"Green" policies are destroying this country

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081236#Comment_118081236

You don't get it ,do you? A 4 door Porsche is for a 75year old accountant, Greens have no knowledge of normal people's lifestyles ,do they?

Spudmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079842#Comment_118079842

And they eat avocados. Lots of them apparently....

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080621#Comment_118080621

I think this is an over simplification. It would work this way if all countries increased their tax in unison. In reality the commodity is traded on a global market at some price dictated by supply and demand. So if Ireland increases tax on fuel, it will be more expensive in Ireland for consumers. The producer will set their price based on maximizing returns over the next 10 or 20 years. Important factors would be the reserves they have and the projected costs of extraction and the projected demand. Then increases or decreasing supply based on those factors.

I think it's obvious that Ireland is far too dependant on importing energy. It's probably the biggest issue the country faces this century. Two things are important for prosperity, the cost/security of energy and the ratio of conversion of energy to higher value products. I'd say we are great at the latter and very poor at the former.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080586#Comment_118080586

Yes, there's a world of difference between the Green Party now and the Green Party I was in, when Patricia McKenna and others were around. They've embraced some form of technological urban based future.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081924#Comment_118081924

McKenna was another headbanger.

joeysoap

five years ago NI motorists filled up in the south. Then we had carbon taxes, so it stopped happening.

I live 5 kms from Forkill (Armagh) and I see the Brits have frozen petrol prices so I know where I am going in the near future

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079842#Comment_118079842

Being outspoken doesn't solve problems, it generates antagonism and very often leads to intransigence. We've moved past the the outspoken phase now anyway. Now we need plans, steps to take and costs to the the public, who need to be persuaded to get onboard. It really is no longer good enough to speechify and lob demands at politicians to address or to take issue with people who seem to be getting in the way of a set of beliefs.

tayto lover

RTÉ are at it again. Pushing the Green agenda.

Some old farmer in the mountains of Kerry was given a free electric car to test and he’s on spouting about how great it is.

I wonder who in the ESB or RTÉ he’s related to.

Hardly a charger around my area yet we’re all being pushed as hard as possible to go green.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118081471#Comment_118081471

'Normal People's lifestyles'

'Normal people' aren't buying 90k cars, or 120k cars

'Normal people' wouldn't turn their nose up at a feckin porsche because it doesn't suit their image

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117966492#Comment_117966492

And what infrastructure upgrades do we need to support this? How much will it cost? Remember the plan calls for nearly a million battery powered electric vehicles (BEV). Imagine a typical suburban estate where everyone returns from work, his and her cars, they plug in the BEV after 9PM (to avoid peak usage charges) what will happen to the local distribution network when this clustering effect occurs?

Add more than one electric car to the same local transformer (charge clustering) and overloading is more likely to occur. This causes damage to the electrical equipment which reduces the lifespan and can result in outages and added costs. The risk of overloading local transformers is particularly high during peak hours. When all electric vehicles owners in a single area recharge at the same time. . . .

It’s going to take smart charging apps that book your charging slot according to assorted criteria – trying to share out the local cable capacity, which is going to be a major constraint, as well as the general level of load at the grid level, and the availability or not of surplus wind etc. The tariffs will be highly variable. You may be permitted a 3kW trickle charge for no premium, which is probably good enough for a short distance commuter.

But who knows were we will end up if we have days of €400/MWh day ahead prices? Add in another €100-150/MWh for the other elements of the electricity bill and you’re looking at higher mileage costs than a diesel.

All the above is without considering electrifying heating with heat pumps. Is the local infrastructure present to support this increased demand with 600,000 heat pumps targeted in the next 8 years.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083779#Comment_118083779

Why would everyone plug in? They have 60-70kWh battery so maybe once a week a car in Dublin will need a charge which as we can already use is free Saturday for charging

In 2019 there were 2.2 million cars on the road. If all those cars were allocated a day in the week for charging, there would be 314,285 cars charging on any given day. Is that doable?

Pussyhands

RTE are a joke tbh.

Didn't their director or something say something a while back about them not doing enough to combat climate change? So now we're going to be bombarded with news and propaganda about it with covid not taking up the headlines as much.

Even yesterday, giving free advertising to the Too Good to Go app and they commented "for those who are conscious about climate change". And then they're put into these bags and boxes...where are the bags and boxes manufactured?

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083868#Comment_118083868

Off the top of my head two future scenarios I can think of that will create sudden demand surges in future.

• Met Eireann issues a warning for storm force winds with widespread power cuts expected. Everyone charges in advance and gets tasks that use electricity (clothes washing and drying) out of the way. You often see this with gas (Petrol) stations in the South-East of the United States (Florida, Louisiana, Georgia, South Carolina) when a mass evacuation happens in advance of a severe hurricane warning.
• Another potential weather scenario is the "beast from the east" type cold events where demand for electricity is driven up. To date record demand to date in Ireland was 6,878 MW on December 21st 2020, 17:30. Per Met Eireann it was a cold month.

Temperature: Below average in most places

Nearly all mean air temperatures were below their Long-Term Average (LTA) for the month. Deviations from mean air temperature ranged from -0.9 °C (4.9 °C mean temperature) at Markree, Co Sligo to 0.3 °C (5.8 °C mean temperature) at Finner, Co Donegal. Mean temperatures for the month ranged from 4.3 °C (at its LTA) at Knock Airport, Co Mayo (its coldest December since 2010) to 7.8 °C (0.2 °C below its LTA) at Sherkin Island, Co Cork (its coldest December since 2010). The month’s highest temperature was reported at Dublin Airport on Friday 18th with a temperature of 14.2 °C. The month’s lowest air minimum was recorded on Monday 7th at Dunsany, Co Meath with -4.8 °C while the lowest grass minimum was -9.4 °C reported at Athenry, Co Galway on Thursday 31st. All stations reported ground frost during the month. The number of days with ground frost ranged from 6 days at Malin Head, Co Donegal to 21 days at Markree, Co Sligo. More than half of stations reported air frost. The number of days with air frost ranged from zero days at a few stations to 11 days at Dunsany, Co Meath. 22 stations had their coldest December since 2010.

• Bank holiday weekends where people en-masse on the East coast of Ireland decamp to the West and will need a full charge to complete the journey. Even concerts or All-Ireland weekends when some counties make the pilgrimage to Croke park may have localised effects on the grid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MEd_q05TJA

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083779#Comment_118083779

I reckon you'd see petrol & diesel generators become the norm - to charge your EV when the system can't cope!

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084163#Comment_118084163

That might be one of the effects of demand-side management. The price of a KwH of electricity can only rise due to the combination of infrastructure investment required to cope with the new loads, the costs of the low density generation (Wind and Solar) and the management cost overhead of random energy, Eirgrid will need synchronous condensers to manage this. That's why the smart meters are necessary to curb demand side consumption by price mechanisms, therefore the deciding factor will be a trade off between the cost of distance travelled between electricity and diesel/petrol. Generators are used today as standby generation or remote sites that don't have power, If we ever get to a South African power grid situation with regular rolling blackouts then their use would indeed increase. Aside from the costs the nightmare scenario for us in Ireland can happen due to intense winter cold where the grid is dependent on random energy generation (Solar in Winter months forget about it for 2 months of the year) and the wind may not always blow. . . . and the target is 70% random energy by 2030.

Prolonged cold spells were experienced in Ireland in the winters of 2009–10 and 2010–11, and electricity demand was relatively high at these times, whilst wind generation capacity factors were low. Such situations can cause difficulties for an electricity system with a high dependence on wind energy.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083779#Comment_118083779

As has already been said, most electric cars won't be charging at the same time. Most people would only charge their car once a week or once a fortnight, others would charge while at work, others using other parts of the charging network

Smart meters are rolling out already, people will be setting their car to charge only at the cheapest rate (where demand is lowest) so rather than overloading the network, this can actually reduce the base load, and even supplement peak demand if the car is capable of supplementing the energy requirements of the grid using V2G which many of the new BEVs are coming equipped with these days.

In other words, the 'sporadic' renewable energy that you hate, can be backed up, in part, by millions of BEVs that can charge their batteries while prices are lowest (surplus renewable energy) and then sell some of that power back to the grid when power becomes scarce.

You are always taking the most pessimistic possible scenario to demonise green technology, while pretending that Climate change is barely an inconvenience and it's all being exaggerated.

If you took a more realistic view on climate change, then you would agree that even though there are hurdles to overcome, they are necessary to overcome, so we need to be bold and ambitious in tackling these crises early, because the longer we delay, the more impacts we will see, and the more radical steps will be required

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083722#Comment_118083722

I don't actually mind them doing too many of these “world is doomed” articles. It's very much in vogue and some people get a bit of a rush out of reading them! My problem is that they are just not looking at questions that need to be answered.

Firstly, where is the infrastructure or at least a plan for infrastructure?

Secondly, what progress has been made on any of these plans?

Finally, how much is this going to cost each and every individual?

Pussyhands

The government is taking in hundreds of millions in taxes each year from diesel/petrol

We'll probably see a new tariff brought in or limits to make this money back when there's mostly electric cars.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083868#Comment_118083868

+1. charging only once or week.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083927#Comment_118083927

Nah that was director of news who lambasted someone for not mentioning the bad weather was due to global warming.

FFS a bunch of fooking inbred clowns.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080024#Comment_118080024

Well maybe if people paid full value for their food then farmers would not need subsidising.

But governments in the Western world copped on their populations get uppidty if they are hungry and can't afford to eat well.

That is why farmers are subsidised in EU, US, etc.

It ensures you have cheap food to eat.

Thus food prices for the consumer have actually gone down in real terms over the years while the cost of production has gone through the roof.

Of course yes farmers in some parts of the world can produce the food much cheaper, but it helps when they have much lower costs and often laxer controls.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080227#Comment_118080227

People can do without cigarettes, but they need to stay warm, get their food, get from A to B and not everyone has the money to buy the latest green friendly vehicle or solar panels.

So comparing taxing cigarettes to fossil fuels is like comparing avocados to spuds.

(I thought you might understand those differences) 😉

RandomViewer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083729#Comment_118083729

All those competitions last year, people took the money, large percentage of the population are indebted to a huge level, Green taxes will make the maintenance of those debts difficult, another bank bailout anyone,

Spudmonkey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084575#Comment_118084575

People need to get from A to B but 30% of peoples journeys are less than 3km, and 50% are less than 5km. I'm sure there are plenty ways of getting from A to B which don't resort to getting into a car to drive that distance. My spending on fuel is in or about the same as it was last year, cause now on those shorter journeys I either cycle or walk. Most people have an alternative which is to use their legs.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084413#Comment_118084413

The price of a KWH 'can only rise' only if the market doesn't adapt.

Currently we're dependent on a few oligarchs setting the price of energy, deliberately setting the price at a level that allows them to dominate global supply.

Renewables will change this dynamic completely where we are no longer dependent on a couple of pipelines controlled by despots with prices set by OPEC, and energy is traded on the basis of many smaller actors working independently

If it becomes a thing where prices spike every time there's a public holiday or bad weather alert, then this represents an opportunity for private companies to create infrastructure to buy the energy cheaply, and then sell it when the price goes up. Where there is money to be made, people will make the investments

Rather than have noisy dirty diesel generators backing up power, which will hopefully be so swamped in carbon taxes that they're not worth it anymore, companies will have tanks of Hydrogen and generate power on site using fuel cells.

Hydrogen can be generated when there is an over supply of renewable energy. We have seen zero unit price of electricity in the EU already, and even negative unit prices on more than one occasion. (Companies were being paid to use the surplus energy from renewables)

A country the size of Ireland might only need 20 of these fast charging stations set up along motorways to facilitate long distance travel across the vast majority of the country. It would make sense for these stations to have fuel cells or batteries on site so they can take advantage of the swings in the price of electricity to balance out their load.

None of this is new technology.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084535#Comment_118084535

So what, you'll be no worse off than you are now, except the air you are breathing won't be slowly poisoning you, your cost of maintaining your car will be way lower, and you won't be contributing as much to climate change as you would by driving an ICE car

iColdFusion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083779#Comment_118083779

Okay its not as bad as what you are saying but yes for older housing estates this is a risk and that risk is down to the fact the ESB apply a lot of diversity to their connections to housing estates, you might apply for a 12 or 16kVA connection but they will happily supply 20 houses in an estate from one 200kVA substation on the assumption they aren't all going to be using their maximum capacity at the same time, that made sense in simpler times with no car charging, no working from home and lovely oil or gas boilers. Realistically all they are going to do is replace the substations that burn down with higher capacity units.

Don't forget all new commercial buildings are moving to heat pumps too so in a few years time the ESB will have the country by the balls!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083868#Comment_118083868

There isn't massive environmental benefit to these people moving to electric though, need the people doing 500km a week to move to electric and TBH if I had an electric car during the winter months id be plugging in every night so the battery pack and car is warm in the morning! Also range anxiety is a real thing, not many people are going to let their car drop below 50% when they have a charge point right there.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084413#Comment_118084413

We have a wee generator. I wouldn't be without it as if there's a storm and power is down, we can be way down the list to get fixed. Also why the idea of heat pumps and electric cookers are not appealing. Who wants to be frozen and eating cold food for a few days in winter?? And no, we don't live in some remote part of Ireland - just standard rural area.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084739#Comment_118084739

The car doesn't need to be plugged in to preheat

If people are swapping to new cars then moving to electric instead of combustion will slowly integrate electric cars.

joeysoap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118083722#Comment_118083722

He got a house retrofit (plus solar panels ). And an electric car for a year - free. Not so much old as lucky. No word though on his farm emissions.( if it’s the same guy - apparently there’s 12 of the lucky sods)

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118080417#Comment_118080417

A mass cull of all the people in Ireland would do nothing to change the climate either.

But I suppose taxing them will.

Like the people saying oh think of the children. Im thinking my kids are going to be worried more in a few years about the high taxes in the name of environmentalism than, they will be worried about climate change. I already know a lot of people who are being taxed through the nose and have had enough of this environmentalist taxes that keep popping up too.