Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

"Green" policies are destroying this country

Options
13323333353373381062

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    It's not in the least interesting. The joke is fusion is 30 years away and always has been. The greens and their fellow travellers know that their preferred schemes wind, solar, hydro are incapable of sustaining a modern infrastructure. That's why you see all these magic energy schemes being recycled in press releases (fusion since the 1950s).

    Let me tell you about their latest perpetual motion scheme, the hydrogen economy, you know getting hydrogen from water? Easy! Just use electrolysis. Run electricity through the water, and it just disassociates into hydrogen and oxygen. Nothing to it. Oh, wait. The amount of energy that you use up separating the hydrogen from the oxygen is less than the amount that you get back when you burn the hydrogen back to make water again. It has to be that way. Otherwise you would have a perpetual motion machine. In other words, there is no possible way that hydrogen generated from water by electrolysis can be a better way to get energy than just using the electricity (generated from another source, usually burning hydrocarbons) that was the input to the electrolysis. It’s the second law of thermodynamics.

    Only in green fantasy world can you get elected then make your own laws to command the tides and bend the laws of physics to your will. The reality is more sinister, the random energy industry (Wind & solar) needs a way to keep the subsidies going longer so they push the illusion that they can turn water into hydrogen . . .



    You notice all these schemes for alternative fuels rely on the taxpayer. The problem, without cheap, reliable energy, the government can't tax us to the extent they do today.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    All of the above I agree with you on.

    Have virgin media reported on the Dutch farmers predicament either?

    We really are kept in the dark here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭charlie14




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,143 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I think they'd be better off reporting on this kind of thing, Donegal and Ireland have become the dumping ground for the north's manure, much to the detriment of our land and waterways




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,143 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Because no one cares about farmers protesting in Holland, do you think our farmers were on the news there when they blocked roads in Dublin a couple of years ago?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    I assume it also affects hydro and thermal due to depletion of groundwater. Green tech also affected.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Yeah hydro doesn't work when there's no rain or meltwater

    Anything that involves boiling water to turn turbines is vulnerable to water shortages. Nuclear, however is especially vulnerable as they tend to be multiple gigawatt facilities that require enormous quantities of water

    Wind and solar do not rely on water to operate



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,143 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    some evidence of one bullet or something? but yeah still, I doubt anyone gives a sh*t, they are more interested in the Boris circus. What do you think they're doing, covering something up?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Solar does cleaning them every 2 weeks depending on dust or pollution levels. huge amount of water in a drought if you got tons of panels. or there is a sharp drop off in power generation. So wind I would wager is the only one not affected.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,074 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I would not be too sure that nobody cares about farmers protesting in Holland. A quick Google shows it is being reported by numerous and varied media outlets worldwide, and I doubt there are many farmers in the E.U. who are not aware of the green agenda b.s.that has resulted in these protests.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Wind and solar are wholly reliant on gas.

    It does not matter how many turbines or solar panels you have on the grid when there no light or wind they generate nothing and must be 100% backed up by a combination of gas, coal and nuclear (via inter-connector). All these guys talking about batteries and pumped storage can never make-up the regular failures of gas and solar. Remember batteries don't generate power, after conversion losses they store it and are necessary on the grid to manage the unexpected fluctuations in the afore mentioned technologies while other reliable generation sources are bought on-line. Pumped storage is an economics play, relying on cheap night power generation and used to meet demand surges in the morning. Pumped storage fails technically during extreme cold spells and the economics of it become doubtful with more solar being put on the grid due to the solar "duck curve".

    Electricity demand is predictable, depending on random weather events on the other hand is increasing expensive to manage.



    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    They are now but when we modernise our grid gas will be completely redundant for electricity.

    You are completely wrong about BESS and other energy storage solutions.

    It will still be in the mix for central heating and cooking but that's a small percentage of our current Gas demand



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Where is the costed plan for that? In what timeframe? Is it after we pay on the triple for wind turbines, grid enhancements, and an entirely new (and as yet unavailable) hydrogen infrastructure? How does it square with the availability of various commodities? Renewables use between four and forty times the amount of copper compared to fossil fuel plants. Copper has been trading at over $10,000 dollars per tonne in the past year for the first time in history, up 600% in 20 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,044 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Do you see how they operate? Always some pie in the sky or solution just behind the corner. Enviro green wet dream on steroids.

    This is so incredibly naïve and honestly, I have no clue how anyone can believe something like this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    They are telling you why they are putting in batteries, random energy is destabilising grid operations and grid management and infrastructure costs are increasing as a direct consequence. Do you know what is involved with solar on the grid? at night you need reliable power sources that must be rapidly spun down as the sun rises, then when the sun sets they must be spun up rapidly again - that is expensive and a complex operation because the both wind and solar are diffuse and intermittent.

    Greencoat commissions Fluence battery storage system for Irish wind farm

    The proprietary Gridstack product is designed for frequency regulation, flexible peaking capacity and enhanced transmission and distribution services. It also includes intelligent controls and an edge-to-cloud communication platform for faster frequency response.


    RWE’s largest battery storage project goes live in Monaghan, Ireland

    Deployment of battery storage like Lisdrumdoagh, will be capable of a rapid response to frequency changes, importing or exporting electricity from the grid as needed, and helping efficiently stabilise the grid, while guaranteeing reliable electricity supply for users.


    Ireland's First Synchronous Condenser System to Stabilize Irish Grid

    The synchronous condenser, a key component of the ESB's Green Atlantic @ Moneypoint project, will be the first in the country and incorporate the world's largest flywheel used for grid stability. The facility will enable an increased integration of wind power into the Irish grid by providing sufficient inertia for frequency support, short-circuit power for system strength, and reactive power for voltage control. Commissioning of the new plant is planned for mid-2022.


    EirGrid, Electricity and Turf (Amendment) Bill 2022: Second Stage

    However, the most immediate factor affecting security of electricity supply in Ireland over the coming years is a potential generation capacity shortfall that was identified in EirGrid's all-island generation capacity statement published in September 2021. This potential capacity shortfall arises in periods of peak demand when there are low levels of wind generation and interconnection available to the system. The shortfall has arisen largely due to non-delivery of previously contracted capacity, increasing electricity demand and the increasing unreliability of existing plant.


    What is happening in Ireland is happening across Western Europe (Critically nuclear in France because they export power to their neigbours) and to an extent the USA, but also Canada and Australia. The old plants have come to the end of their design life and they are are being run down with no new investment. They are NOT designed to work efficiently with intermittent, diffuse and costly generation schemes. To try and counteract that the CRU in Ireland has to pay gas plants to provide standby capacity. Every one of those turbines have to be replaced after 20 years, do our think they can put in bigger turbines on site? The existing concrete and steel foundations are not designed for that. There is the nuts idea to put turbines out to sea on the Atlantic, the lifespan of turbines at sea is probably around 12 years if that, the maintenance costs of equipment at sea rise rapidly. None of this is cheap.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    I don't have TV so I can't tell you what's on. The issue is the largest media distributors in this country remain uncritically silent (green washing) on the trade offs being forced on Irish citizens and people who live on this island in pursuit of green policies. It was the same during the property boom, stick your head up and ask awkward questions, the vested interests and their accomplices in media shout you down.

    It's only now that we are being presented with the bills we are starting to ask awkward questions, like how has the price of wind gone up? When you say you are a 100% renewable electricity generation company yet your prices have risen several times with more on the way, how come?

    What most people don't know is the electricity generation crisis have been building for a while, the reserve generation capacity is being removed, the intention is to shut the coal plant by 2025, the Corrib gas field output peaks in 2026, South Dublin needs an overhead high voltage line to pipe electricity in, and the infrastructure does not exist to support many high voltage rapid charging stations for these million BEVs they are planning by 2030. They don't realise that one of the consequences of Green policies is to force everyone from consuming primary sources of energy to a secondary source: electricity. Yet data centres are the evil villain . . . not the green policies.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    You're gas. In the middle of a post saying that the grid can't rely on renewables because of variability you post loads of links to grid services that make these sources viable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    No.

    you don’t care about it. Doesn’t mean others don’t care about it.

    That’s a very narrow vision you have.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 29,307 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    shur they keep quoting questionable sources, such as richard tol etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,200 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    if it was just about money or taxes I wouldnt be interested either, but their government hobbling their farmers does peak my interest a little, especially at a time of incompetent leadership by countries like Germany coming into sharp focus.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,569 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Take away the gas, random generation is no longer viable. All those are sticking plasters put in to stop the turbines and solar panels collapsing the grid due the lack of system inertia, as provided by conventional plants. Inertia is essential for the grid to cope with constant changes in demand and supply. Currently the grid can cope with the small amounts of wind power on the system, since the intention is to take the thermal plants off-line and more wind capacity added, the problem of inertia becomes greater.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,377 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    I think the synchronous flywheel in moneypoint is due to address this very issue.

    Thans coming online soon enough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    The dutch farmers in the late 2000s and early 2010s went on a massive herd expansion and there nitrate levels went through the roof as a results.. Numbers had to be cut which meant culls. Same thing of sorts happened here there was a big drive on the back of Harvest 2020 targets set by Enda and FG and now look. Same things are happening again SF calling for all sorts of short term things but they haven't calculated the net results.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    There are things called interconnectors to solve that



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Again more self-guilt syndrome. If someone sells you a knife for cooking and you decide to stab your neighbour instead, it's on you. Not the shop.

    So typical of left leaning talk - always socialise the problems of the few.

    Minimum Alcohol Pricing a prime example. Carbon taxes another.

    High time the consequences of this way of thinking was visited precisely on those who advocate it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Using inertia for grid stabilisation is one solution to the problem. There are 21st century solutions for modern grids



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 22,408 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia



    just to answer the frequent claims that solar energy isn't worth the initial investment in manufacturing them

    This includes all of the life cycle including mining and processing the raw materials, shipping installation and maintenance



Advertisement