Help with Alcohol Addiction

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: Alcohol Addiction Treatment.

Whydoidonow999

Sorry to hijack this post, please move it to a new thread if necessary. But I think a lot of people on this thread might be able to help me.

I am so desperately in the throws of alcoholism, it is horrific, but I just can't seem to stop. I did cancel my online order this morning so at least no drink is coming today.

I was always a heavy drink in my 20s, if I'm honest even in my teen years too. I grew up in an alcoholic environment and started drinking when I was about 13, pretty easy to get away with when the adults are too drunk to notice, thankfully I get on very well with my mam now, she doesn't really drink anymore, I don't think she was actually an alcoholic just in a very bad situation with an abusive man (mostly control/ psychological) it really was not a nice place to grow up. But since I hit the 30s it has spiraled out of all control. If I start drinking I just don't stop for days!!

I have had periods of sobriety, but never for more than 2 months (apart from when I was in a treatment centre). I will say overall I think I have been sober more than drunk for 2021, which for me is a big improvement after the chaos of what was 2020.

It's going to take everything from me, then it will take me.

I have a good life, I've an amazing husband I've absolutely no clue why he stays with me, he says it's because he remembers me before the drink took hold. Also he thinks I have depression, or anxiety, he even said bi-polar once or twice. I don't think I am any of those things, but maybe I should go to my doctor. I've recently got a new job which I enjoy and has limited my drinking as I can't drink while working which is good.

What set off this recent relapse was a miscarriage which really devastated me. But from what I've learnt over the past two years I should have been able to cope better. Everyone keeps saying did you not get "tools" in treatment. I did and but it's not always easy to use them, but I haven't really found them useful. They don't give you a list of things leaving.

I know this will only work if I do it for myself, but the guilt I have over what my husband is going through is huge. I always think when I get the drink this time I will be able to stop and he won't notice. That might work for a day or two but it will usually end in me being locked and probably passed out in the bed, then I'll just drink and drink.

I do go to AA and it is helpful but then I'll relapse and be too embarrassed to go back. It's only on once a week where I live too which probably isn't enough. I'm just desperate, but clearly not desperate enough to stop. My danger zone will be towards the end of the week when I convince myself it will be different this time. It won't be but you'd be shocked at how persuasive that insidious little voice in my head is.

Can anyone offer me a sliver of hope that I will beat this?

There is always hope. People have pulled it together from positions you might even judge as being bother "better" and "worse" than yours. Other people don't and the alcohol "takes them" to use your words. So hope should not be false hope but it should be realistic hope. People do get this bad - many people get worse and have their health or family life or criminal records destroyed before they start on the path to recovery - and such people do get better all the time - and you absolutely can be one of those people.

There is reams of advice and support I have given in the past to people with alcohol problems. But there comes a point where the issue reaches a level of severity that I do not feel comfortable giving amateur armchair advice any more. You say above that it will take everything from you and then "take you". Judging by your previous thread in your posting history it already did - you were just lucky to survive it when it did. But I read your previous post. And let's be real. Alcohol already took you. And you survived that.

You have been in and out of Support Groups so you have probably come across the saying that "You can not think yourself into right action - you have to act your way into right thinking"? I reckon this is the point you are at now. All the things you are saying "maybe I should" - I would suggest you drop the "maybe". When you are thinking "maybe I should talk with my doctor" or "maybe I should talk with my husband" or "maybe I should go back to my support group" and so on - there is no maybe. You need to do all of that and more.

You should also recognise the delusion behind the "Maybe he won't notice if I only drink a little and then stop" story you tell yourself. Alcohol smells. Speech slurs. We do not normally notice this ourselves when we drink - but it takes almost no alcohol at all before it becomes noticeable to people that we have been drinking. Especially people very close to us. It comes out of our very pores when we drink. It is a complete delusion - so recognise the fact that the moment you start he is going to know.

As for general advice I would give from my armchair as an amateur? Probably stuff you have heard before but let's try all the same:

1) Talk with your doctor. Talk with several doctors in fact if you can. Preferably diverse doctors who studied in different places. "Second Opinions" are not worth much if all the doctors went to the same University around the same time. That is not much better than one opinion. Go to an older doctor, a younger doctor, a foreign doctor. Get a real diversity of opinion if you can. Stick with the doctors that a) make you feel comfortable and b) make you feel like they are treating your case with due diligence and respect.

2) Talk with your husband. Be forthright with your feelings of shame and embarrassment - with your delusion that you could ever pull the wool over his eyes and only drink enough that he would not notice - and your need to get support here. Show him this thread even and let him read it. And remember "love" is not a balance sheet. You can feel gratitude for the support he gives you but do not feel shame or embarrassment or like you are in debt to that support. That is not how love works. It works by being there when we need it - and us reciprocating when we ourselves are needed.

3) Talk to The Miscarriage Association of Ireland and other support groups for women in Ireland and Women's health groups. There is no "Should have been able to cope better" when it comes to these thing in our life. Everyone copes different. There is no "should" there is no "right" or "wrong". A great phrase I heard recently is "The worst thing that has ever happened to you - is the worst thing that has ever happened to you". In other words whatever your biggest struggle is/was in life - that is your reality. And the biggest pain and trauma we feel is exactly that. Thinking we "should cope better" is just applying unwarranted guilt to our reality. There is absolutely no reason you "should" cope either well or badly with a situation like that. The important think is that you cope - in the end - and find your individual path to doing so. How other mights have coped better or worse - is irrelevant. How other people might be going through things you feel are worse or more worthy of nothing being able to cope - is irrelevant. This is your reality and just like everyone else you need to learn to cope with what that reality throws at you. We are not born with a universal coping mechanism. We learn it when we need to. Think of it like this. Imagine you caught the flu and after said "Man my immune system should have been better than to catch that flu". That is not how the immune system works. It has to catch the flu before it learns how to cope with that flu (which is what we mean when we say you acquire an immunity). You were not born immune to measels. Your body had to be hit with it - and it learned to cope with it. The same is true of trauma like miscarriage. You get hit with it - and you learn to cope with it. And like a disease you might take shorter or longer than others to build up that coping. But it is wrong to berate yourself retrospectively for this. How you cope with it will be individual for you. But there are many ways. For example my sister who lost a baby relatively early in the pregnancy - but late enough that there was identifiable remains - gave a name and had a funeral for the lost child. A lot of women do not do this. But a lot of those who do - say it brings a lot of closure and also support from those who attend the funeral too. Did you have a funeral? Would you consider it?

4) Focus on learning your "triggers" for what makes you want to drink and learn to undermine them. This varies for everyone. It can be certain times of day. Certain locations. Certain events. Certain points in their routine (random example: one alcoholic I knew did not even think of drink for most days of the week but it was the feeling of finishing work on a Friday that suddenly flooded him with the desire to go to the supermarket and load up on wine bottles. He simply did not spare alcohol a thought at any other time. But he would destroy himself completely of a Friday night and couldn't not). Whatever your trigger(s) are - figure out how to beat them. Imagine them like an enemy in a game and you have to make the right moves on the board to beat that enemy. Ask yourself "If this alcohol demon was a real thinking person - how could I play this to beat him, trick him, undermine him, deflect him - what moves can I make that screw his game up?". So if it is a certain location - obviously be in a completely different location. If it is (like my friend above) being alone at home on a Friday night - then simply do not be alone or at home on a Friday night. If it is walking into a supermarket to do the shopping - get someone else to do the shopping. Another person I knew only ever wanted to drink when home alone - so when leaving work on days when she would be home alone she did not go home. Instead she took a book up howth head or into the park and just read until it was dark and then walked home - had fish and chips for dinner on the way - and fell straight into bed once they got home. These are just examples - but what you do should be specific to your triggers and undermining them.And so on and so on and so on.

5) Remember nature abhors a vacuum. One of the biggest mistakes alcoholics make is to delete alcohol from their life and not replace it with anything else. That leaves a vacuum. Something has to fill that vacuum. And more often than not the vacuum is filled by alcohol rushing back in. You need to fill the gap in your life where alcohol is removed with other things that bring you challenge and meaning. Preferably something that brings humility and pride at the same time - and self growth too. I very often recommend (especially to women) Brazilian Jujitsu for this. But it could be anything really. Even taking up running or playing pokemon go on a phone - as ridiculous as that sounds - can be it. And in fact there are some great communities on both (Look up an APP called Strava for example for running and see the "groups" feature there). Focussed repetitive tasks can also be useful. Strangely I find throwing oneself into learning "close up magic" (Card tricks and coin tricks specifically) can be hugely beneficial in this regard. They are almost a form of meditation and repetition and focus in a way - and the great thing is coins and cards are everywhere so one can always use it.

6) Try and identify what alcohol does bring you that is positive. After all if it was 100% negative only from the first moment until the last - you probably would be finding it easier to stop. But at some point in the process you want it - you want to do it - so what is driving that? Identify the good feelings and the positives and the reasons you feel motivated to drink. And then try to identify things in the real world that could bring you those same benefits / pleasures instead of alcohol but without the harmful effects. If something is missing in your life that alcohol is substituting for - then you need to re-substitute for that.

7) Listen to some inspirational conversations or talks when you can. Not just about addiction and addiction recovery - but just in general. Just because it is recent in my head I would suggest you start with a listen to Joe Rogan talk to Amanda Knox this week. There is a lot in there about "blame" and "guilt" and rising above challenges in your life - and about taking a "stoic" approach to things (meaning identifying what you can control over what you can not). Although the 3 hour interview has little to nothing to do with alcohol or alcohol addiction I would be very surprised if you did not hear a lot in that talk that you can apply to your own life. Rogan recently also had a guest on who specifically works with addictions too (Anne Lembke). And if you want to learn more about Stoicism you could do worse than when Rogan talked to Derren Brown. I would also recommend the Jokko Podcast number 299 with comedian Theo Von which again has a lot in it that I think you will find applicable to you even though it has nothing to do with alcohol addiction really. The Blindboy podcasts on mental health are not a bad listen either. There will be at least some stuff there you find useful. Especially where he talks about how no one "has their sht together" really. We often feel guilt because we think other people "have it together" when we do not. But in fact there is no such thing. Rather it is a state of affairs we have to work constantly on and maintain. As the song says "Running to Stand Still" is a way of looking at it. So rather than feel bad because we do not "have it together" we realise that "having it together" is an ongoing project we all have to do all the time.

8) Read. There is a non-drinkers forum on boards. There are other forums in Ireland and worldwide where people with drinking issues congregate. Like AA online. Read some books on addiction and recovery. Read books on motivation too. Although it is a children's book I would even recommend starting with "The Warrior Kid" by Jokko Willink. "Happy" by Derren Brown is not bad either. "Whereever you go there you are" is a nice one to start with in terms of personal calm and meditation.

9) Look into other groups other than AA. Not saying anything bad about AA per se - but just know that there are very varied options out there. Think of support groups like you would think of food. Just because fruit is good - fruit is not all there is in the world and food is very varied and can be had in all kinds of very different ways. Addiction support groups are similar. They vary a hell of a lot and if one is not really working for you - that absolutely does not mean other ones wont be. You might be surprised just how varied they can be. Try them all.

10) Remember we all fall on our paths in life. Not just in addiction but in everything. For example a person committed to their physical health through excercise might commit to getting up every morning to work out or run. But some morning they are going to hit the snooze button and go back asleep and not do it. Or they are going to break into the Mars Bars and Pringles and stay on the couch. We all fall. So there is no shame or guilt in this. The true measure of character is having fallen - do you get back up and keep going? So when you write above that you are embarrassed to go back to AA because you fell off the wagon - the Feck That! Everyone in that AA room likely fell on their path too at some point. So nothing to be embarrassed about. In fact you should focus on the positives of having fallen. It brings you an actual connection with the people in that AA room. Because you know what they are going through - they know what you are going through. Do not look at your falling therefore as something to be shamed about - but rather as something that gives you the gift of a true empathic connection of full understanding with the people in that room. It makes you one of them - and them one of you. Cherish that - get up and keep walking your path and struggling your struggle - and tell yourself "When someone else in my group falls I will use my feelings of having fallen myself to know just what that person needs and feels - and I will draw on that to make both me and them a better person for it". It is a wonderful paradox that falling does not make you weak or mean you are weak - but getting back up from the fall and walking on regardless does make you strong and mean you are strong.

Whydoidonow999

Wow taxahcruel. Thank you for such an amazing response! I'll try to respond:

" And let's be real. Alcohol already took you. And you survived that." - I suppose I would more so think it got very close to taking me. A LOT of alcoholics try to commit suicides, in the last 6 months in local groups 2 women both under 25 have taken their own lives. The saying in AA is "It will take everything from you, then it will come back and take you"

"You can not think yourself into right action - you have to act your way into right thinking"? - No I hadn't heard this one but it makes a lot of sense.

"Maybe he won't notice if I only drink a little and then stop" - Oh I know this is a complete delusion! I know he knows the second I've taken a drink. When my mam was a very heavy drinker I would know straight away even on the phone.

"Alcohol smells." - you'd be surprised how many alcoholics believe the urban myth that vodka doesn't smell. It does, a lot perhaps it can be covered up a bit easier with a strong scented mixer but you can still smell alcohol on the breath.

1) "Talk with your doctor. Talk with several doctors in fact if you can." - I will talk with my own GP again, she really is fantastic. I would be reluctant to try another doctor, so many people I know who went to GPs about addiction were meet with unkind, hurtful, extremely outdated and advice that really had the opposite effect. A lot of people including doctors still think addiction is a choice. I can 100% say I didn't say I would love it be an alcoholic when I am older. The same as an obese person who has been to slimming world for the last 10 years on and off didn't say they want to be over weight they just can't keep away from over eating. It's just there is far less stigma about it, there is some but a lot less.

2) "Talk with your husband." - I did talk with him yesterday. I told him about the order I had placed but that it was cancelled. I told him how I was feeling and that I am trying. I think he can see that. I've been sober a lot more than I've been drunk in 2021 but even the 1/2 day relapses have to be awful for him.

3) "Talk to The Miscarriage Association of Ireland" . "There is no "Should have been able to cope better" when it comes to these thing in our life." - No and I do know everyone copes differently. But to use your example of getting the flu and saying my immune system should have been better. I wouldn't blame my immune system for getting the flu, just like I don't blame my brain for grieving, but in both situations throwing a load of alcohol into me will not be helpful. That's what I meant by I should have coped better, I shouldn't have drank.

4) Focus on learning your "triggers" - some very good advice there. Mine would be now towards the end of the week. I'm not exactly sure what I can do/ where I could go until my husband is home from work.

5) Remember nature abhors a vacuum. - Well it was a vacuum that alcohol filled in the 1st place. I was going 100mph with travel/ study/ marriage/ more travel. Then it all just stopped. I'm not saying I don't go anywhere anymore but life abruptly turned into a place with not much to look forward to. I do have a good life, I just need to learn to be content with it and that drink isn't the answer.

6) "Try and identify what alcohol does bring you that is positive." - I am under the false illusion that alcohol will bring excitement. Sometimes it's to forget, or make something easier to deal with, on that one it usually has the opposite effect.

7) Listen to some inspirational conversations or talks when you can. - I'll look those up. Thanks.

8) Read. There is a non-drinkers forum on boards. - I looked there before I was under the impression it was for people who were not, non drinkers because of alcoholism.

9) "Look into other groups other than AA." - I have looked up SMART recovery but it is over an hours drive away and that isn't really an option right now due to being off the road. I do like my AA group here, and a woman last night offered me her number and said reach out anytime. I'm awful at doing that. I feel like I am bothering the person, but they do keep reminding us "new comers" it helps them more than them when we reach out. It reminds them of where they came from.

10) "Remember we all fall on our paths in life." - I know and after I shared last night a lot of people said well done for coming back/ just keep coming back. Another one they love to say if you keep coming to meetings even if you don't get AA, AA will get you. A bit like you said up there about acting my way into the right way of thinking. I just don't want to have to keep picking myself back up, I want to stay upright!!

I've tried to just be honest with myself in responding to you. Thank you those questions actually helped me see a lot into how I am thinking right now.

@Whydoidonow999

@Whydoidonow999 wrote:

it can be covered up a bit easier with a strong scented mixer but you can still smell alcohol on the breath.

Not just the breath though. I think what a lot of drinkers forget is that regardless of what the drink might smell like in the glass or on the breath - and sure vodka is a little better on the breath than, say, whisky for example - we lose metabolised alcohol through our sweat after drinking and that smell is pretty much always the same. You can do everything you want to hide the smell on your breath. But the "smell of an alcoholic" is made up of a lot more than that.

@Whydoidonow999 wrote:

GPs about addiction were meet with unkind, hurtful, extremely outdated and advice

Doctors are no different to any other public facing worker like the supermarket or McDonalds. You get good ones and bad ones. I always recommend people get second opinions where possible from doctors who are very different to each other - with backgrounds as different as possible. So if my doctor was Young, Female and Irish - I might seek another doctor who is old, Male, and Indian. If you get 10 doctors who all went to university together, you are nearly getting one opinion not 10. But yes when going to doctors (assuming we can afford to visit many, its not cheap!) never be afraid to get up and walk out telling them their service or their attitude stinks - and look for another doctor. If you have any kind of long term issue - including addiction - then you have to have a doctor you can relate with. Simple as that. This short video is worth a watch: youtube.com/watch?v=Y0PWqL6HvaY

@Whydoidonow999 wrote:

I'm not exactly sure what I can do/ where I could go until my husband is home from work.

I would say you are lucky then. There are many triggers that are harder to beat and undermine. You can take hope from the fact that yours is in fact one of the easier ones. Why?

Well because while you say you can not imagine what you can do or where you can go - the fact is there are 100s if not 1000s of answers to that. Despite Covid there still exists many many options. There are outlets and hobbies in theirs 100s you could look into here. You just have to be willing to do one or more of them.

And if you are not sure what you will like then get someone to impartially compile a list of them and just try them all anyway. You will be shocked truly what you find out you enjoy that you never expected you would enjoy. An example from my own life recently - through a friend I happened to spend a weekend where I had to get on a horse and learn to ride. I never did it before. But he wanted to go camping and he decided we would go by horse. I was shocked about how instantly I was bitten by the bug and now learning horse riding is one of my current top hobbies. And if someone had suggested it to me I would have had no concept whatsoever I would have enjoyed it. I simply had no idea I would love horse riding as much as it turns out I do. Or even the reasons why I do. You'd be surprised what I like about it - its not the things that would first jump to mind when you think horse riding.

So try things - and something will find you even if you do not think you can find it. There are 100s of things you could do or try here. Just to illustrate how many there are I am going to take a deep breath right now and type all the ones that come to mind before I need to take another breath starting now: Horse riding, fishing, guitar, marital arts, swimming, running, pokemon go, dog walking, community help of old people, sitting in the library reading, volunteer work, campaigning for a politician door to door, meditation on the beach, cookery courses, that course I bought for my dad recently on how to keep bees.

That was one breath :) I could go on for hours. Spend some time on meetup.com too for example and see all the things going on in your area. Find out what the others in AA are doing with their time and see if they want you to join them. All in all if your main trigger is being home alone - then not being home is one of the easiest things in the world to do. Even if it just means you go out the door and just walk - and keep walking until it is time to turn around and walk back. Even that is "job done" is it not?

Not being alone can be quite easy too. But you identified "excitement" as being one of the things missing you think alcohol substitutes for. Well many of the things I list above or could have listed are exciting. Find one that excites you. For me it is Brazilian Jujitsu because unlike many martial arts you are not just standing there going through motions and "forms" but you are most of the time sparring actual combat against a real person. I've been doing it over 10 years - it's still exciting when you are squaring off against a real person and you want to take them down as much as they do you. Especially if you plan to go into any kind of actual competition. Even if you know you suck and are going out in the first round - the excitment of the day coming, arriving, and then happening is unparalleled.

Galloping on the back of a horse is exciting as hell too :)

@Whydoidonow999 wrote:

I do have a good life, I just need to learn to be content with it

A lot of people - professionals and people in the armchair like Blindboy I mentioned - do speak about how important it is to find meaning in life and in everything you do. In fact on more serious notes people who talk about the Jews who survived the concentration camps - rather than the ones who succumbed to the horror and died or worse - were the ones who managed to find meaning in their turmoil there. Meaning is a lot. Blindboy speaks of how he finds meaning in even cooking his evening meal. He builds up a whole "setup, conflict, resolution" narrative around it - about becomming hungry, going to the store, getting the food, preparing the food, having the food. We can find meaning in the most mundane things if we know how. And that can be a great fuel for being "content" with our lot in life.

Other people on the other side of that coin struggle to find contentment and their solution is different but equally valid. They never settle for what they have but look for more. They go back to college or start a business or set up challenges in their life to over come. And they are ever striving. The happiest person I know in my life - one of my girlfriends - works mainly in the area of law. But while she does work sometimes she has mostly set her life on an eternal path of academia. So she is always studying and lecturing and is always busy and focused. "Contentment" is not something that drives her at all. Contentment would probably kill her off. Like it might be doing to you.

Joe Rogan talks a lot about his mental health demons and he like you has identified being "content" with life as being a source of many of those demons. The way he deals with it is he sets up physical turmoil in his life. Mainly through physical exercise and martial arts. But he basically works out to the point of almost torturing himself - and he says that everything in his life after that is easy. He thinks without challenge and turmoil in his life he turns to addiction and depression. So what he does is he controls that narrative and he sets up his own turmoil and challenges and then meets them.

So a lot of people deal with what you are talking about here in very varied and diverse ways! There is no one path that works for everyone - but there is one or more paths that will work for you. You just need to walk them all until you find one of the ones that fit. Again Jujitsu brings a lot for me here. It magically brings contentment and lack of contentment. It is an amazing feeling when you learn a new move or take someone down in a new way. But you can never rest back contented because the next person who comes along - even someone several belts below you - can suddenly upend your world and leave you wondering what the hell just happened. It brings a lot of pride when you do well - but it almost always slaps you down with wonderful humility too. And humility is a good thing. A lot of people, perhaps even yourself, suffer from shame and low self esteem. These things are similar to humility in some ways but are a much more potentially toxic version of it. Replacing shame and self hatred or low self esteem - with humility - is more amazing than my limited ability with words can describe.

Give this a read for me if you have time... it is short......: https://samharris.org/the-pleasures-of-drowning/

@Whydoidonow999 wrote:

I looked there before I was under the impression it was for people who were not, non drinkers because of alcoholism.

You are right to a point in that they do not spend their time talking about alcoholism or making it about alcoholics. The forum is about how they are living their life without alcohol - in a society that is often built around alcohol. I am a member of atheist Ireland for example. We do not sit around the whole time talking about how there is no god. Rather we meet up and discuss living life without a god in a society that pre-dominently believes there is one. And in fact most of the things we discuss when we meet up - we barely if ever even mention god or god belief at all. We are united by our lack of god belief - but how we got to that place is irrelevant when we meet.

In the same way - in other words - if you are turning to a life and exploring a life without alcohol the forum is likely a great resource on how people are doing that and what's out there. You just kind of leave the alcoholism at the door and the community in there are people who are living without alcohol "full stop" - the reasons they are doing so (including alcoholism) are left aside. There will likely be abstaining alcoholics in there. There will be people who just do not like alcohol or want it in their lives too. So you are united by a lack of alcohol rather than by a reason for lacking alcohol. If that makes sense. So do not write it off as a useful tool because you mistakenly believe you are not a "fit" for the forum.

At least that is the impression I got when I was there briefly. I hope I am not misrepresenting their goals there. But there are other forums too around the net too. Not just theirs.

@Whydoidonow999 wrote:

I just don't want to have to keep picking myself back up, I want to stay upright!!

I get that. Part of me wants that in my own life too. But then I realise that that likely is not a healthy way to be. As I said we all fall on our paths. Whether our path is combating a deep addiction like yours - or our path is something that is relatively smaller like to over come procrastination - or to follow a fitness or diet regime - or to be a good parent - or anything else.

We all fall. Often many times. As the father in the movie Batman said to Bruce Wayne as a child "Why do we fall Bruce? It is the only way we can learn to pick ourselves back up again". Watch a small child play with something sometime - and how many times they fail before they "get it". Failure is a part of their growth. I think the children over-protected from failure are more likely to turn out dysfunctional in some way. I am not a fan, for example, of that "everyone gets a medal" mentality on modern sports days :) I think children need to fail - see the winner get the medal - and go home empty handed themselves sometimes.

The expectation to "stay upright" is unrealistic and unhealthy and unhelpful. It is what I would call an "ideal" and ideals are something that we should strive towards while we fully expect to never reach. I am atheist but I would draw on Christianity as an example here. Christians walk a path of trying to be like Jesus. But they know Jesus is "perfect" and they can never be like him because humans are flawed. But the Christian path in life is to emulate him all the same. It is an "ideal" they know they will never reach - but they are admonished to strive for all the same.

So yes strive towards the ideal of staying "upright" all you can. That is the right path and goal to have. But do so knowing that it is an "ideal" and the best you can do is get as close to that ideal as possible. And the true measure of strength of character, the true attribute to be proud of, is what you do when you stumble and fall. Do you lie there and wallow in it? Or do you get up - brush yourself down - maybe even find a way to laugh at yourself and your follow (laughing at ourselves can be a very healthy thing) and then say "Right - back to it then!" and continue on?

I would rather fall 1000 times and get up and keep going - than fall once and wallow in it myself. I know which "me" I would be most proud of given the choice between the two. And I would not be the person I am today - and have the pride and humility in myself I do today - were it not for the falls. The falls in my physical and health regimes. The falls in my attempts to be an empathic and caring and open human being. The falls in my goal to be a caring and loving and calm parent. The falls in my goals to be a good partner in my relationship. I fall and fail in every part of my life. And that is a source of strength and growth that I would not be without. I would be a lesser person without my falls. It is quite likely you would be too. So suck them up - and let them make you stronger for both yourself and the people in places like AA who are going through the same things you are.

So next time - if it happens - you wake up from a bender then "hate the sin not the sinner" as the Christians say again. Hate the fall you just had and the fact you drank again - but then love yourself and stand up and say "I am stronger for this now lets get back to the fight!".

And it will be a fight. I have my own demons (not alcohol) so I know this too. These days I am on top of them almost all of the time. But I remember a phrase used by a homosexual in America during their fight for rights where they said "They tried to bury us - but they did not realise we were seeds". Our demons are like that. We can bury them and we should. But they are seeds and we need to watch them to cut them back like the toxic weeds they are when they try to grow.

The analogy I use for demons like you and I have is to Diabetes. A person with Diabetes can live a completely normal 100% healthy life like anyone else. But they need constant vigilance to do so. And they always will. They have to constantly check in with themselves - check their diet - check their blood values. And when they see things going awry they have to correct for that. And that battle will never end. But it gets easier and they get more competent at it and much of it becomes "habit".

The same is true for us. We have that "hope" you talk of in you first post. We can bury are demons and we can get very good and comfortable and competent at checking on them. I check myself automatically 4 or 5 times a day. And we can live a completely normal healthy happy content life. And doing so gets easier the better we get at it and the longer we do it.

But the fact still remains - we have to constantly check in and put the work in for that. And we likely always will for the rest of our lives until our last day. The moment we take our eye off the ball for too long - just like a diabetic who simply decided to stop checking their levels or watching the food they eat - the demons will make a move.

SnrInfant

I am the same as you. I find the nights my husband works late, I crack open the bottle of wine, even after promising him I won't :(

With me, my trigger is boredom / laziness. I tell myself every night, I'll run on my treadmill or go for a walk. But the minute I go into the shop for milk, bread etc. I grab a bottle of wine, despite telling myself I won't. I am my own worst enemy and my husband is at his wits end with me.

I have no advise, but I wanted to let you know that you're not alone.

Yeah one of the things I always tell someone who is trying to get out of the house to avoid alcohol triggers is - where possible - never ever ever bring money or any way to obtain money.

Otherwise the whim of dropping into the shop/pub is always there as an option.

silver2020

I's second Smart Recovery - most of their meeting are online. they have a different philosophy to AA and I think its more empowering.

GP - definitely, but be brutally honest. There is a medication that you can get to stop the cravings.

The main question I'd ask is if the alcohol is a way of self medication for another issue - that can be anxiety or depression or anything including menopause. The reason for drinking can change - it may have been a particular event 20 years ago, but its something else now - your mind tells you the alcohol is the medication for all ills, so donlt look to focus on what one course there is.

A GP referral to a psychiatrist may be helpful. Giving the GP permission to talk to your husband can be another good move. He can then have a private appointment and spill out everything - warts and all. A good gp will have seen it all many times and will sue their knowledge to know where to direct you.

As for the husband - yep, he'll remember the good days and is probably a very positive type. So he knows the good days can come back and will be particularly positive if he sees you doing something about it. Remember, in a way alcohol dependency is a disease / illness - so you can get angry at that, but not the person who has it.

Whydoidonow999

taxAHcruel - a lot of fantastic advice again there. You sound like you've been through this with someone before. I'll have to read it all again later.

SnrInfant - boredom was a big issue is a big issue of a lot of people. But if like me you have that tendency I'd try cut back now while it still hasn't really taken a hold. I always liked a few glasses of wine most evening. Was the party girl and always up for going out. You would not believe how quickly it escalated from there, they say it escalates in women faster but I don't know. I also think if it's in you it's in you but I've nothing factual to back that up. Just my own story and listening to others. Even in my 20s when it wasn't a "problem" I only really went out at the weekends I did start to question my drinking. I now know that if you are questioning your drinking you probably know there is something wrong, I did. I just wouldn't admit it. It's so engrained in this country to celebrate/ commiserate/ mark everything with a drink that it's "normal" but it really isn't. Like my family would always supply beer/ wine at communions etc, my husbands family don't because there is no need it is a celebration for a child.

silver2020 - I'll try one online. I did a lot of AA on zoom but I think one of the things I like about it now is actually meeting and getting to know people. It's a very rural area I've moved to when I got married and I don't know anyone outside my husbands family, made work friends along the way but nothing that stuck post work.

I definitely agree with alcohol being the medication for everything, being my mentality. From the age of 12/13 my step dad was very cruel/ abusive and my mam would let me have a few drinks in the evening. When I was 15 they got into a huge fight and he kicked us out of the house for the night, she bought us a fair wack of drink and we booked into a hotel, still managed school the next day! For me it was very normal to reach for a drink for anything, expected nearly, sure that's just what you did.

Despite still drinking (relapsing) I have faced a fair few of my demons from my past. Well I think I have. I don't want to get into much here, but from a few weeks old I had a very very disruptive life. Which lead to being allowed to drink from an early age in the house, started clubbing age 15. Lots of awful things happened which built up a lot of hurt and anger which I bottled up. It also lead to a very slanted view on what was normal/ acceptable.

Yup, my husband would be a positive guy. Or well very level. He comes from a very stable background and is rooted in himself and who he is. I know I wasn't around but from how he is, what he has said and the fact I know his parents/ siblings I think he had a very "normal" childhood which really has stood to him.

It's so engrained in this country to celebrate/ commiserate/ mark everything with a drink that it's "normal" but it really isn't.

Except for the fact it is not funny - it is funny - that one of the things that "little voice" likes to do inside alcoholics is wait for something like 6 months or 12 months off drinking. Some kind of anniversary. Then the little voice pops up to say "Well done on staying off the drink for a full year. You deserve to celebrate. You deserve - a drink!".

How many alcoholics have fallen right back off the wagon I wonder - because they felt they deserved a treat for being off the alcohol and that treat was alcohol. I've stayed off the alcohol so I deserve a little pint to celebrate.

The "little voice" you mentioned in the OP is seriously devious and good at it's job. "persuasive that insidious" you called it. It is all that and more. I have a similar voice for my own demons and I have learned through things like Mindfulness Meditation to kind of personify it and then deride it or laugh at it. Like an old friend I do not really respect - but still have some kind of side fondness for - but still don't want them around.

So sometimes I personify it and just pour my contempt on it. Other times I personify it and just laugh at it in my mind in a kind of "aww shucks its you again huh - man the cross I have to bear putting up with you showing up - anyway feck off on your way now" way. But in Mindfulness meditation rather than try to delete bad thoughts or feelings or compulsions you kind of train yourself to notice them - acknowledge them - and then send them on their way.

Whydoidonow999

"How many alcoholics have fallen right back off the wagon I wonder - because they felt they deserved a treat for being off the alcohol and that treat was alcohol. I've stayed off the alcohol so I deserve a little pint to celebrate."

Again my knowledge is only antidotal but I have heard the same story from different people plenty of time. I'm not sure it's usually many think they deserve a pint. It is that they are under the false impression that because they have been off the drink for x period of time that surely now they can control it and drink like a normal person and enjoy a pint or two. But as I've been told by numerous people who were off the drink 10,15,20 years and went back on it without fail they all say they thought surely after this length of time I can manage a couple of social drinks without problem. They all say it wasn't like starting a clean slate with drinking, or even starting back off where they finished. It was like starting as if they hadn't stopped for those years at all, and it was so much worse than when they stopped in the first place. There are a few sayings with the same meaning "even while you're in here doing your best to live a sober life, your alcoholism is at the back of your head doing press ups, getting stronger every single day and waiting". I know it is classified as a disease, and has been for years, but the way society treats it that's hard to believe. But things like it progressing even when you're not drinking make me think it must be. And that I need to treat it like having any other disease.

Irishcrx

I've had the same issue with Alcohol OP and similar background in that my Mam was a heavy drinker and most of my family growing up , I started drinking around 13 and heavily through my teens and twenties , it happens so gradually you don't even notice it until it is already a problem and then you go through the ' It's not a problem' stage as well...It was probably at it's worst for me in my early 30's or late twenties when I was starting to drink more and more during the week , drinking to get through problems , work issues , to celebrate , to watch football just became really anything...difference with me as opposed to my family growing up is that I was what i guess they would describe as ' functional' where as I was able to hold down a steady career , hobbies etc whilst drinking...It wasn't so much that I would drink every night as I could go days/weeks without drinking but when I did drink I would go heavy , have no off switch and then suffer the consequences in one way or another - the more it went on the more volitile I was becoming when drinking and the more it was effecting the people around me.

When I became self aware I realized the pattern from my mother in that at a certain age she could handle the drink before the binge drinking caught up with her and that personality switch and reliance started to happen , she didn't stop until her body and mind forced her too and by then it had taken everything , her career , her family , her health , her mind was all completely ruined before it was over and she had nothing left to show for it.

My move away from Alcohol came gradually as opposed to a ' hard stop' , I knew it was an issue , I knew it needed addressing and most importantly I realized that i wasn't enjoying this anymore - it was causing anxiety and the majority of problems in my life, my body was now rejecting it , the hangovers were lasting days and I absolutely hated the feeling of it...for me I talked to people I trusted and told them how I really felt , I took up hobbies i actually enjoyed and put my time into that and my children instead - I kept a constant reminder of what I did not want to become in my mother and told myself on repeat this is my crossroads and that i need to decide that path now.

It's not easy , I'm still not a person that 'never drinks' but I have an awful lot more control on it today than I did 3 years ago - I drink occasionally , on social occasions etc but when I go out I set myself limits and stick with them , I plan it in advance , I don't keep drink lying around the house - I actually sometimes dread the thought of drinking now - If I have a social occasion coming up where I will drink it'll be on my mind that i don't want to slip and over drink. My last stage now is actually attending those events and not drinking at all - my end goal is that I will be a completely sober person.

It's hard , hang tough - talk to people you trust and that will understand you , never be afraid to be honest and ask for support and set a goal for the person you want to and can become - Don't pressure yourself on being immediate , years of damage takes time to heal , the mind is amazingly strong and so are you.

Gun_Slinger

Hi OP, thanks for sharing your story, I could be reading my own life story in yours! I dont have a huge amount to add to what is in the replies but just another voice to tell you that you are not alone and I understand 100% where you are coming from.

I am like yourself and several posters i.e. started drinking at 12, binge drank all my life but could always hold down a good job and relationship etc. that was until I couldn't! It is a gradual decline to the point that my weekly routine was to buy 2-3 bottles of spirits to hide away for my own supplemental drinking. I would have a few glasses of wine/beer in the house and sneak off to the garage to down a huge shot of whiskey/vodka/gin to quicken the process of getting to oblivion.

I decided to stop drinking at the beginning of last year so on January 1st like so many others I knocked it on the head. This was more due to having a huge row with my missus more than anything. Even at this stage I didnt realise how much the drink had a hold of me. I lasted about 6 weeks until I had a fight with my OH and used this as an excuse to go on a bender for a few days. I took off exactly where I left and after one day had a nice bottle tucked away and I couldnt stop until that was completely gone. I decided to go off it again but then Covid struck and what a perfect excuse that was to hit it again. Cue a few weeks on the beer as bad or worse than I ever was. I got so low at this stage that I had to do something about it so I decided to go to counseling and join some kind of recovery program (Smart as it turns out).

This was the beginning of the end of my drinking and although the road has not been easy, it is so worth it. Through the counseling I was able to identify the underlying issues I had that caused me to act as I did. I never thought I was depressed but I was in severe depression all the time and I just thought it was my default way of thinking. I would constantly think of suicide as an escape route and got to the point of writing a note once and was standing in my garage with the rope in hand (God, that was hard to write). All I could think of was my kids and how much that would hurt them so I couldnt go through with it. Instead I just kept on drinking as a way of pushing these feelings away.

At the same time as seeing the councilor I started Smart Recovery which I must say was equal or more of a help than the counseling. Speaking and listening to other people in the same boat as yourself and just having an outlet to say whats on your mind in a non judgemental setting was amazing. I was sh1tting myself at the first meeting but you soon realise that everyone there is the exact same as yourself and soon become friends and support each other. I had many relapses and would be dreading the meeting as you would have to admit you messed up but absolutely everyone there has had the same experience many times over.

I fell off the wagon again 1 month ago but can honestly say (as much as you can say) that I will never drink again. While I was drinking I got such a horrible feeling that this is not "me" anymore and my body was full on rejecting it as I was drinking. I managed 5 pints which was only appetizer for the old drinker in me, but could not stomach one more drop after that. That night I got the absolute horrors as the drink started to leave my system which was a better deterrent than anything I have experienced in my life. In the ensuing days, I got such a brilliant feeling that now I can finally leave it behind me once and for all.

Best of luck with your journey OP. You realise you have a problem and want to fix it which is a big step to take.

Remember to be kind to yourself especially if you have a slip up and keep up the recovery meetings. Addicts tend to have an overly critical voice in our heads that will tell you you're shite, useless, worthless etc. Remember this is absolute bullsh1t! Some great advice I got in a meeting is, when you are being over hard on yourself, think would you ever talk to a friend in your situation in the same way. The answer is absolutely not, we would be the complete opposite. We can be very understanding to others (even complete strangers) yet completely throw this away when it comes to ourselves.

Take Care.

Whydoidonow999

Thanks Irishcrx and gun slinger.

Came back on here to re-read some of this fantastic advice and to remind myself of what clear, rational thinking me thinks! The urge to order drink this morning and have it delivered this afternoon was STRONG!! I tried to examine my feelings as to why. There really is no reason, nothing at all. I'm not sad/ down/ excited/ over happy, just feel normal. I think it was the little "voice" saying ah go on you'll be grand this time. I WILL NOT BE!! So I distracted myself with some chocolate, I know can't sub food for drink forever but for now I think a little sugar hit is a good call. I bought a Christmas tub of hero's so I can get a little sweet whenever I want and not go over board!

I've Elton John, I'm still standing on full blast right now. "Don't you know I'm still standing better than I ever did Looking like a true survivor, feeling like a little kid I'm still standing after all this time Picking up the pieces of my life without you on my mind"