"Green" policies are destroying this country

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781280#Comment_118781280

What do public charge points all over the country with 10 years + of free fuel…

Fact? You have yet to produce one fact apart from showing your own misunderstanding on electric cars and SEAI grant system

paddyisreal

You just choose to ignore facts and common sense like the greens in general. End of, not wasting my time with you anymore. Put the guard in front of my lovely turf fire and off to bed.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118780527#Comment_118780527

we actually don't in reality, the reserves we have are tiny hence we have only had a couple of successful and economically viable exploits.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781294#Comment_118781294

this is just a whingy whiny rant with no substence which is trying to use the failed argument of look over there they are doing nothing so we shouldn't bother either which ain't going to work.

the facts are that some countries deciding they want to do nothing and end up paying 20 times the cost in the end is not an argument against ireland doing what it needs to do to ultimately benefit itself.

and it will be ireland who will benefit the most from implementing green policies which will boost the economy, save money in all sorts of ways and bring about a much healthier population.

ireland doesn't need to save the world and that isn't even the reasons for implementing the necessary green policies, but it absolutely does need to cut pollution especially in the towns and cities where pollution is out of control because of ridiculous levels of private cars.

we are witnessing what happens when you rely on other countries and the international markets in the continued use of expensive foscel fuels.

the fact is that the ripping off of the plaster now and highish costs that come with it is going to be much easier then the unaffordable cost of not bothering to do anything which would actually destroy our economy and irreparibly.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781326#Comment_118781326

only for a small part of the state's history did the bogs provide the majority of the electricity, for a few decades it has been reduced quite a bit with coal and gas that have provided half to a majority.

also the bogs have more or less been industrially exploited within economic viability now hence why we have had to move away from them as a source as its no longer economically viable to industrially exploit them.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781604#Comment_118781604

.... and this is just the ramblings of a fantasist so immersed in a unicorn green fantasy world that he has no idea what is going on in the real world around him.

Like the Green Party and their supporters living in this imaginary world of a far off tomorrow, not a single idea on how to tackle the real world problems we are currently facing of power cuts and blackouts, to mention just a few.

Nothing other than pointless banal rhetoric, "ease up on the accelerator" and imaginary inter-connectors carrying imaginary surplus green energy when one of the golden boys in Europe of the greens on green energy, Finland, has gone back to harvesting turf, and the country we so slavishly followed, Germany, (resulting in both of us being among the four highest in Europe for electricity charges), is now expanding terminal to facilitate an increase in their use of LNG. Both energy sources which the Irish Green Party and their supporters, (or more correctly the few they have left), believe we are too righteous in our single-handed quest to save the world to even consider.

If the situation wasn`t so serious at this stage it would be laughable.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781347#Comment_118781347

Nothing beats the sight and aroma of an open fire burning turf. It would warm you just looking at it.

Atlantic Dawn

Watching Room To Improve tonight, Bannon was saying €130k would be needed just to update the heating system and insulation to bring the house up to current standards, this kind of investment is absolutely insane, it's like bringing in a 1985 Ford Sierra and wanting it to go from 25mpg to 50mpg by blowing €30k worth of upgrades. Any house where it's going to cost more than €50k to bring it up to spec should be given a condemned notice where it has to be levelled to the ground and rebuilt after the current residents die off and no energy grants issued for it.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781720#Comment_118781720

In a standard open fire 80-90% of that heat is going up and out the chimney. Only thing you are warming is the outside

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781326#Comment_118781326

Wind, sun, water etc are all sustainable sources of energy.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782359#Comment_118782359

Well if fireplaces won't heat you - neither will renewables

Wind, sun, water etc are all sustainable sources of energy.

And not one of them is a reliable source of energy in our climate

And that's one reason we're now increasingly dependent on ever-increasing gas prices to try and keep the lights on.

And just to be sure that we are doubly hammered by an EU green model that's hikes electricity prices to the dearest component of energy sources used - the greens have not only have proposed laws that would see liquefied natural gas terminals banned, they've also recently put the boot in and banned any exploration for natural gas in our own territorial waters and then gloating about it

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/law-proposed-that-would-see-liquefied-natural-gas-terminals-banned-1.4806106

https://web.archive.org/web/20210202155316/https://www.greenparty.ie/green-party-welcomes-immediate-ban-on-new-oil-and-natural-gas-exploration/

Meanwhile in Norway - gas exploration is being expanded with 28 new licences recently issued

https://www.offshore-energy.biz/norway-offers-offshore-licences-to-28-oil-gas-firms-amid-great-interest/

We're only kidding ourselves with this current approach

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782359#Comment_118782359

Looked at with a cold cynical eye Michelangelo`s David is nothing other than a large piece of marble that could have been put to better use, yet anyone with a soul can look on it and appreciate the beauty and get joy from it.

When it comes to an open turf fire and a solar panel or wind turbine no such case can be made for a solar panel or a wind turbine.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782517#Comment_118782517

Just to note, Norway is scrambling to extract as much as possible due to the increasing resistance among the electorate of their role in the fossil fuel industry.

That resistance is growing year on year so don't be surprised if you see an announcement in the next few years about mass closures.

The electorate there are acutely aware of the hypocrisy of their grid vs their fossil fuel industry.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118783019#Comment_118783019

Ballcocks.

Natural gas supplies are recognised as essential for the transition to the use of unreliable renewable energy generation. The EU has already declared natural gas and nuclear as green energy sources for that reason. Norway also knows it can't be like Germany and be dependent on Russian gas supplies.

Norways government was elected only last year has committed to using its natural gas resources to do so and enjoyed significant support in doing so .

Meanwhile in Ireland the greens policy on our own reserves of natural gas has it stabbing us in both feet whilst simultaneously hitting us around the back of the head with a baseball bat.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118783019#Comment_118783019

Another load of make believe nonsense.

Last years general election in Norway saw the Green party there polling below 4%. The present government is a coalition of Labour, who are very wishy washy on the whole green agenda, and the Centre Party, that prevaricated over whether it believed Norway should be committed to the Paris Agreement.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781711#Comment_118781711

this amounts to "no yer mah"

finland have only gone back to turf cutting temporarily as they have some small deposits left that are economically viable to extract so they are extracting them but will not engage in it long term once those deposits are extracted.

we on the other hand have no economically viable deposits left.

lng is still gas so is effected by wholesale gas prices which are set internationally outside ireland, so even if we were to start importing lng it wouldn't make any difference seeing as the prices are and are going to continue to be crazy, so while we do use gas, we may as well just stick with natural gas and ultimately remove ourselves away from that as soon as we can.

it's going to happen, russia has shown us why relying on generally hostile and potentially hostile nations for expensive foscel fuels is unviable to continue.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118783121#Comment_118783121

Natural gas supplies are recognised as essential for the transition to the use of unreliable renewable energy generation.

No argument there, its widely acknowledged that NG is the least polluting of all the polluting fossil fuels so is a transition fuel. Makes total sense.

However, by the time 2050 rolls around, with ever increasing carbon taxes, NG will not be a commercially viable source of power without significant CCS infrastructure onsite at these power plants to capture the emissions at source. In addition, the massive scale up of renewables will make these even less viable.

The EU has already declared natural gas and nuclear as green energy sources

That is not settled yet with a lot of resistance within the EU to that. Indeed a number of countries already announced their intentions to challenge it in the courts.

It should also be noted that those declarations are time limited. The NG recognition is only to 2030 after which point it will be excluded from all future funding rounds. Nuclear has a longer chance at being out to 2040 but thats really only due to the farcically long lead time with construction being measured in decades rather than years.

As for Norway, its colossal sovereign wealth fund has already transitioned away from fossil fuels and moved billions into renewables

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2206472-norway-to-sell-off-fossil-fuel-stocks-worth-more-than-8-billion/

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118783945#Comment_118783945

it's going to happen, russia has shown us why relying on generally hostile and potentially hostile nations for expensive foscel fuels is unviable to continue.

Again we wouldn't have to only for the fact that the greens are making sure that we won't be allowed to exploit our own sources of natural gas, but also that gas supplies coming from the US will bypass us

https://m.independent.ie/business/world/ireland-to-miss-out-on-us-plan-to-supply-eu-with-gas-because-we-dont-have-a-terminal-41289645.html

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784078#Comment_118784078

The LNG project is a disaster, its not just the Greens who want nothing to do with it. The only TD's I have seen behind it is the Healy Rae clowns and that alone should turn everyone off it

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781604#Comment_118781604

"the fact is that the ripping off of the plaster now and highish costs that come with it is going to be much easier then the unaffordable cost of not bothering to do anything which would actually destroy our economy and irreparibly."

What are the consequences of your 'ripping off the plaster'? The sudden depopulation of rural Ireland? Except the sexy parts where you might want to on your summer cycle breaks? I assume in this that we will see no real change in government policy as regards the shrinkage of public services and public transport in rural Ireland. It's a basic fact of life here that you drive more & more & more to access facilities and services. Self fulfilling outcome.

Furze99

How about 'Reduce & Reuse' as a Green mantra? That would entail all, including urban dwellers consuming less and keeping, maintaining, fixing things. Including petrol & diesel cars, how Green is it to knacker these and get people to buy shiny new EVs with individual large carbon manufacturing footprints.

How about less heating in houses? Like back in the 50s, 60s, 70s - never did us much harm.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784057#Comment_118784057

Again much of what you write is greenspeak with little or any substance

If natural gas is indeed recognised as an essential transition fuel - why would the greens here try to prevent the country using those resources. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Renewables are by their nature unreliable. Ireland and Europe had first hand experience of that this winter.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-40787262.html

You claim that the designation of nuclear and natural gas is not settled. Again wrong. A small number of green looneys challenging that won't make any difference especially now that Europe faces huge deficit of energy sources in the wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine

THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION HAS announced that it backs giving a sustainable finance label to both nuclear power and natural gas to encourage investments it hopes will speed the transition to a greener economy.

https://www.thejournal.ie/eu-green-label-nuclear-gas-5671093-Feb2022/

As for Norway - the more renewables they invest in - the more the need for their own sources of natural gas to help stabilise the massive issues with reliability which comes with that renewable energy.

You can of course stick your head in the mud as much as you wish about renewables, the fact is the current model of total dependence on these forms of energy generation remains completely unviable and thankfully the EU is now waking up to that

?Cee?view

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781724#Comment_118781724

Or just ignore the upgrades and spend maybe a few hundred € extra a year to heat it instead of going into €130k debt. How anyone thinks this retrofit nonsense makes sense is beyond me.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784154#Comment_118784154

The Greens have stopped the LNG project along with other parties.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784150#Comment_118784150

"Right to repair" is a big Green policy. Also the advice from the Greens and Eamonn Ryan was not to swap out new cars just to buy electric, if you are swapping to a new car then consider Electric. Like Eamonn himself it is better to keep the car running.

In the same interview he was at pains to say the Greens are not recommending everyone to go out and buy solar PV, it all depends on your budget etc.

Not sure what you mean by less heating in houses?

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784087#Comment_118784087

It remains Ireland will need substantial quantities of Natural gas for the foreseeable future.

Meanwhile Ireland faces escalating prices from existing gas sources. Our own natural gas resources have effectively just been shut off and that and the ones screaming and roaring about preventing all LNG is the greens again. You'd swear they don't actually want people living in this country

You say its other parties banning LNG as well. Well no. Both the ban on natural gas exploration and LNG terminals have been Green Party policy for many years and was one of their core demands in their Programme for Government.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/law-proposed-that-would-see-liquefied-natural-gas-terminals-banned-1.4806106

And because they are the effective lynchpin in the coalition government- they get to railroad stupid stuff like this over national interests. That said even Varadkar has stated that LNG terminals will go ahead if they get planning permission. So there's some hope yet that the next government won't have to continue with this level of stupidity with regard to the programme of energy provision.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784154#Comment_118784154

Boy, a lot to unpack in that, umm, stream of consciousness, most of it wildly incorrect

If natural gas is indeed recognised as an essential transition fuel - why would the greens here try to prevent the country using those resources. It makes no sense whatsoever.

It makes no sense because you are misrepresenting the facts. Its hardly surprising that it is confusing in that case.

Renewables are by their nature unreliable.

Which is why you over build and spread them geographically, which is exactly what Ireland and others are planning to do. Again, simple when you look at it. You spread your generation across multiple sources (wind, solar, hydro, hydrogen, pumped storage, interconnectors etc) so when one is low, there is extra capacity in the others to compensate. Right now Ireland consumes on avg 6.5gw but we have plans for 6 times that in wind alone, never mind the rest.

You claim that the designation of nuclear and natural gas is not settled. Again wrong. A small number of green looneys challenging that won't make any difference especially now that Europe faces huge deficit of energy sources in the wake of the Russian invasion of UkraineYou claim that the designation of nuclear and natural gas is not settled. Again wrong. A small number of green looneys challenging that won't make any difference especially now that Europe faces huge deficit of energy sources in the wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine

And yet the facts say otherwise

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60229199

Currently Austria, Luxembourg and Spain are mulling legal action.

Its also not yet fully approved and there are still 3 months for the EU Parliament and Heads of State to object. Given the massive urgency and drive to remove Russian fuels from the EU grids, I think you can expect to see a growth in objections to NG being considered a green fuel. Time will tell, of course, and the situation is fluid due to Ukraine, but we'll know by June.

As for Norway - the more renewables they invest in - the more the need for their own sources of natural gas to help stabilise the massive issues with reliability which comes with that renewable energy.

Umm, again, facts indicate otherwise. The Norwegian grid has virtually no fossil fuels as part of its generation sources

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784285#Comment_118784285

We have a link to the UK which is a direct link into Europe.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784321#Comment_118784321

And what is happening in Europe atm?

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784378#Comment_118784378

Seriously, I think you listened to a story and got half of it.

FYI, what FG said is that they wouldn't obstruct the planning process, they are not supporting the plant and that is the party stance. You shoudl look around and people all over the World don't want the LNG. That might tell you something.

Anyway will leave you to it.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784307#Comment_118784307

Not at all. Simply showing that the future of energy generation based solely on renewables is simply not viable as demonstrated all over Europe this winter despite a significant existing geographic spread of renewable energy sources.

First though before going further, an answer to the question asked would be a start before dealing with the rest of the misinformation you've posted.

"If natural gas is indeed recognised as an essential transition fuel - why would the greens here try to prevent the country using those resources"?

And secondly what facts does that statement "misrepresent"? Making a generalised throwaway claim with no back up whatsoever does not help your argument.

The facts are that the greens here are preventing the future use of our own natural gas resources and being able to avail of a stable source of LNG gas imports to Europe

As stated a number a number of green interests may be against the necessary designation of gas as a green energy source - however with whats going on in Europe atm and all available gas resources in Europe now being essential to energy production means that those interests don't have a chance in hell of being successful in that challenge.

You'll also notice if you read what was written - that Norways future use of Natural gas in relation to investing in more renewable energy sources, but I will add also as an exporter of gas for use in other European countries who don't have Norways hydro electricity generation resources

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784399#Comment_118784399

I could easily make the same claim to your own comments.

Still no answer to why we just might need both our own natural gas resources and LNG terminals? No?

https://m.independent.ie/business/world/ireland-to-miss-out-on-us-plan-to-supply-eu-with-gas-because-we-dont-have-a-terminal-41289645.html