"Green" policies are destroying this country

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122052460#Comment_122052460

That's actually completely untrue thankfully. Not only would something like that make the news but the EPA would go mad

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053390#Comment_122053390

Unfortunately it is very much true according to the EPA from an Irish Independent article of 26th. October 2023 where the EPA stated that half a billion litres of waste water that has not been adequately filterded or disinfected by Uisce Eireann is discharged into rivers and coastal waters daily.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053592#Comment_122053592

Some of the CSOs along the Liffey are in such poor state I suspect a lot of it doesn't even make it to the treatment plants

zerosquared

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122051080#Comment_122051080

How will these Greenies reach nature without public transport?

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122054276#Comment_122054276

Uisce Eireann loses 40% of treated water daily because of leaks, so I very much doubt that figure is lower for leaks from waste water pipes going to treatment plants. In all likrlihood much higher than 40%

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122053390#Comment_122053390

It's very true. There's been numerous stories of raw sewage discharge. Some doing it all the time and they claim to have no funding to fix it. Or,a s I said, after heavy rain the plants discharge whatever is there. Lots of different articles about it.

Even on their own website

https://www.water.ie/projects/national-projects/eliminating-raw-sewage/

The EPA have also commented. Here's one such article - https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41255686.html

Furze99

Simple solution: bring in charges for domestic water and sewage. Ring fence the money for Irish Water and let them get on with it.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122054923#Comment_122054923

First good idea I have seen on this thread in a long time.

Don't think it will happen mind you

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122054923#Comment_122054923

To connect to the network you gotta pony up some euros. Should be a charge too though for utilities. But it must be state owned, never privatised.

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122050052#Comment_122050052

Further info here from the minister

https://twitter.com/noonan_malcolm/status/1782812053389939012

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122054923#Comment_122054923

Simple answers : it has been tried and failed in spectacular fashion. Not just in terms of state capital spend but in capital political loss which guarantees it will be a long time, if ever, before it is attempted again.

Had, as originally promised, the water and waste water networks been made fit for purpose before charges were introduced it may have worked. Doing that before attempting it again might work, but I would not bet on it. Not while Uisce Eireann are more interested on spending money piping water from the Shannon to Dublin to have 40% of it leaking into the ground.Two other problems that any government would have selling the idea. Getting people to believe money would be ring fenced, and a referendum promised nearly a decade ago without as much as a murmur on it since.

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122055521#Comment_122055521

Irish water must be the most arrogant organisation in the state. We have water connections to 4 different farms. The latest scam they are pulling is charging for the same volume of "waste water out" as the water we use even though there isn't a sewer within 3 miles of any of the farms.

Have been onto them several times about it, sent from Bill to Jack on the phone, but getting nowhere.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122055521#Comment_122055521

I don't think FG or Labour will ever recover from the political loss of the Irish Water debacle. Fact is the main cost of water in this country is the infrastructure so it should only ever have been a fixed amount, no need to spend money then on meters etc.

A good idea would be to divert a few € of every homes LPT away from the council budget and ringfence that with Irish Water. Not only would nobody feel any pain but it would satisfy any current or future EU requirement for water charges. Some councils are spending €25 of the LPT having a pot of tea delivered. Surely leak fixing would be a better use of this money

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/politics/limerick-city-county-council-staff-16167483

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122056121#Comment_122056121

They may have changed their name and everything that goes with that from Irish Water to Uisce Eireann at the expense of the taxpayer, but they are still the same bunch of arrogant changers they showed themselves to be from the first day they were established.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122056142#Comment_122056142

I agree, I don`t think either will ever recover from the political loss of the debacle which is why no government will go within a country mile of water charge for the foreseeable future. The large amount of money that was wasted on meters was viewed by many at the time to have nothing to do with improving services and everything to do with privatisation down the line. With still no sign of the promised referendum after close to a decade now it is increasingly difficult not to see that view as being validated.

I do seem to recall around half a billion euro going from the LPT fund to Irish Water that ended up paying consultants so getting buy in from the public that taking LPT away from councils would actually be ringfenced for Uisce Eireann would alone be problematic. And that is before you could even get them to believe the water utility company under its present moniker would spend it as intended. Their were a lot of very expensive miscellaneous pots of tea and sandwiches likes items making it into Irish Water expense accounts

roosterman71

The European Court of Auditors have come out and questioned the sense in phasing out ICE vehicles by 2035 as it could lead to an over dependence on cheaper foreign imports

In an unusual move, EU auditors have warned the EU’s industrial sovereignty is at risk if it sticks to a de facto 2035 ban on petrol and diesel cars without addressing its dependency on overseas suppliers for raw materials and batteries needed to produce electric vehicles.

https://www.euronews.com/green/2024/04/22/budget-watchdog-enters-political-fray-with-warning-over-petrol-car-ban

This bit is what has been mentioned here lots of times - the clash between green policies and the costs of those

 “How can the green deal satisfy our climate objectives without harming our industrial policy, and increasing costs for European consumers.”

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122056904#Comment_122056904

The total phase out of ICE doesn't make sense to most people, even electric car drivers, or a lot of them anyway

In reality some people will need diesels etc and that's the reality. The issue is a lot of people in diesel never required them and never will.

They should focus on a mix but with a push on people picking the right fuel for them, at the moment it seems if anything is government led then some people will fight against it even if it makes perfect sense. Like every house with 2 cars and a driveway, in reality they could easily swap one car to electric without any issues.

The fabled long distance drive can be catered for by one combustion car.

roosterman71

I see the windfall tax is being challenged in the commercial court

https://www.independent.ie/business/corrib-gas-field-operator-challenges-states-windfall-tax/a1628932224.html

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122056904#Comment_122056904

It`s not before time, if anything away to late, that the European Court of Auditors have started questioning the costs and implications of implications of green policy.

Not just on increased cost for consumers and harming industrial policy but also the cost not just financially but the cost of human lives in relation to agricultural from this green deal policy.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122056435#Comment_122056435

In isolation water charges would not have have been such a big deal, but they were the latest thing in a quick succession of increased costs and reduced benefits so became a lightening rod.

Organisationally Irish Water had its own set of issues but its predecessors had shown themselves not to be up to the task.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122055521#Comment_122055521

Well if the public want a solution to reliable water supplies and are concerned about discharge of sewage effluent into the sea - they'll have to bite the bullet at some stage. It's actually a complete no brainer to bring in metered water charges, in terms of both funding repairs but also to encourage less wastage.

I suspect department policy here now is to wait till the issue gets worse, a dry summer or two and they'll be implemented.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122060793#Comment_122060793

If there was one thing that emerged with credit from the water metering fiasco it was that as a nation we do not waste water. The Irish taxpayers have also shown that they are happy paying for their wayet services by way of general taxation. One of the things that got them riled over metering was that as far as they were concerned the network was in such a state due to funding being diverted for years to other government priorities and they were now expected to pay on the double for what they believed they had already paid for, so good luck to any future government that tries telling them about ring fencing.

The major wastage of treated water is the 40% leaks from mainsE even higher I imagine for waste water. Yet here we are with a utility companies priority appearing to be the laying of a pipeline from the Shannon to Dublin to keep pumping that 40% into the ground. Even a cart before the horse doesn`t adequately cover that.

Water unlike electricity is easily stored. We have greens telling us we are going to be washed out of it with rainfall for most of the year in future. Rather that waste revenue on some of these green questionable proposals, why not use it where it will do public and environmental good (especially in relation to waste water) by actually fixing mains and building reservoirs to store all that rainfall that is going to run off to the sea after washing us out of it.

creedp

I can understand the argument for introducing user charges to reduce excessive waste of water but, in a so called wealthy country that can squander billions on a whim for pet projects, I can't understand why the State hasn't the capability to put in place infrastructure for a basic public service. Calling for user charges to address what is a failure by successive Govts is a cop out or simply a convenient ruse to extract even more taxation from the proportion of the population who pays for everything imo

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122058450#Comment_122058450

The whole metering project started out as a farce with both government parties reneging on promise that got them elected, a CEO being appointed that skipped town in Galway City before he was ran out on a rail with a history of everything else he touched having turned to manure, a large spend on water meters consultants, and even laughing yoga classes for head office staff, and still somehow managed to go downhill after that.

It was a complete fiasco from beginning to end.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122061100#Comment_122061100

"If there was one thing that emerged with credit from the water metering fiasco it was that as a nation we do not waste water."

LOL - You must be joking surely!!!! When you hear debates between people as to whether they have one shower a day or two, cars being washed, gardens being watered, massive paddling pools being filled and thrown out. I've little doubt but that public water consumption could easily be halved and more and we'd all be fine. Wanton waste.

Metered water charges made huge sense and still do. But wait & suffer before the truth hits.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122061126#Comment_122061126

The cycle of them being scrapped and reintroduced hasn't helped.

spicedspud

The new shoe recycling pits will go over a storm.

Simply take your older shoes, arrange them alphabetically by brand, left shoes going in a blue bag, right shoes in an octagonal cardboard box.

Remove shoe laces and keep them in specialty envelopes provided by Legitimate Company 26 based in Sri Lanka until further notice.

Proceed with bags and boxes to the nearest Shoe Pit which is guaranteed to be open at times.

Upon flinging into pit, a facial recognition device will display a 100 digit number.

This number can then be entered into the Shoe Pit app which will then produce a password that can be redeemed against a token that can be exchanged for a ticket.

Upon presentation of ticket to a Shoe Pit Retail Hero, it will be transformed into a 10 cent reduction on, strictly, either wooden culery or gluten free broccoli. Not both.

I will be practically invisible chairman of the Shoe Pit board overseeing whatever, at least 30 minutes per month, and will do so for 100k.

Oh yeah and the environment thing.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122062143#Comment_122062143

That is the main problem with myths. People hear them and then repeat them without even checking if they are true or false.

As a nation we are not wasters of water. From Population Review country ranking/water consumption Annual Water Withdrawl per Capita (cubic meters) our figure is 312.04. Deduct the 40% that is lost from mains and that is reduced to to 187.

Now to compare that 187 to other countries in Europe alone. Many of them with much lower annual rainfall thn ours.

Greece 971, Armenia 954, Iceland 815, Bulgaria, 730, Finland, 631, Spain 620, Serbia 609, Portugal,601, Italy 560, Norway 496, Slovenia 482, Hungary 482, France 402, Austria 388, Belguim 368, Germany 340, Romania 333………

As I said earlier, had the promise of mains fit for purpose before metering been followed through water charges may have stood a chance. Any government in the future hoping to reintroduce them would have to first hold the long promised referendum that there is no sight nor sound of, convince the population that the money would be ringfenced and have the main at a level fit for purpose and whatever about the first two, with Uisce Eireann`s glacial pace on mains whatever your age is that is highly unlikely to happen in your lifetime and it`s certainly not going to happen in mine.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122062902#Comment_122062902

Rubbish I say. Try living with less water and you'll soon find many ways to reduce. The real myth is that the Irish public on public water supplies are careful with their use of water. Those I know couldn't give a crap about how much they use and only get exercised when there's rationing or faults.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122068010#Comment_122068010

While not careful they are not careless either.

For most people water consumption is bath/shower every day or two, washing dishes, washing clothes, flushing toilets, and a few other things like drinking that are negligable. Not much low-hanging fruit before conservation is asking people to compromise their health.