"Green" policies are destroying this country

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815201#Comment_118815201

As usual never an answer to a question, just deflect with another question. 🤦‍♂️

The Kerry LNG is been banned because of LNG supply which could and in all probability be fracked, if not then the company would just say no fracked LNG will be in Kerry, but they won’t.

Just Google the hundreds of articles on it.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815650#Comment_118815650

If you read the article it mentions 1 FG TD.

it also has a comment from MM which doesn’t confirm or deny anything, it’s a puff piece but at the moment these puff pieces are held up by some as gospel.

Banana Republic 1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118812136#Comment_118812136

🪑

cnocbui

Me: Where is the fracking taking place and what governemnt is currently in power there and has responsibility for the environment?

You: "Not sure what the point of the question is?"

You: "As usual never an answer to a question, just deflect with another question.

ROFL

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815533#Comment_118815533

Well my previous reply to you was factual so I guess you simply don't like when other posters point out where misinformation has been posted such as your claim that banning all future natural gas exploration was a "cabinet decision" where what was posted on the gps own website shows that was not the case and yet you continue to push that false narrative.

And probably best to drop the attempt at reverse psychology tbh. If you have an issue with any comment I make simply report it. That you regularly choose to attack those you do not agree with is noted.

But to paraphrase - I'm more that happy to reiterate that you have a constant pattern of a particular type of posting which adds nothing to the discussion, because you simply ignore what posters have clearly shown to be inaccurate or plain old wrong and instead you continue to repeat the exact same tired old misinformation again and again and again. That's fine if that's what you choose to do, but you can expect other posters to hold those comments up for scrutiny.

Banana Republic 1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815757#Comment_118815757

Best not look up north so

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815757#Comment_118815757

We do after all live in a planned economy. Which pretty much means the government and business moguls come together and decide

"x number of people are going to make so much money pulling material y out of the ground"

"then we'll boot on the overpriced coffee/food industry & cheap high margin fashion"

"when material y runs out we have 20 years supply of material z in the ground, this will create a certain number of jobs for people in 2040-2060"

the "transition phase" is just one of those steps. You can bet your bottom dolla they're already lining up the next money spinner for once they've everyone converted to electric cars and heat pumps. It will probably some virtual thing that exists only in the metaverse because most of the materials have already been pulled out of the ground.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815693#Comment_118815693

The puff piece was being push here that all parties were on board with the greens on LNG. Clearly that is not the case,and I would not give the proposed Green Party LNG bill much chance of being passed.

Hopefully the Irish Green party are daft enough to throw a hissy fit and cause a general election. FF & FG would have some explaining to do as to why they agreed to the Greens demands on LNG, but nothing compared to the explaining the greens would have to do.

I would particularly enjoy listening to Eamon attempting to explain, (something their supporters here have failed to do), what is going to fill the gap left by natural gas. Waffling about pie in the sky hydrogen I`m afraid will just not cut ice with the Irish electorate.

A general election would also bring electricity charges to the fore. I would enjoy Eamon attempting to explain the marginal model of pricing in operation that is so favoured by greens. All it will take is one question, "Eamon, if tomorrow we had 90% of our electrical needs supplied by renewables would the price drop" for the answer to result in a nationwide, "For fcuk sake" as so far luckily for the greens not many know what the marginal model of pricing is.

Even some of the greens most ardent supporters here hadn`t a clue until it was explained to them here last week. Yourself included.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815723#Comment_118815723

😂

I suggest you read back. The first question I asked, Did you read the article?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815956#Comment_118815956

As I already said, 1 TD and MM who confirmed nothing. Hilarious anyone would post this as "proof". Worse then people are incapable of reading the article.

If the LNG is not passed then the government will be dissolved and rightly so.

As I said already, if the Healy Rae family think the Kerry LNG is a good option then you know it is not.

I have no idea what you are rambling about at the end, I think you are trying to say you explained something to me 😂

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815411#Comment_118815411

So not "another essay long posts"? 😅

Again that seems to be mainly arguing ad nauseum over a number of miniscule, mundane points. Which btw is also an accusation you leveled at other posters here. But no matter.

Out of all of that you have left out the single most important detail which is that the green party's own policy highlight the need to reduce Irelands dependence on imported fossil fuels and yet here in your post your claiming the exact opposite

"This gas can be supplied through the Moffat lines to meet 100% of our requirements so we have no need of a LNG terminal, whether one gets built or not is up to ABP, but we will have no need for it"

"Electricity is electricity once its flows through lines. The source doesn't really make much difference"

And this when with what's going on in Europe and the shitshow there that is the escalating competition for reduced supplies of natural gas and that for the foreseable future. What gives that you choose to ignore these basic facts?

tom1ie

In a previous post I see that has boilers are to be banned from 2024 for new builds as the builder will have to install a heat pump.

I take it gas boilers will still be available for the majority existing house stock in case a boiler goes faulty?

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118816114#Comment_118816114

Well a quick google. Oil banned from 2022 and gas banned from 2025 in new builds. The gas boiler ban will probably be brought forward

This is for new builds.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118816222#Comment_118816222

So new gas and oil boilers will still be available.

Good to know.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118816222#Comment_118816222

That will be fantastic. They'll have all those silly normal eejits cornered and nicely dependent on the one source of power should they ever want to jack up the price. Electricity prices are set to balloon in the coming years. You have the green solar panel crowd at the moment saying they're getting such a good deal filling their Tisla for three fiddy but that buffet will be over before most people have joined it.

I'm also highly suspicious about how they have made air pollution into such a topical issue in the past few years. Air quality has been steadily improving since the 90s even with all the extra diesel cars on the road. It is all part of the plan to make people more dependent on electricity & to fleece them once they no longer have alternatives

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118816375#Comment_118816375

I blame the lizard people myself

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118816347#Comment_118816347

Who said they wouldn’t?

If HVO is agreed and introduced an oil boiler will be better for most retrofit than A2W, IMO anyway

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118816375#Comment_118816375

Air quality has improved in Ireland?

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118816463#Comment_118816463

All of Europe really but I don't remember it ever being bad here to begin with. Maybe in Dublin during the worst of the coal days

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118815980#Comment_118815980

Indeed I did read the article.

The article didn`t make it clear, other than stating a number of FG T.D,s what that number was other than Brendan Griffin and Patrick O`Donovan. Even while not knowing the number of T.D.s, from reading the article we do know it is at least twice your number. So I agree with you on your point of it " Worse when people are incapable of reading the article."

I haven`t seen where anyone posted this article as proof that FG or FF were having problems supporting a Green Party dictate in the programee for government, or what you believe what involvement the Healy Rea family had in the programme, but when you see a FG Junior Minister from Limerick and an Taoiseach and leader of FF having problems with the Greens position on LNG, it certainly looks like that old saying of no smoke without fire.

Hopefully this will lead to a general election for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

No rambling. Just pointing out that you had not an iota on electricity charges being determined under the marginal model. Even where you were initially told about it, you attempted to show that it was incorrect until it had to be further explained to you. Since then you have avoided the subject like the plaque.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118816005#Comment_118816005

Yeah. Got to the sections you quoted and just said to myself what is the point in going around in continuous circles. I have been asking this poster how are we going to fill the gap of unreliable wind energy and other than some magical jump from natural gas to 100% renewables it`s now the Moffat lines supplying us. With that I nearly lost the will to live, let alone go around the houses again replying to points I have already replied to in posts here many times.

Rather than any kind of even half-assed reason why we should not, like other, have the capability to use LNG. Preferably from our own terminal which would mean we could source and purchase our own supplies of LNG. But no it`s Moffat.

Moffat for nobody knows how long, where we would be relying on 100% of our natural gas requirements from a non E.U. country whose Home Secretary Priti Patel`s solution to the Northern Ireland Protocol was to starve us into submission until we agreed to their proposals. What could possibly go wrong with that "solution".

The "Electricity is electricity once it flows through pipes. The source doesn`t really make much difference", with all the B.S. on LNG and heaven help us, some of it might be fracked, was the back-breaking-straw.

RandomViewer

Gobdaw Gibbons on VM1 saying food should cost 40% of household income, Greens want every penny tied up and everyone living hand to mouth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118816831#Comment_118816831

Ah well 🤷‍♂️

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118816831#Comment_118816831

I do truely wonder how much of this misinformation is simply being repeated ver batim at this stage? With extra irony the whole thing reminds me a little bit of this

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-60790821

But leaving the flipancy aside, the situation in the short to medium term with regard to the natural gas supplies we do need is indeed dire.

Not only have we had green supporters trying to claim incorrectly that Ireland has no current indigenous natural gas reserves and we shouldn't look for any more regardless

Or even where we do have natural gas - they claim we don't need those resources, because we can get what we want from the UK - even where this apparently contravenes the gp policy of minimising foreign imports of fossil fuels

However what's being left out if this pretty story is that by 2030, it is understood that the UK will be importing 75pc of its natural gas from other countries, because of the decline in North Sea production. And when the UK itself is short of gas, there is no guarantee that the UK will export gas to Ireland

"In the absence of new gas fields, Ireland would then be totally dependent on the UK for its gas supply.    These gas imports would likely come from Norway, Russia, Qatar and various countries outside Europe.  Thus, the gas supply route to Ireland would be longer and add a greater risk of supply disruption and price volatility."

https://www.privacyshield.gov/article?id=Ireland-Energy-Oil-Gas

Russia is now out as a longterm source of gas for Europe orvthe UK once the North Sea reserves decline But with increasingly scarce supplies Irelands going to be the very last country in Europe looking down an increasingly scarce and expensive natural gas pipeline

If only there was something that could be done ...

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/over-reliance-on-uk-sourced-gas-supplies-could-lead-to-an-energy-catastrophe-by-2030-40913321.html

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118816568#Comment_118816568

Sorry you are correct, it was 2

In term of the not an iota. I explained everything to you. You ignored and posted numerous rambling post exactly like this which has nothing to do with the topic. So I have ignored

Aftrr all you said you have spent 8 years posting on the subject but have no clue on it, it’s not like after 8 years the Penny is suddenly going to drop

For example, You didn’t even understand the Kerry LNG was going to be owned by a private company. Yet you have told nearly every poster they know nothing 😂🤦‍♂️

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118816505#Comment_118816505

I can’t find anything to confirm or deny this? Would you have anything? Thanks

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118816454#Comment_118816454

No one did.

Did I miss a new rule on this particular thread that said questions can’t be asked or points can’t be clarified?

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118816997#Comment_118816997

This is the exact problem that the dacor and broken angel keep sidestepping.

We need gas as backup until 2050.

Corrib runs out in 2025.

We can’t explore for new gas in our own area due to the GP.

We are reliant on the UK for gas from 2025 on.

What do we do?

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817409#Comment_118817409

How are we sidestepping? I already have said multiple times Ireland has a direct link into gas via UK into Europe. Many many many times.

What do we do? well thats the whole thread isn't it as nobody is able to discuss any other topic. As a few people have said, we invest in renewable and generate our own power. If we do need some gas as a backup we can use the UK line. Plus if we reduce the gas requirements from Corrib that could last longer.

paddyisreal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817455#Comment_118817455

You do know a little thing called Brexit occured and the brits have no responsibility to supply us with anything. Just look at their behaviour over the protocol.

Do ye greens actually live in the real world

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817455#Comment_118817455

The GP is against importing gas is it not?

We 100% will need gas as backup no ifs or buts about this. I and plenty others on this thread have been making this very point for weeks.

We will be dependent on a foreign power for gas at the very time gas becomes scarce.

If we reduce the flow from corrib that might buy us a year or two, but the flow rate from corrib is being used at the minute, it’s not being wasted.

Do you not think it would be better to explore our own areas for indigenous gas supplies instead of depending on the UK until 2050?

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817506#Comment_118817506

What has brexit got to do with the supply of gas? This comment really shows the lack of understanding of Brexit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817516#Comment_118817516

Baffling. Have you read the thread at all?

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817529#Comment_118817529

Yes I have what’s the problem.

Your out of answers because you have none.

what have I said that you disagree with?

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817535#Comment_118817535

It is clear you haven't. From day 1 on this thread I have discussed Ireland investing in renewables and using the pipe line into UK as a backup. I totally discounted the Irish gas because it is not a long term sustainable supply. I have shared Green party policies on all of this.

The problem with the Kerry LNG is one, we don't own the LNG in it. Which everyone seems to struggle with. It is owned by a private company, just because it would be in Ireland makes no difference and they can sell to Ireland at whatever price they want. Once they get planning that is it. You seem to be suggesting by having the LNG we(ireland) suddenly ownthe LNG.

Also the issue with the LNG is fracking. This is clear from every article available from the Greens. Again the message been pushed by a couple of posters is the Greens are totally against gas. Again incorrect. They are totally against Fracking. The company who will own Kerry LNG want to use LNG which has been fracked. That is the problem.

Then in the middle of it all you accuse me of "side stepping". Which is 100% not true. My message has been clear from day 1. Yet we have rubbish been shared from a couple oof posters about Germany and anywhere else in the World which is irrellevant.

Even if we give the LNG plant the go ahead it will probably be close to 2030 before it is online, at best they estimate 2027 so it will do nothing to help the current situtation.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817560#Comment_118817560

You didn’t read my post.

where did I mention LNG.

You are obviously still happy to depend on gas coming from the UK am I right in saying that?

Do the UK have a legal obligation to continue the supply of gas to Ireland in the event that they themselves are short on gas?

paddyisreal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817529#Comment_118817529

Baffling that you cant understand that brexit has a massive effect on our ability to secure gas from Britain. In simple terms that you might understand Britain are no longer in the EU SO HAVE NO RESPONSIBIKITY TO SUPPLY US WITH GAS OR ANY ENERGY SOURCE. You have quoted that we will get gas from Britain so of course brexit has an effect on us securing energy.

Its actually hilarous that you cant understand the effect brexit has on our energy security or maybe you do but just choose to ignore it like Eamon and his hydrogen dreams.

brokenangel

I think we need to clear up a few things on this fantastic LNG plant

Ireland does not own it

It is a private company

If they have 1,000,000 ltr of LNG and we want to buy it for 2m, and Germany bids 3m the company can sell to Germany

All the plant is giving is a private company a base to store huge quantities of LNG so it is quicker and cheaper to sell into Europe. Ireland is just the best location to stick it for them to make more money.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817592#Comment_118817592

Well if the link is not reliable then all the more reason for Ireland to invest in renewable technology wouldn't you think? so we generate our own power and only have to rely on external connections as a back up

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817594#Comment_118817594

Again who has mentioned LNG?

What about allowing exploration licences in Irish waters instead of depending on UK gas that as far as I know, they have no legal obligation to pass on to us.

Can you address this point please as you keep ignoring it.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817571#Comment_118817571

How many times have you changed the goal posts now?

In terms of exploration this was discussed in detail already. We spent 50 years searching in Ireland, nothing was found. The next option is fracking. If you want to know why that is a bad idea plenty of articles on web about it.

Anyway I made my points clear.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817606#Comment_118817606

“If the link is not reliable………only have to rely on external connections as backup.”

Huh? Are you saying if the gas link to the UK isn’t reliable we should rely on……..the gas link to the UK 😂😂🤦‍♂️

paddyisreal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817606#Comment_118817606

But renewables by there nature are totally unreliable so we need our OWN backup and not be relying on anyone else. That is the crux of the matter.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817619#Comment_118817619

😂😂😂😂 nothing was found!

bar corrib, kinsale, ballycotton, seven heads.

Ah come off it angel surely you know this?

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817630#Comment_118817630

I think we could be wasting our time debating with the wall here.

If angel can’t understand this and doesn’t know about the existing gas fields (not the first time this has been pointed out) then this is probably a waste of time 🤦‍♂️

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817606#Comment_118817606

Oh ffs And around and around we go.

Whilst I bang my head of a wall- my advance apologies for the capitals. WE NEED NATURAL GAS TO HELP IN THE TRANSITION TOWARDS RENEWABLE ENERGY GENERATION.

Seriously what's hard to understand? We need a safe, secure and dependable source of natural gas to do so. The UK gas pipeline does not provide that in the light of Brexit, the fact that North Sea gas reserves are in serious decline and whats going on in Europe with all the other EU countries looking to secure a supply of natural gas!

If only there was one or more solutions!

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/over-reliance-on-uk-sourced-gas-supplies-could-lead-to-an-energy-catastrophe-by-2030-40913321.html

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817619#Comment_118817619

"We spent 50 years searching in Ireland, nothing was found"

This is what I referred to as the issue with a unremitting stream of disinformation and misinformation being constantly posted by a few in this thread. What gives?

That idea has already been pointed out as being completely false

Natural gas exploration and finds since the 1970s. This has already been detailed many times.

"Todate gas exploration licenses have been awarded at the Kinsale Head, Ballycotton, Seven Heads and Corrib fields. From 1978 to 1995, Kinsale Head along with Ballycotton and Sevens Head, supplied all of Ireland's gas. Corrib field contributed the equivalent of 50% of Ireland's gas consumption. In addition the finding of the Barryroe oilfield of Ireland’s South Coast has the potential to provide the 120,000 barrels of oil a day that Ireland consumes, and a proportion of the gas needed to generate about 60 per cent of its electricity. Current licences for exploration are held by Equinor and Europa Oil & Gas."

Offshore wind expansion moves a step closer.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40833458.html

In relationship to the recent discussions on peat extraction,the High Court has shut down a peat extraction operation. Hopefully the first of many closures

https://www.thejournal.ie/peats-sake-pt8-peat-court-judgement-5716958-Mar2022/

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817831#Comment_118817831

Well thats good- if it happens. However the chances are is that the militant wing of the green party will be along shortly to object to the development

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/an-taisce-denies-being-opposed-to-wind-farms-1.1353139?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fenvironment%2Fan-taisce-denies-being-opposed-to-wind-farms-1.1353139

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817922#Comment_118817922

This ruling will likely block any peat extraction to build windfarms as well.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817281#Comment_118817281

From the article it`s a minimum of two FG TD,s. But then you do have a tendency to be fast and loose with facts. Even when you are not ignoring them.

In terms of not having an iota your posts are littered with examples.

To mention just a few. You hadn`t an iota that the marginal model was how electricity charges were determined. With you avoiding the subject like the plague, I doubt you still have an iota even after it being explained to you. You haven`t an iota on what percentage of electricity is generated from renewables, claiming it was 69%. Just yesterday you showed you had not an iota on the Green Party proposed legislation to ban LNG, claiming it was because of fracked LNG. The proposed bill does not mention fracked LNG once. It is a proposal to ban LNG, and you have yet to give any kind of coherent answer as to the wisdom of the Green Party legislation that has banned all future issue of exploration licences when our own known natural gas fields will be depleted by 2025.

The rest of your post is your usual ignoring of what I have told you quite a few times now, with you again just attempting to use deflection to cover up your own lack of knowledge or answering the question you have been asked.