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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    You don't believe science, you've picked random occurance that reinforce what you think to be true. Climate science ignores the average mundane readings, temperature,rainfall etc..and pushes once in a decade anomalies as the reality



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    I agree we should never just hand out license or test new equipment without proper testing

    So your saying it's no different from all those companies building wind and solar farms in sensitive environments, but bizarrely not a peep about those?

    You obviously do not know that the requirements for licences of oil and gas exploration require rigourous monitoring and independent assessment.

    The company holding the licence for Barryroe will contract drilling requirements to specialised companies for the necessary drilling as and when necessary

    But because the greens are deliberately holding up Ballyroe - the company at this point in time unfortunately have no need of a drilling company, until at least Mr Ryan takes his finger out.

    But don't let any of those facts stop you throwing sh**te at the idea of Ireland being able to use its own untapped natural gas reserves to help provide a safe, secure and reliable source of natural gas in conjunction with imported LNG while some choose to burn dodgy coal because that's "different"

    Post edited by Mecanudo on


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    That is know as due diligence which should be carried out by the authority issuing a license.

    Simple question that even you should be able to answer : has Eamon Ryan`s department carried out this due diligence process and if not then why not as his department would be the licensing authority ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Facts?

    Post number 1: The Ballyroe gas field has a published timeline of between 1-2 years.

    Post number 2: I corrected that they're already in procession of an exploration licence and are moving to the next phase of final appraisal (with an published timeline of 1-2 years) which is the date given for that phase ie 2023 and not 2026 as you stated. 2026 is the expected Extraction date following the current phase.

    😂

    With each post the "facts" seem to change.

    I doubt you have any idea what the requirements are for oil and gas exploration because previously on this very thread you posted about giving them the license, "what harm could it do" or something similar

    Now because I have pointed out they have no drilling company with them you have again changed the story again to suggest you know about the process. Facts is something you have failed to provide at any stage.

    Again I raise the question, which political party is supporting this company or Barryroe?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    You should ask @Mecanudo as they claim to have knowledge of the process.

    Simple question, which parties are backing Kerry LNG?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Facts! You originally came up with the idea that Barryroe wouldn't be operational until 2030* for some bizarre reason!

    Facts! Before that you didn't even know the Barryroe oil and gas field existed lol.

    Facts! If you had bothered to check your "facts" - all information is already published online by the relevant bodies in charge of oil and gas exploration.

    Facts! Bizarrely you believed the company in charge of Barryroe were only applying for their "exploration" licence with an a date for 2026 for that 😅🤣😂

    Facts! because what you've claimed has been pointed out to be complete rubbish- there's absolutely no need to make up additional **** about something you didn't even know existed just a couple of weeks ago.

    So again

    But don't let any of those facts stop you throwing sh**te at the idea of Ireland being able to use its own untapped natural gas reserves to help provide a safe, secure and reliable source of natural gas in conjunction with imported LNG while some choose to burn dodgy coal because that's "different"

    *Edit

    Post edited by Mecanudo on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    No I didn’t

    Barryroe at this stage I said would probably be 2027 as they have no license

    No need to lie again



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    No, you are just choosing to ignore the E.U. directive that doesn`t suit your agenda.

    If you are going to ignore E.U. directives on energy then why stop at that one, why not also ignore the marginal pricing directive ?

    Even the E.U. recognise at this stage it is being used by renewable energy companies to fleece consummers



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    And why does Barryroe have no license? Hmmm nothing to do with Mr Ryan stonewalling the company perhaps?

    But my bad that was you claiming 2030 🤣😂

    Not "2027" as per your recent post!


    A LNG plant or a gas field will be 2030 before it can help

    "No need to lie again"

    Post edited by Mecanudo on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    So in other words you are again spoofing about something you know nothing about.

    Why would I care which party is backing a private LNG terminal proposal.

    I have told you often enough now for it to have sunk in for even you, that as far as I`m concerned, like those favorites of the the Irish greens we were encouraged to follow, Germany, we should be building our own LNG terminal. A trminal that would cost less than 0.4% of our structural budget for this present decade.

    Germany certainly aren`t piddling around like our green muppets attempting to ban LNG. They are now going to use floating LNG terminals and are looking at importing LNG as early as this Winter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    The key is the acolytes use of the definitive article "The Science". The following quote is from Frank Furedi s 2018 book, culture of fear in the 21st century to provide some context for its use.

    The development of science relies on an open-ended orientation towards experimentation and the testing of ideas.


    Science is an inherently sceptical enterprise and its findings are provisional, open to reinterpretation. That's the theory. But in public controversies over policy and related matters, science often comes across as a moralizing project The language used by Al Gore constantly leaps from the scientific to the moral, which is why he could assert that scientific evidence offers "Inconvenient Truths", Gore's version of science has more in common with the art of divination than with genuine experimentation Gore and many others have adopted a defensive version of science that constantly targets doubts and uncertainties, and their moralized interpretation of science is one where findings have a fixed, unyielding and unquestionable quality.


    Frequently, they prefix the term science with a definite article, using "The Science" to assert claims about a variety of threats. Statements like "The Science says" serve as the twenty-first-century equivalent of the exhortation "God said".


    Unlike science, the term "The Science" serves a moralistic and political project. It has more in common with a pre-modern revealed truth than with the spirit of experimentation that emerged with modernity. The constant refrain of "Scientists Tell Us" serves as a prelude for a lecture on what to fear.


    The use of the term "The Science" in public debates expresses its advocates' insecurity with the absence of certainty. This leads to a defensive posture where scientists are reluctant to entertain the possibility that they might be wrong and that their critics might have a point. Sadly, a science that cannot work with the assumption that it might be wrong has more in common with a religious dogma than with open-ended experimentation.


    Such moralization of the imperative of fear has important implications for the conduct of public life. By representing scepticism and criticism as a threat that deserves to be feared, disciples of "The Science" set in motion a cultural dynamic that is inherently hostile to the free and open exchange of views. As we explain later, a palpable sense of intolerance towards freedom, particularly towards free speech, IS intimately connected to the working of the culture of fear.


    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    We will follow the EU directive, but it will take time to build the infrastructure to be energy secure through renewable energy and interconnectors with the EU.

    Ireland is not any less energy secure than we were before Brexit happened. Brexit caused Ireland to be non compliant by a technicality and the EU are not pursuing us in this regard

    It's a red herring

    The UK are not going to shut off the gas supplies to Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Attempting to have a discussion with you is like watching an episode of The Twilight Zone. It only makes sense if you suspend belief in reality.

    At least you now know how much natural gas we currently have and that following the idiotic greens intentions in 3 years time we will be totally dependent on an unsecure source from a country whose own supply is diminishing rapidly and are under no obligation to keep us supplied.

    Your 3 years to build this infrastructure is pie in the sky. The only increase in renewable electricity supply for the 3 years 2017 - 2020 has been through wind, which has shown just how unreliable it is. That increased from 25.4% in 2017 to 33.5% in 2020. An 8.1% increase over those years, yet here you are peddling some magic potion that will give us 100% reliable renewable energy in 3 years without us needing fossil fuel back-up.

    It`s complete nonsense.




  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Those who disagree with the overwhelming scientific consensus on a matter so serious as Anthroprogenic Climate change need to provide extremely strong evidence to show why the consensus is wrong and they are right

    Otherwise, they're cranks and conspiracy theorists and have nothing sensible to add to the discussion.

    And in a fact that should surprise absolutely nothing, one of the few publishing climate scientists who doesn't agree that climate change is a serious threat, happens to be a deeply religious creationist, who believes that god will step in and save us before it gets too serious

    (Dr Roy Spencer is heavily involved with the 'Cornwall alliance' here https://cornwallalliance.org/landmark-documents/the-cornwall-declaration-on-environmental-stewardship/ )



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Do you really think Ireland will be shut off from Moffat at any point in 2025, or 2026, or 2027 etc.

    Our energy security position is the same now as it was 2 years ago. The sudden rush to to open more fossil fuel infrastructure is just a panic response over the high price of gas due to Russia's actions in Ukraine. The UK and Ireland are not reliant on the Russian Pipelines for our gas unlike Germany who do face a genuinely acute crisis as their one of their primary energy sources could realistically be switched off at any time

    Ireland needs to speed up the implementation of our existing plan. We have taken step one by streamlining the maritime planning process, we need to do more to speed up development to ramp up our ability to generate our own electricity and end our reliance on expensive, dirty and politically volatile oil and gas



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    When did E.U. directives become a pick and mix where you can choose which one suits and follow when you feel like it ?

    If that is the case then why would we not go the full hog and ignore the marginal pricing directive and have cheaper electricity when we are at it ?

    How many countries in Europe felt that Russian nationalist jingoism would not have any effect on the supply of natural gas from Russia ?

    Ireland is much more less energy secure than before Brexit for the simple reason the U.K. is now thanks to Brexit, no longer a member of the E.U. and as such has no obligation to supply us with natural gas. Especially with their own fields becoming depleted, and there is no way the E.U. can seek to compel them to do so.

    The E.U. may not presently be actively seeking to have us comply with the secure energy directive, but if our shower of green idiots in government get there way on banning LNG, a recognised transitional energy source by the E.U., then I cannot see that lasting.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,069 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    We are in no better a position than the rest of Europe was regarding Russia.

    Worse if anything as Russia had no shortage of gas to sell whereas the U.K`s own fields are rapidly heading toward depletion.

    If you could just take a look at reality rather than pie in the sky ideas based on absurd timelines and fingers crossed on energy supply it really would help.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel



    If you don't care about which party then why do you spend so much time complaining about the Green Party?

    As you are surely aware now no political party is behind Kerry. So remove the Greens and the next party will still reject it.

    Now as I said you have discussed it exhaustively and you have added nothing new to the conversation. Do we need to go on about Kerry LNG when it will NEVER happen?



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The directive does not specify how we are to become energy secure, building offshore wind and interconnectors with the EU will satisfy the directive



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Those photos are about emotion, emotion and emotion. They are not a logical presentation of facts linked by you to any IPCC science. Scientists will discuss such events in terms of statistical probability over time. You don't do that.

    If states don't manage a forested area with controlled burns then it's population should not be surprised when it goes up in an inferno because of all the dead material available that has not been cleared. When houses are built on flood plain owners are often surprised when the property is inundated with water when the statistical 100 year flood happens.    Most urban populations have expanded into these areas in the post world war II era, the population being recent arrivals have no memory of similar events that happened outside living memory in the previous century. 

    A recent project by volunteers in the UK and Ireland to collate data from the 19th century paper records revealed many weather events that set records that had been unavailable since modern recording began.  Most of the worlds weather data recording only began with the growth of air travel in the 20th century. Prior to that weather data recording is few and far between only really gaining traction in the latter half of the 19th century.


    What you are looking is temperature data from Valentia Island observatory, which is one of the few rural stations that has a long data sequence not affected by urban heat island effect. The measurements switch between periods of cooling and warming. Yet the narrative presented in the media does not reflect this.

    NASA then takes that data set in their GISS data set and homogenises it (i.e. mixes other station data, including from Paris) such that all temperatures prior to 1967 have been arbitrarily reduced by 0.4C. There is nothing in the actual Valentia temperature record to suggest any break points. This becomes garbage in garbage out when fed into computer models.  There is no skill in the climate models to project future temperatures or weather patterns, it is acknowledged they run too hot when compared with real world empirical recorded data. The models value for prediction of future trends is 0.

    Because your methodology is flawed you cannot tell us with any level of certainty what future temperatures will be.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The UK gas is not 'rapidly depleting' and they also have pipelines to Norway which also aren't rapidly depleting

    The bullsh1t scaremongering that the UK will shut the irish off is nonsense



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Told you before. The so called consensus is merely politics disguised as science.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Absolute nonsense

    It's always used by people who have an angle.

    The bigger risk to the UK connection for gas is a ship sinking and managing to sink right down and break the line. Chance of that happening?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    From the king of scaremongering. Were all going to die, die i tell you!.

    Boris johnson? Donald trump? le pen? Do you realise we are 1 foreign election away from being fucked? Are you oblivious to the fact we need a secure energy supply and not to be relying on extremely volatile external factors.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Can you link to where this guaranteed please.

    Your naivety astounds me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    We are talking about an extreme cold weather scenario that is not being modelled under the National risk assessment (NRA) because their assumption is it will be warmer after 2050 so the scenario is rated by the CRU (page 13) using an internal Eirgrid report as unlikely. DSU = demand side units.

    • Based on a cold still winter’s day, with little wind for the peak demand period, conditions lasting 1 week
    • NRA finds likelihood to be once in 10 to 100 years; has occurred recently but considered less likely in 2050
    • Likelihood set to unlikely
    • Impact set to critical:
      • No system-wide blackout but reasonable to assume some level of rota load shedding
      • Regular use of DSUs but possible consequent reduction in availability over the week
      • Cooling of conventional plant will be a concern based on 2009/10 and 2010/11 winter where many generators had issues
    • Cross-border dependency is major, considering interdependencies with NI and possible impact on interconnector flows as weather simultaneously affecting GB

    In another CRU report.

    In the cold periods of January and December 2010 a combination of production and storage gas from Kinsale contributed 16% of Ireland total demand. Without this source of gas, the Moffat entry point would have been strained and unable to deliver the gas required to meet the demand.


    As has been pointed out the yield from Corrib gas field starts to decline after 2025 increasing the dependency on Moffat which is capacity constrained. In event of a period of extreme cold weather than can last a month or two in Ireland gas stocks in both Ireland and the UK will be run down. Is the probability derived from the National risk agency or Eirgrid correct? We don't know how the person responsible for the NRA calculations determined their probabilities, but it looks like they may be relying on computer model fiction.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    You forgot a few years.

    2028, 2029, 2030, all the way up to 2050 which is when we will need gas until.

    Yes there is a good chance over 26 years our gas could be stopped coming in via Moffat as the UK government decide they want electricity for their people as opposed to letting them go without but looking after ourselves.

    Again your naivety astounds me! Why would a UK government look after us on the event of a gas shortage at the expense of their own people! There’s no votes in it and there’s be blood on the streets over there!



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Of course all this goes out the window if global warming leads to the shutoff of the Gulf Stream and Ireland actually ends up colder post 2050!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭Mecanudo


    Lol. Thats the single most bizarre piece of logic I've encountered to date

    So we know the green party are objecting to the LNG terminal. They are also responsible for the hold up of the Barryroe gas field care of Mr Ryan inexplicably stonewalling the company

    But you say if we "remove the greens" (yippee!) then the "Next party will still reject" the Shannon LNG project?

    That's complete rubbish!

    Leo Varadkar is on record in the article below stating that the "government will not block the project" if it gets planning permission. The same article also details that "Eamon Ryan had intervened directly in the planning application for Shannon LNG, telling An Bord Pleanála that it should not be permitted"


    So nope that mad theory that the government partys are all reading from the same book doesn't hold water I'm afraid 😅

    That you personally think that Shannon LNG "won't go ahead" is neither here nor there.

    And in a thread titled "Green" policies are destroying the country" - in all probability it will continue to be discussed and the Green Party will be the subject of even more criticism, despite protestations otherwise

    *Partial paywall so quoted relevant bits.





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