Anti-British Xenophobia and Hatred in Ireland

hawley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954855#Comment_117954855

What other loans have we paid off early? The government have been borrowing more and more money every year. Even since the economy stabilized, our debt has gone up by over 50 billion.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954876#Comment_117954876

Which has what to do with the discussion?

We offered to pay this off early and it was repudiated. Giving the lie to any favoritism or warm fuzzy feeling from the British i giving it.

We know the country has debts.

hawley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955026#Comment_117955026

"Ireland did not seek an early repayment of the UK bilateral loan,” the NTMA said in a statement. 

https://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-bailout-repayment-2-5392810-Mar2021/?section=comment#comments

Ash.J.Williams

no petrol bastids

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955060#Comment_117955060

That's great. A simple no nonsense business arrangement.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955097#Comment_117955097

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955026#Comment_117955026

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955060#Comment_117955060

Eh no, it means someone was caught out in a lie.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955431#Comment_117955431

Who was that? The people who discussed it?

I couldn't care less if we offered to repay early or not as I said.

My issue is with those who portray it as some kind of benevolent act by the British. Which we now know it wasn't, it was a hard nosed business loan for which they earned interest, same as any bank or lender.

Beechwoodspark

Having experienced anti Irish extreme discrimination and comments in England on a number of occasions, I have my own views on this

Beechwoodspark

It has ranged from sink estate young wans taking the Mickey out of my Irish - yes Irish - accent and saying po-ta-to

comments such as “does ireland have the internet ? Does ireland have electricity?”

”Irish” being interchangeable with “stupid”

comments such as “England bailed you lot out you owe us”

or “why don’t you lot leave the EU with us”

or “you lot are so annoying we should take you over again”

Tiresome low level anti Irish sentiment basically

to

hardened neo nazi combat 18 tooled up football hooligans overhearing me and my friends accents and an all out street fight (involving plastic garden furniture) on Luton high street with plenty of “f the ira” “fackin paddy bawstids” type roaring and shouting.

we won the fight, by the way 😜

RobMc59

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955537#Comment_117955537

I believed ever line of your post until you claimed to have defeated the `Luton massive`😀

martingriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058210587/anti-british-xenophobia-and-hatred-in-ireland

I am not sure it is as widespread as you think. Each post does not equate to a different person. In relation to British politicans that is at policies that may effect Ireland and yes it does spill outtopeople who vote for them but no more the Irish politics or USA politics.

I say Lowery Mcilroy and the American spectators were been blamed most. In fairness more were saying how good the American golf was

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954561#Comment_117954561

Speak of facts, but talk of pejoratives.

Can you give me a list of examples of Irish 'right-wingers' who are anti-Irish? Are you going to do a Paddy Holohan on us?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955431#Comment_117955431

LOL, classic.

Some people cant help themselves dig a hole to China.

dd973

There's no country called Britain, it's an Archipelago, the English aren't all from Romford as people seem to believe here either.

Do Scousers, Sunderland or Devon people talk like Danny Dyer? A work colleague from Middlesbrough used to be driven up the wall by people talking like Dick Van Dyke to him, it's like talking to someone from Cork in a Nordie or Dublin accent, completely absurd.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117957413#Comment_117957413

Exactly. But the usual angle on these type of 'woe is us' threads is that any criticism of British government activity is 'hating'.

Beechwoodspark

If any of you have lived in England for a significant period, you will almost surely come across anti Irish sentiment.

I noticed it more in the south than the north of England but then again I never lived in north just visited it regularly

i was based in a number of places such as Luton and Enfield and some parts of london /greater london environs

Some of the questions I used to get were designed to passive aggressively denigrate ireland

for example ppl used to say things like does ireland have the internet?

Does ireland have electricity?

is there still food shortages over in ireland?

then of course with brexit this was all ramped up

had an elderly gent say to me one morning in a Greg’s that the English should go back and take over ireland and be done with the whole thing

this type of thing. It is tiresome and wearing on the spirit after a while.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954200#Comment_117954200

Why would the taxpayer be on the hook for an early settlement figure reached by two Central banks?

There was no default involved.

HalloweenJack

I've been reading this thread on and off so apologies if I mention something that's already been addressed. It's more of a list of points that occur to me rather than one cohesive post.

There are many reasons why I am sceptical and wary of anything 'official' coming out of the UK.

Have the UK ever apologised in an official capacity for acts of colonialism (either here or in other places)?

The UK establishment spent centuries trying to extinguish Irish culture and did a pretty decent job at it. They continue to do attempt to do so in Scotland, Wales and NI.

Despite being a "United" Kingdom, the power is held by England so they had to create a British identity (that is overwhelmingly based on English culture, rarely are things from that are uniquely Scottish or Welsh held up as examples of British culture) and convince the rest of us that we are all part of it and shouldn't feel excluded. In theory, it sounds nice but their way of pursuing this inclusivity was anything but.

They still occupy part of Ireland and contributed to favouring one side for a long time. The fact that they don't want to persecute British soldiers who shot their own citizens (regardless of their politics, the victims of British soldiers in NI were British citizens) should be a red flag in this day and age. It sets a precedent that British soldiers can shoot British citizens who are protesting. What kind of country allows its armed forces to kill its own citizens without consequences?

British democracy is not something to aspire to. FPTP means that a party can win 40%-odd percent of the vote and have an 80 seat majority whereas the system in Scotland is designed to avoid a majority while NI has guaranteed power-sharing. The Brexit referendum should also have been handled a lot better.

The British education system seems to present a sanitised version of history. Cromwell is championed and I have met quite a few English people who have little to no understanding of the situation in Ireland. Wasn't there a fairly-recent NI secretary who had no idea about the inter-community problems that were going to be part of her portfolio?

British society seems to be quite unfair and fractured. I don't think it is something we should emulate or applaud. The power still wielded by the British elite and the existence of a monarchy in modern society (in any country, btw) is infuriating. Owing to our history, I think Irish people tend to empathise with the opprssed and the underdogs and that simply doesn't stack up with how the UK has been ruled.

I do enjoy seeing this English/British exceptionalism fall flat on its face, much as I do with any country that behaves similarly (the USA, France's dealings in Africa).

Looking through history and looking at how this particular British administration behaves, I think there is plenty of reason for Irish people in particular to be wary of the British estbalishment and its pursuits as it rarely has been in the interests of Ireland and when it has, it has only been because they benefitted as well.

My problems with British society and what the UK represents are all do with the establishment and its official structures. I have quite a few English friends and, as with anyone, I'll give people from there a chance to get to know them. I don't dismiss anything and everything that is English/British without thinking about it.

Of course, there are some Irish people who will blindly hate the English/British but its nowhere near as bad as the OP makes out. From reading through this thread, a lot of the complaining in this regard reminds me of Israeli defenders labelling any criticism of Israeli policy as 'anti-semitic', i.e. simplistic, emotive and a great way to distract without addressing the criticism and put the other person on the back foot.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117957675#Comment_117957675

You do realise Scotland and Wales have devolved power (NI too) ...

HalloweenJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117957746#Comment_117957746

Yes, I am well aware of that. Its just bizarre that so many different systems are in place but the one that benefits England the most is used for GEs.

ancapailldorcha

Despite being a "United" Kingdom, the power is held by England so they had to create a British identity (that is overwhelmingly based on English culture, rarely are things from that are uniquely Scottish or Welsh held up as examples of British culture) and convince the rest of us that we are all part of it and shouldn't feel excluded. In theory, it sounds nice but their way of pursuing this inclusivity was anything but.

This is the key point. There isn't really a British identity outside England. Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish all identify as Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish for the most part. The British identity is fading in England quite notably as well according to census results. Heck, it's not even legally possible to formally identify as Black English FFS.

Just as Yugoslavia could endure Bosniak and Croat nationalism but ended due to Serbian nationalism, so too will English nationalism end the UK. Brexit is just the first step towards the end of the union.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117957746#Comment_117957746

Seriously? You respond to a post which took a lot of time to write with this nothing one-liner? The administrations barely have any real power and the Scottish one has been majority separatist for years and is yet powerless to act on that mandate.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117957966#Comment_117957966

yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117957552#Comment_117957552

if the money is borrowed on a fixed rate basis, then early penalties apply. If you don't want penalties, then you pay higher interest rates. Don't forget, the British government would be borrowing the money, so they would need to ensure their cost of borrowing is overed.

That's what the Irish government wanted, it is what they agreed to and they did not ask to cut the term short. Why would they, when they were borrowing money at a very low rate.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117957675#Comment_117957675

aah, the "Chat".

I'm always reminded of Matthew 7.5 when I read things like this.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955060#Comment_117955060

Classic doublespeak from the NTMA there. Of course they didn't formally make an offer, they sounded it out and satisfied themselves that such an offer would not be accepted. It was a businesslike arrangment all right, but it wasn't between businesses it was between states and it would have been embarrassing for both sides if a formal offer had been made and then refused.

Exactly the same situation as Michael D and Partitionfest up north. Heads of state decline to attend events all the time, you just don't hear about it because anyone who has half a clue makes feelers diplomatically / through backchannels beforehand and avoids the embarrassment of issuing an invitation which may not be accepted.

Also, fixed rate or not it's common for lenders to accept early settlement offers at a discount. Ironically, the fact that Ireland was no longer a default risk meant that there was no benefit in the UK "getting their money in their hand" and they could hold out for the full sum with no risk.

That's fine. Because it was a business arrangement, not the act of charity some paint it as. But really, in some ways the worst thing we could have done was accept a penny off them - we didn't need it (given IMF and EU loans) and it's been used as a stick to beat our nation with ever since.

HalloweenJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958094#Comment_117958094

Care to add more to that?

I looked up Matthew 7:5 there and it seems to be to do with hypocrites. Care to enlighten us on why you think my post was hypocritical?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958249#Comment_117958249

not so much the hypocrite bit, but the Irish certainly need to cast out the beam of their own eye.

I mean, this country quite clearly voted for a change from Fine Gael or Fine Fail by giving the majoirty of the popular vote to SF, so intead the people got Fine Fail and Fine Gael, but apparantly FPTP is undemocratic.

And don't give me this crap about sanitised versions of history, outside of North Korea, there is probably no country that gives a more sanitised version of its own history than Ireland. When the Irish accept their own part in the famine, or the partition of Ireland, then come back to me.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958335#Comment_117958335

Laughable, in modern history the Brits are second only to the Nazis, but are hailed as conquering heroes. Concentration camps, genocide, illegal chemical attacks, all used by the Brits before Hitler was ever heard of. The Nazis just did it in a shorter timescale

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958335#Comment_117958335

The combination of FF/FG/Greens got over 50% of the vote. This is what Preferential voting is good at. It means a block can split into different sections as suits their needs without reducing the power of the block as a whole. It allows you to have multiple parties instead of just 2 serious parties, if we had FPTP then our party system would have been different and we would have 2 parties instead of the not Sinn Fein vote being split. I mean I don't like the results but I am not going to claim having a government with over 50% of first preference votes represented is not democratic.

HalloweenJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958335#Comment_117958335

SF got 24.5% of the vote. FG got 20.9% and FF 22.2%. In terms of seats, it was SF 23%, FF 23% and FG 22%. FG and FF together got 43.1% of the vote and 45% of the seats. They needed the Greens (7.1% of the vote and 8% of the seats) to form a government that represents 50.2% of the votes and 53% of the seats. In 2019, the Tories got 43.6% of the vote and 56.2% of the seats. Which one seems more democratic to you?

As for history, the partition of Ireland is a direct result of the UK's centuries of intervention in Ireland as it did its best to subdue the local population. If it weren't for the plantations and colonisation, there wouldn't be two separate communities up North.