"Green" policies are destroying this country

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118838528#Comment_118838528

And that idea has been shown to be unfeasible MULTIPLE times and does not answer the question which has already been asked by many posters. And yet here you are repeating the same old.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118838643#Comment_118838643

Well again that proves you haven’t read any of the Green policies including the one on energy. You not think it’s a bit pointless complaining about a parties policy on energy and you haven’t even read it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118838587#Comment_118838587

😂 dark windless night in winter, you live in Ireland?

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118838819#Comment_118838819

Dark windless nights . . . Try and identify nighttime in Ireland for the last 30 days based on the peaks and troughs.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118838883#Comment_118838883

It’s spring plus our solar generation could have been impressive in the same period if we had any solar.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118838819#Comment_118838819

I read their policy on fracked LNG, which has now morphed into all LNG with their proposed bill that you believe the should collapse the government on if they do not get their way. Even though that was not what they agreed when signing the Programme for Government where it only quoted fracked LNG

Does that qualify as reading their policies on energy ?

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118838819#Comment_118838819

I'm right on the coast and we haven't had any wind all week.

RandomViewer

Old Johnny Bruton got refused planning for a 227 acre solar farm in Meath, must be serious issues when he couldn't get it through.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839005#Comment_118839005

A major component of the Green Partys stated Energy Policy is to reduce the country's reliance on imported energy which seems to fly in the face of the insistence of some of our green proponents that we should import all our natural gas from the UK rather than finding new sources of natural gas or use known but untapped reserves

And yet these are mainly the same who are using green party policy to bash everyone over the head with. Odd 🤔

Not too familiar with the GP policy but I know govt policy is to ramp up renewables to 80% by 2030. Gas power generation is only for the transition period and our needs can be fully met by Moffat therefore additional sources don't look like they are needed.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839260#Comment_118839260

Gas power generation is only for the transition period and our needs can be fully met by Moffat therefore additional sources don't look like they are needed.

The full transition period runs up to 2050 - nearly 30 years away. That's a lot of gas.

Have you proof that "our needs can be fully met by Moffat"?

Ireland currently relies on the UK for approx 70% of its gas supply, which is used primarily in energy generation to provide backup and base load generation when renewable energy generation fails or is significantly reduced due to adverse weather conditions.

The imported gas is mainly sourced from the North Sea, but also from Norway, parts of Europe and the Middle East with 5% of it coming from Russia directly.

It is also known that North Sea natural gas reserves are running out with the UK being forced to import almost three quarters of its gas by 2030

The UK are not obliged to supply Ireland with natural gas and in the event of shortages, Ireland could face shortages or even a cessation of supply in the event of increased domestic demands within the UK or a reduction in supply from Europe or elsewhere.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839546#Comment_118839546

The gp bots on here won’t address this because they don’t have an answer to this major flaw in their plan.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839635#Comment_118839635

Clarification, it's the govt plan

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118838457#Comment_118838457

No, It's only whataboutery when it's actually whataboutery

Whataboutery is where you try to justify your own bad actions because someone else has done other unrelated bad actions

I am saying that it's sometimes necessary to cause some harm in order to achieve a broader good.

All of the evidence I have seen on solar power is that over the full life cycle, it is many times better for the environment than burning the equivalent volume of fossil fuels to generate that same energy.

If you disagree with this, please supply some evidence. Although you said already you don't disagree with it, so you're just talking nonsense, like I said at the start.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118838430#Comment_118838430

That will all be done through the planning process. Every type of development involves trade offs. It goes without saying.

Everyone acknowledges we are still reliant on fossil fuels.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/6223e-climate-action-plan-2021/ the Climate action plan outlines the strategy to transition away from fossil fuels. This is too Conservative of a document imo, I think we need to be bolder and more ambitious and I think we are underestimating the speed at which these transitions can occur once they reach a tipping point

Ireland does not want to be at the laggards part of this curve as those are the people getting left behind

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118838508#Comment_118838508

We have 2 pipelines that can supply us with natural gas. In the meantime, we are going to be bringing on line multiple GWHs of Offshore Wind and solar, as well as finishing the interconnector to the north and Europe. By the time the LNG terminal is approved for planning, and commissioned, we won't need it anymore

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839260#Comment_118839260

Government policy is to close Tarbert next year and Moneypoint two years later, with the drop in productivity being made up by 8 new natural gas plants.

Out own supply of natural gas will be severely depleted by 2025, so all our natural gas will be via the Moffat pipelines.

Even ignoring the risks of total dependency on Moffat, Irish Green Party policy so far has seen any future exploration banned, and is seeking to ban all forms of LNG. A policy on LNG that supporters here believe, and a number of their elected representatives have voiced, that if they do not get their way on LNG then they should leave government. A policy if acted upon would means zero gas via the Moffat pipelines.

Are these two policies you agree with ?

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118838518#Comment_118838518

Then we can start burning the stockpiles of shite we have left over from this thread

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118838587#Comment_118838587

Lol. Yeah. Because our grid is run by incompetent idiots

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839829#Comment_118839829

Its still whataboutery no matter how you try to excuse it.

Destroying the natural environment here so you can posit it's not as bad as destroying the natural environment elsewhere is a bogus argument and you're attempting to defending the indefensible through false equivalence

The point I'm making is that there are good alternatives to the use agricultural land with hedgerows and trees which will be bulldozed as opposed to brownfield sites or suitable industrial locations for industrial scale solar farms.

And no we are not comparing renewables va fossil fuels as part of that whataboutery either.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118838650#Comment_118838650

Yes, We have the existing gas pipelines, and the North South interconnector should be online by 2026 as well as whatever offshore wind, solar and Grid storage solutions come on stream over the next 4 years

Our smart meter rollout will be almost complete by then and we will have the ability to make more efficient use of our existing generation capacity

Is it going to be 100% smooth sailing with no hiccups whatsoever? I doubt it. Is it going to be the existential crisis that the doom mongers on here are wailing about to justify extending our reliance on fossil fuels... no its not

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118838643#Comment_118838643

Well it's pointless responding to you because you're incapable of processing information, but the greens are not opposed to importing gas as we transition from fossil fuels. It's in the climate action plan 2021 that they fully supported.

they are opposed to building new fossil fuel infrastructure that will prolong our reliance on fossil fuels. And I agree with them

At the end of the day, if extending the lifespan of some fossil fuel power plants is essential to protecting our grid, the greens will allow for it, but that's a last resort, not a first resort as the fossil fuel propaganda outlets will lead you to believe.

There are plenty of viable alternatives.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118838681#Comment_118838681

And yet, we have never been cut off from the UK grid.

Guess what, the Northern Irish grid is reliant on the Irish grid to balance their demand and load. If the UK cuts us off, they'd be basically turning off the lights in Northern Ireland.

Now, I'm not saying that they wouldn't screw NI to save themselves, they probably would, but there would be severe consequences for them to make such a call.

And if we came to such a point, as long as critical infrastructure is protected, (hospitals, water treatment plants, sewage treatment, communications etc) brownouts would be an inconvenience that we would get over. California had rolling brownouts not so recently, and they're still happily chugging away as one of the biggest economies in the world.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839086#Comment_118839086

Get on your dinghy, row 30 miles offshore, and launch a balloon a couple of hundred metres into the air.

That balloon isn't going to stay above your dinghy.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839232#Comment_118839232

Thats not their policy, they want to connect to the EU grid and and become integrated with the European electricity market while we are also selling offshore wind into that grid while we have surplus, and buying energy from the grid when we are in deficit.

They do not promote energy independence, they promote an interconnected grid.

Part of the transition to this is that we close down the most polluting power stations first, and then wean ourselves off gas as renewables and interconnectors come on stream

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839843#Comment_118839843

What is with those who support green policy staring off into the future at maybes while ignoring the here and now.

The simple facts are that we are going to need fossil fuels, be that natural gas, coal or oil for many years to come because of the unreliability of renewables. For that we are going with natural gas for good reason. Between now and 2025 with an oil and coal burning plant being shut down the amount of natural gas needed is not going to decrease. After 2025 our own gas fields will be depleted as well. That leaves us totally dependent on Moffat for our supply. The very real risks of that arrangement have been well documented here, but none of that will matter if the Irish Green Party get their way and ban the import of LNG because we will not be getting anything via Moffat unless people want to pretend that there will be not just LNG in those pipelines, but fracked LNG.

In the real world if we are getting gas through those pipelines it will be predominately from LNG. If we are going to grow up and admit that, then should we not also grow up and at least explore the possibility of building or own LNG terminal which, would not just give us some autonomy of supply, (and if the greens are as worried about fracking as they say), the ability to source none fracked LNG?

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839978#Comment_118839978

Oh yes it is part of the gp energy policy

Go look it up

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839795#Comment_118839795

Will you stop.

It`s the Irish Green Party plan to stop us using any form of natural gas. The would not sign the Programme for Government unless exploration was banned and fracked LNG. They sponsored the bill on exploration and are now sponsoring a bill on banning LNG. Not just fracked LNG, all LNG.

No LNG = no Moffat = no natural gas. It`s as simple as that.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839908#Comment_118839908

No need to be so snarky.

The greens plan is to leave us dependant on gas coming in via the UK while refusing to look in our own waters for the duration of our transition to 100% renewable grid. Which will happen in 2050.

28 years away.

At least you acknowledge that.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839857#Comment_118839857

Stupid comment, contributes nothing.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839908#Comment_118839908

Absolute horse manure.

The Green Party have proposed a bill to ban LNG.

Anyone attempting to play the game that the Moffat pipelines in future will not contain LNG, is the equivalent of pissing down someones neck and telling them it`s raining.

No gas, then for us your viable alternatives are oil and coal. Neither great alternatives.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118839908#Comment_118839908

Well said, unfortunately I doubt the response will provide any useful information.