"Green" policies are destroying this country

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896245#Comment_118896245

They pretty much gave the same time scale for build as the German government did for their LNG terminals, and theirs are also going to be green hydrogen future ready

Personally I would not like to own a company that signed a contract with the German government and expected not to go bust if I didn`t come in on time on the contract.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896405#Comment_118896405

The time lines given was best case 2027,

Cough cough bs

May 2 2021

New Fortress Energy (NFE), a US-listed energy group, expects its €500m liquefied natural gas (LNG) terminal on the Shannon to be “online by the second half of next year”.

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/500m-shannon-lng-project-expected-in-2022-40373797.html

EVEN if initial development for some reason did take "3 years" that's 2025 NOT 2027!

Do they not teach basic addition any more?

Eitherway a completion date next year or the year beyond that is largely irrelevant. Because LNG is needed for a period of approx 30 years up till 2050 for the estimated period of transition to renewable energy generation

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896428#Comment_118896428

Hydrogen ready describes LNG terminals (in Germany) which can be later used for Hydrogen and therefore require additional facilities to handle same. Its not rocket science ffs

Also LNG adapted for hydrogen

"Ireland must consider without undue delay putting in place liquefied natural gas (LNG) infrastructure to ensure energy security for the State, according to Commission for the Regulation of Utilities (CRU) chairperson Aoife MacEvilly."

"This did not mean the country would be locked into fossil fuel infrastructure for decades to come, as LNG facilities could be adapted to cater for green hydrogen and help transition Ireland to a low-carbon future, she told the Oireachtas Committee on Environment and Climate Action on Tuesday."

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/ireland-needs-lng-infrastructure-to-ensure-energy-security-says-regulator-1.4839610

I don’t think I have ever seen posters with as much perseverance as I have in this thread!!

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896450#Comment_118896450

You've got it completely backwards

Ammonia can be piped and stored at a facility capable of processing LNG, but not the other way around

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896331#Comment_118896331

I've told you the same thing previously. . . .

The scheme works as follows: Working group 1 is told to provide the scientific basis for human caused global warming, the other two groups have to accept the findings of working group 1 and it’s from these other groups that the “we’re all gonna’ drown”, “go extinct due to roasting to death” unless we pay money to these special interest groups. There is an additional twist the IPCC committee releases a policy document for government first before the findings of working group 1 are released which must then be changed so there is no contradiction with the policy group.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896418#Comment_118896418

Get over yourself. I don`t know what you believe you told me but I was well aware of that proposed inter-connector long before I had any contact with you.

I have no idea where you are getting this 3 years from. The planning application for that inter-connector was only lodged on 14th.July 2021 and Eirgrid have given a completion date of late 2026. So with what you have had to say on planning permission, then 5 years until early 2027 was in my opinion being optimistic. An inter-connector that on present evidence if there in the morning would in all likelihood have nothing flowing through it during peak demand anyway.

Can you reply to any post that includes anything you are asked other than just accusing people of lying and posting incorrect information ? You just keep repeatedly doing it and looking foolish.

Why has Germany`s timeline for building their LNG terminals no relevance. Because they are paying out good money based on that timeline and you are just throwing around timelines because the German timeline does not suit your agenda ?

Yet again, no answer to the need for a secure energy source as identified by our own regulator that would also fulfill our E.U. commitments being other than LNG. No surprise there, but in case you are in any doubt, your silly little childish liar liar and incorrect information claims are fooling nobody that they are anything other than you or the green party not having any creditable alternative.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896559#Comment_118896559

Do you read anything that is written or just make it up as you go along and claim you're somehow correct?

Again.

Hydrogen ready describes LNG terminals (in Germany) which can be later adapted and used for Hydrogen and therefore require additional facilities to handle same. Its not rocket science ffs

Also LNG adapted for hydrogen

"Ireland must consider without undue delay putting in place liquefied natural gas (LNG) infrastructure to ensure energy security for the State, according to Commission for the Regulation of Utilities (CRU) chairperson Aoife MacEvilly."

"This did not mean the country would be locked into fossil fuel infrastructure for decades to come, as LNG facilities could be adapted to cater for green hydrogen and help transition Ireland to a low-carbon future, she told the Oireachtas Committee on Environment and Climate Action on Tuesday."

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896399#Comment_118896399

I believe that question has been asked and answered many times already. Possibly not to your satisfaction, but answered nonetheless

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896570#Comment_118896570

WG1 is probably the most scientific of the 3 IPCC working groups

WG1 is unequivocal that we have to keep as far as possible below 2c of warming

The code red for humanity still applies.

In fact we're deeper in code red now because we've less time to act

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896584#Comment_118896584

Tbh I find it incredibly odd how anyone outside being the mayor of London or similar can hang on to their own pronouncements in the face of evidence otherwise?

The only evidence of "3 years" for phase 1 for completion of the Shannon LNG terminal offered is a headline of a paywalled article. That the terminal itself will be online within a 2 year time frame is detailed fully here

https://m.independent.ie/business/irish/500m-shannon-lng-project-expected-in-2022-40373797.html

That France is now importing Electricity from its EU neighbours to cover its shortfalls, means that the likleyhood of France having excess to export to Ireland via any interconnector looks by any estimation to be increasingly doubtful imo.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/french-power-grid-operator-asks-users-cut-consumption-monday-2022-04-02/

The constant hangups on completion dates is risible tbf when a secure, safe and reliable source outside that of the Moffat Pipeline will be required up to 2050 and possibly beyond.

Regarding the building of an LNG terminal and possible timelines, to calculate the most time frame you need to consider all of the following.

Lets forget about how long construction might actually take and instead look at just the start date of construction.

Firstly the application is with ABP who have already pushed back the decision date and are very likely to do so again. This is not unusual with large, specialist projects. But let's say they stick with their schedule and grant permission in Sep 2022.

Next you will have an appeal. Note previous LNG applications in this area resulted in a decade or more of legal action which the objectors won.

So if there is an appeal, you can add on 2 years straight away. Now you're up to Sep 2024.

Then the result of the appeal will likely be appealed, another 2 years. Its now Sep 2026.

If the case involves a question over the application of EU habitat legislation or its translation into Irish law (not unusual), then you are looking at the case going to the Supreme Court with possible referral to the ECJ. Add on 18 months to 2 years. Let's say Jun 2028.

Lets say the ECJ rule in favour of the LNG terminal, the case goes back to the Irish Supreme Court for closing, add on 3-6 months. Now it's Dec 2028.

Now contractors need to be lined up, materials purchased, suppliers etc etc etc, a likely start date might be some time late 2029, early 2030 for ground preparation work. Whatever estimate you want to stick on here for actual construction, go ahead, my guess is 2 years, so an opening date of 2032.

By this stage we'll be at 80% renewables, with gas playing an ever decreasing role in terms of power generation and home heating.

But let's say it's gets built and opened just in time because the UK decide to keep all their gas for themselves (conspiracy theory dun dun DUNNNN!). Now we have a single point in the country to import LNG, which is in the hands of a private company who can set whatever price they want and we could do...... well sweet FA about it.

I just don't see the logic of it to be honest.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896602#Comment_118896602

You have already said that gas is going to be required until we achieve transmission to 100% dependable renewables.

Where have I missed the question that was answers so many times where we can achieve this with a secure source of gas that will concur with what our own regulator has said and we will be in compliance with E.U. rules other than LNG ?

Other than Ryan to stop acting the eejit and Barryroe coming on stream soon with enough natural gas to take us to that 100% transmission stage then I can not see any other possibility.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896627#Comment_118896627

Jfc the excuses get even more convoluted as the story is embellished and grows wings!

The only thing holding up the Shannon LNG terminal todate has been the objections of various green objectors. And they should be fooking ashamed of themselves at this point in time.

A new planning permission is in process and regardless that it's 2 or 3 years to the facility being online and pumping LNG - the terminal is needed ASAP to provide for a safe, secure and reliable source of natural gas for the period of transition to renewable energy generation up to 2050 and possibly beyond as advised by our own Energy Regulator.

And you know the funny thing? There are plans for more than one terminal in the pipeline! The horror 😱

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896608#Comment_118896608

What is so bewildering here is that even ignoring the Kerry private company timeline, its basically the same timeline for building an LNG as stated by the German government. A timeline as far as I recall, announced by a German Green party minister.

The inter-connector with Eirgrid having given a completion date of late 2026, where these timelines are coming from for a inter-connector on all present evidence would not have anything flowing through it in the morning if it was completed tonight is even more bewildering

It`s as if there are some here who have no answer to a secure energy source for the immediate future, (or indeed for many years to come), other than LNG or possibly Barryroe being able to supply our needs and are just throwing around timelines like snuff at a wake.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896655#Comment_118896655

True. There's also the daft excuses regarding LNG terminals owned by private companies allegedly setting prices at whatever price they like and "that we could do sweet FA about it"

There are already LNG terminals owned by private companie in Europe and like many imports, prices are generally set by market forces and in the case of the new agreement with the US it appears the price will be agreed across Europe.

European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen has also recently announced that Europe will set up a mechanism for the joint purchase of natural gas, in order to help bring down prices. The plan will use use the EU’s collective buying power to get a better deal from producers.

But more importantly the European Commission has also called for additional pipeline infrastructure and the ramping up of gas storage facilities as an essential insurance policy against supply disruption. 

And what are our greens doing? Tying themselves in knots and coming up with increasingly bizarre reasons why it can't happen and if it did how it would turn into Godzilla or something.

Its fcuking ridiculous at this stage and yet another example of how green policies make no sense whatsoever.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896214#Comment_118896214

Are you going to change tactics and answer the question for once?

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896208#Comment_118896208

There’s a difference between being 100% dependant on foreign gas via Moffat and the situation we have now where corrib provides at least 50% gas- as well you know.

The GP acknowledge we will need 83.1% of our final total energy to come from fossil fuels while at the same time banning exploration and refusing to open barryroe, therefore making us 100% dependent on foreign gas.

Why is that da cor? Are you happy with this situation?

Are angel, banana and Akrasia happy with this situation?

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896418#Comment_118896418

Are you quoting yourself here with regards to incorrect information?

Are you not the one telling us renewables can backup up those variable renewables 😂😂😂

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118895983#Comment_118895983

The French interconnector won’t help if France have no energy to spare- you might not have realised that so that’s info for free.

You are correct in saying the quickest way we can ramp up generation is via wind and solar, which is great on a windy day in summer, however not brilliant on a calm day in winter where we need gas.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896570#Comment_118896570

WG1 assesses all of the relevant scientific literature published over the entire review period and does a meta analysis on that data. Its the most comprehensive assessment of the evidence on this topic that exists and that assessment is done by the individuals who are best placed to perform that assessment with years of field and academic experience.

If you don't think an assessment of All the relevant scientific evidence is enough to convince you that, then nothing ever will

Well, apart from youtube channels run by nobodies without any expertise in the subject matter, cause they're legit....

If you disagree, tell me what evidence would actually change your mind.

Akrasia

If france run out of energy then we'll likely have bigger problems than rolling brown outs

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896888#Comment_118896888

We're not 100% dependent. We have a strategic oil reserve, we have installed wind capacity, we have hydro, we will have grid scale batteries very soon, we have the interconnector to the UK via Northern Ireland and the east west interconnector and will have the French interconnector before Corrib goes offline....

So it's not 100% reliant on Moffatt

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896888#Comment_118896888

we are 83% dependent on fossil fuels now. In 2025, that percentage will be lower, by 2030 that percentage will be much lower still

I think we can easily beat our projected rollout speeds for renewables as long as the investment is there.

Mitchells33

https://waterford-news.ie/2022/04/07/cloneas-resounding-no-to-proposed-solar-farm/

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897082#Comment_118897082

Literally Nimby objections

They like their view they have now and don't want it to change

Problem is, change is happening regardless. I bought a house less than 10 years ago, since then, more houses have been built nearby, new roads, roundabouts etc

When I was a kid I lived next to a woodland, the man who owned the land died and someone bought it and cleared the entire woodland, no planning required, but my local environment was changed completely

If land use needs to change from pasture to solar farms and substations need to be built, some locals will see changes to their area that they do not like. This is the world we live in, any development involves this

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897082#Comment_118897082

Not sure what the point of dropping a link into a thread with no point of view on the link?

Do you want to explain something about the link?

I would warn you Ireland is full of people who reject everything, as we know in the middle of a housing crisis and nearly every development is rejected by locals who are on the TV 10 mins later complaining they have no houses for their kids. Now if you can explain that to me you are a better person than me

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896871#Comment_118896871

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896897#Comment_118896897

Let try this again. I answered your question. Other have answered your questions. I even went to the trouble of going back over the thread and giving you the post number with the answers.

I gave you the policy document multiple times and you never read it, when you did you couldn't understand it. I gave you the advice to contact your local Green Party TD/councillor and you ignored it.

Now you are posting the same question multiple times and keep adding the same question back into the thread by quoting yourself.

I am sure you will start pointing the finger at me again but unfortunately it doesn't matter if everyone answers the question because based on previous you will ignore and be confused.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897197#Comment_118897197

Its very simple, they want the houses, but they want them to be in someone else' back garden

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118897040#Comment_118897040

The whole point of the France interconnect is that we are connected to the European grid and not just France. Before Brexit we had a link to the UK and during the Brexit negotiations they actually put a link from the UK into France. It was on a TV program,

So we will have a connection direct to France and also a connection into the UK and into France via UK. Once we can connect we are connected to the entire European grid. Hence the plan I mentioned weeks ago from companies like Mainstream in the early 2000's to have a European supergrid with renewables driving the grid.