"Green" policies are destroying this country

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121755295#Comment_121755295

Granted further down the food chain there is a bit of novelty getting a freebie trip.

But we are talking about ministers on €160k plus with a generous expenses package on top.

They are not short of money and can afford to go on a nice holiday with family or friends.

There's a big difference between a working trip and a trip where you have 100% downtime to do stuff you like.

I think it's not without merit to suggest that they may be taking the job seriously and not just there for the crack.

As for the cross party support it just might be that they all think the trips are worthwhile.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121755556#Comment_121755556

Supposition on both sides so I'll leave it there with one anecdote to show how even senior ministers just can't help themselves when it comes to freebies. Was sitting behind one such Minister who was in the 1st economy row but as soon as flight took off he hopped up and sat into a business class seat, called the flight attendant and asked for a newspaper and drink. She didn't bat an eye so presumably std form by this tight assed well paid Minister.

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121756070#Comment_121756070

IMO the reason all these ministers go on the annual jolly is networking, raising their profile internationally to line up the next gig for when they are kicked out of government.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121756412#Comment_121756412

how many TD over the years have benefitted internationally and how?

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121756418#Comment_121756418

Are you looking for a peer reviewed piece of research?

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121756418#Comment_121756418

Could name a few... Pádraig Flynn...Phil Hogan....

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121756070#Comment_121756070

Cheeky upgrade, happens all the time.

They both knew the drill.

I was that soldier.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121756693#Comment_121756693

Two who got European roles which Ireland should have people in Europe to fight our corner, did they get that role just from St Patrick Day events? because from what I can see government officials from all over Europe get assigned these roles.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121756837#Comment_121756837

No I believe the point was that these politicians are using the tradition of being sent around the world meeting dignitaries and CEO's to raise their own International profile, (which is why the likes of the "Green" politicians won't stand by their principles and stay in Ireland or the UK.. ) The further purpose being is to "open doors" for high level jobs in the private sector as the Greens know they will be wiped out in the next Gen. Election... Look at the likes of former FG TD Brian Hayes for instance..

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754530#Comment_121754530

Which Green TDs are the ministers for Housing and Health?

Like, there's a definition of 'Non Sequitur- and then there's your post...

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121756926#Comment_121756926

Yea you're right, not as if senior Green/T.D's/Ministers have a vote to implement health or housing policy whilst in Government...

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121756813#Comment_121756813

So why should I as a mere citizen do as that guy tells me is the right thing to do. Thats the reason people have such cynicism for politicians, the ultimate do as I say merchants.

Fair play to you for taking liberties with rules...are you a serial rule breaker or do you have sacred cows?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121756974#Comment_121756974

Rules what rules ?

The rule that says you can't sit a few rows up and get a free sandwich 🥪 ?

Just for the record I'm not a serial rule breaker.

All vehicles taxed, tested, insured.

Driving and TV licences up to date.

In good standing with Revenue and have a cert to prove it.

No outstanding bills.

That enough for you or do I have to take an oath 🙂

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121756837#Comment_121756837

No according to some they should know their place and sit quietly leaving the big boys to get all the biscuits.

Heaven forbid we'd have actual real live ambitious politicians.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121754949#Comment_121754949

I thought the energy blackout came from a storm?

People have dealt with electricity blackouts for about a hundred years now. Not sure why they blocked up their chimney without having thought of what they'd do if there was no electricity, but as you said, their solution is a portable gas powered heater to use in an emergency. They could have 'froze to death' i suppose if you want to be extremely dramatic, but if they're so socially isolated that they have no other option than freezing to death because their power is gone for a few days, then that's a bigger problem. (eg, what would happen if their house got flooded in a storm, would they just sit in the floodwater getting wet?)

Many many houses in Ireland going back decades do not have any central heating that still works if the electricity goes off, and many many houses do not have open fires where they could burn coal or turf in an emergency. Enough of the catastrophism about people freezing to death because their power is off for a few days please.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121757058#Comment_121757058

Couldn't care less even if you're a serial speed limit breaker or even a deliberate litterer🥶.....to me your just another anonymous poster on a social media site.

But the reason why I've lost so much respect for the political system is that I'm tired or being preached to by do as I merchants

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121756960#Comment_121756960

I'd love to know how you think governments actually work.

It seems that the greens alone are responsible for everything you don't like relating to the environment legislation, but also they're responsible for every other failure in every other department in government, past, present and future

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121757132#Comment_121757132

The Greens have seats at the top table, they're part of the current government so have power and influence... they shape and support government policy..

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121756974#Comment_121756974

Everyone is a hypocrite. Literally everyone in the entire world who is old enough and mentally capable of making their own decisions.

Luckily, in organised human activity, such as government and industry, we can separate policies, and legislation about what we 'Ought' to do, from the current behaviour of what people currently do

For example, if I am minister for transport, and I have been caught routinely speeding in my personal life, and then I implement a new speed limit of 100kph on Motorways, the fact that I've been caught speeding in the past is completely irrelevant, i should still be bound to the new speed limit, and I should still be held accountable if I break that new speed limit in the future.

Politicians, like every other human, will act differently in their professional capacity than they do in their personal capacity. They will know what the right thing to do is, while still bending the rules and justifying it to themselves. (sometimes consciously, often subconsciously) If your standard for green politicians is that they need to be flawless perfect paragons of virtue before they can get involved in any policy decisions, that is just a recipe for complete inaction and cynicism

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121756876#Comment_121756876

I know what the point was but we send how many officials each year for St Patrick Dya events and the response was two TDs who had been high profile and would have been nominated for Europe anyway

THe fact is the St Patrick Day event is a great advertisement for Ireland and TD's from whichever party should fly to countries to keep relationships open.

"won't stand by their principles and stay in Ireland or the UK" when has the Green Party or any party said they shouldn't fly for government business?

Look this argument is made every year, some people would prefer TD's to stay at home and then hurt relationship around the globe, then complain when Ireland starts to lose jobs etc. It's the most ridiculous nonsense but then again some people have nothing better to do than moan about anything a TD does and if they don't do it then moan about that.

People coming up with comments about international profile is just down to their own ignorance on how the government is already linked in with Europe. Ireland should always promote as many Irish voices in Europe to fight our corner

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121757079#Comment_121757079

What the poster who made this claim seems to forget is the TD's in government are already building their international profile once they get elected into government. We are part of Europe and they will attend virtually and physically loads of European events over the term. It's ridiculous to think that a TD going on a St Patrick Day event is suddenly going to change everyone opinion and push them forward for a European role instead of the hundred of events they will be part over.

But then again the people suggesting it would like everyone to sit at home and once the TD's do that they will complain the government is not going overseas to promote Ireland.

Some people you will never win with

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121757153#Comment_121757153

Housing and healthcare policies take years to draft and implement and every single white paper that gets to cabinet, prepared in the relevant department, involves thousands of hours of work in preparing the supporting materials, studies, surveys, consultations, environmental impact statements, legal advice, economic impact statements, financial statements etc etc etc

How do you think 3 green ministers, out of 15 sitting around a cabinet table discussing these policies, can fix the housing or healthcare crisis given that they have no input into any of these proposals before they get to cabinet? and at best gets to voice their concerns at a cabinet meeting where they have nowhere near any casting vote to draft policy that would only feed into government action years later?

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121757202#Comment_121757202

I've heard that argument before "then complain when Ireland starts to lose jobs etc." When in fact the real decisions are made in the Boardrooms of California and based on where they can place staff for the lowest cost and pay the least amount of corporate tax..

And sure isn't that what Enterprise Ireland is for? Promoting jobs and business for Ireland and paying their CEO close to quarter of a €Million a year for?

Oscar_Madison

Whilst behind a paywall, essentially this article is about a woman who placed a bicycle storage unit in her garden and the council threatened her with court action as it needed planning permission. She didn’t have a side passage to her house which would have meant carting the bicycles through the house which was impractical. So she’s basically no longer using the bikes and back to the car.

Another example of cart before the horse- government aren’t interested in making it easy for people to adapt to a green agenda and those that are trying are penalised - I’m sick of the lecturing coming from the Green Party when I read stories like this one

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/they-said-i-could-be-jailed-for-two-years-or-fined-12m-over-a-bike-shed-in-my-front-garden/a1302493707.html

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121757227#Comment_121757227

Yea without a lecture in political science and the intricacies of Democracy, all the Irish voter knows is that the Greens vote(support) to pass government policies responsible for the many failings in the system right now...

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121757108#Comment_121757108

You cared enough to ask the question.

Anonymous suits me fine that's why I like Boards.

Try and look at the bigger picture when it comes to politics.

Our system isn't perfect but we still have a lot going for us.

St Patrick's Day is a master class in soft diplomacy.

Does anyone around the world know the name of the patron saints of Denmark, Norway, Finland ?

Ireland, friendship, hospitality.

It starts with a sandwich on the plane and ends at dinner with the ambassador.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121757331#Comment_121757331

The reason no one knows who the patron saints of Denmark, Norway, Finland are is because a quarter of the populations of those countries didn't have to emigrate in coffin ships to escape extreme hunger and poverty... But I admire your doggedness in trying to defend the annual government junket..

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121757357#Comment_121757357

The famine and subsequent mass emigration to Britain and North America would account for the large Irish communities in those places.

That's just one factor in how St Patrick's Day has become known all over the world in more recent times.

It only started out fairly low key but we took an opportunity and ran with it

As I said, soft diplomacy which we brought to a fine art.

All governments have continued the tradition. Some of the most astute leaders we've had over the years endorsed it with their presence. Even the current main opposition are long time champions of the cause.

That's a lot of experienced practitioners in the art of politics.

The only party I hear quibbling about the trips is PBP-Solidarity.

My analysis remains that we need to think long and hard before throwing away a winning hand.

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121757293#Comment_121757293

She fell foul of the rules. like many who erected stuff in their gardens shouldn't have. Why does she need a shed in the front if she has access to the back, albeit, through the house? She's in a better position than the thousands living in apartments, up a stairs with no garden. Can they all put up bike sheds outside the front door too?

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121757293#Comment_121757293

The 'government' isn't the local council. And this case, was probably highlighted by a neighbour who didn't like the look of the new structure and used existing planning legislation to challenge the bike shelter, which the council had no choice but to enforce

Seriously, what do you expect 'the government' to do about cases like these? We're not living in a dictatorship, Eamon Ryan can't just interfere in planning disputes between neighbours just because it involved a bicycle...

There even are plans drafted by the greens to exempt bike shelters from the planning rules, but the FF minister for housing has not prioritised that legislation, so that means it's the greens fault....

"Green Party TD Steven Matthews drafted a legislative amendment last summer that would automatically exempt bicycle storage units from needing planning permission, and gave it to the Department of Housing in the hope it would be formally adopted."