"Green" policies are destroying this country

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121186981#Comment_121186981

If it wasnt so serious

KildareP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184877#Comment_121184877

And you've just gone straight back into the double standard outcome.

If 2050 rolls around and it has become clear renewables just can't power a grid exclusively, then what? Because that's a firm possibility since no-one has come even close to running a carbon free grid - in the absence of nuclear - for any length of time worth considering.

If reducing carbon emissions really is the aim you use every energy source you can to get you there.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187407#Comment_121187407

Lots of grids are near 100% renewable. Heck, look at the Kenyan system, they're running a largely carbon free grid. Hydro, geothermal and wind (not much PV oddly).

The difference here is that we are relying on two intermittent fuel types (wind/solar) and connecting them asynchronously so they provide minimal frequency support services.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187407#Comment_121187407

... they will have cut vast amounts of emissions by 2050 even if they fall short - meanwhile nuclear has done zip to that point.

You either accept that emissions need to be reduced now and rapidly or you don't understand the urgency of climate change avoidance. Nuclear comes to late to reduce carbon emissions as it does nothing until the big switch is pulled in around two decades time.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187157#Comment_121187157

I don't understand your problem with the widely accepted concept of tipping points. Water shows a tipping point if you apply heat to it - the point of boiling where it stops rising in temp and starts turning into steam. You can have a hissy fit over the word but it's a concept which describes many common events in nature. The fact that it's commonly accepted term of description troubles you is only because it contradicts your narrative that nature changes smoothly without surprises. Your simply wrong.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121179762#Comment_121179762

You may be confused a little. I did not say anything like that and certainly not in a post you quoted. You may want to re read it again, think a little about what you are reading and then perhaps reply something more to the point.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187452#Comment_121187452

The point was fairly irrelevant since you picked a random set of things you disliked about producing renewable energy - but then did not contrast them with the equally bad set of negatives which go into producing conventional energy and cars.

My comment was as facecous as was warranted by yours.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121180419#Comment_121180419

Another one who cant put two and two together. My reply was directed on Australia amazing solar and battery storage plans. How did you manage to jump to laptops, boards and clothes is beyond my understanding. Your mind must be amazing place.

Trying to switch world from using fossil fuels to what you call green energy and put everyone in EV if quite far from "sustainability" for everyone who knows how things work.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121180565#Comment_121180565

Sure. Problem is that most of what you describe is still experimental and far from being available commercially. This kind of talk is why people constanly point out that green enthusiasts operate on belief that some time in the future it will all be somehow solved. I believe it is being referred as hopium.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187455#Comment_121187455

Most of your comments are like that but we got used to it. I sometimes forget who am I talking to.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187466#Comment_121187466

Maybe you understand why I wouldn't offer your statement the impact you hoped for.

deholleboom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187456#Comment_121187456

I do actually think he HAS a point pulling in laptops etc. And you could also make a wider remark about overall pollution of digital technology which would require even more energy for example data centres, AI. If you take that into account you need even more land/sea if you want to go green. I dont actually know what the greens exactly think about the digital world. Old fashioned environmental aware people used to be small scale, (almost) off grid energy ( small windmills and diesel generators), suspicious of large scale state compliance rules and the state in general. They were minimalists trying to survive independently, being nice to bees and and protecting whales etc.

It seems those kind of people have died out. The new ones are all about fascist style top down command and control. That needs control of the digital space ie surveillance ie Big Tech. They dont seem to realise they are supporting a polluting industry. Or maybe they do and just ignore it because they need it so it doesnt count.

blanch152

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/10/02/increase-in-local-property-tax-sought-by-labour-greens-and-social-democrat-councillors/

Here is an example of the Green party wanting what is best for the people of Dublin.

Dublin City Council wanted to increase the amount of money spent on cleaning Dublin - anyone who visits the city centre would be aware of the problems - and the Green party supported this. Unfortunately, it was shot down by the likes of SF, FF, PBP and FG.

ednwireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187725#Comment_121187725

It looks to me as the usual green solution of taking more money and then not providing a solution. Which seems the default green method of operating. Its always more money into the black hole with them.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187725#Comment_121187725

This is the same green party that advocates letting every bit of green space overgrow because it apparently saves the bees? "No mow May" in the middle of a dual carriageway or roundabout or wherever that makes no difference to any bee or other wildlife but is an eyesore at best or hazard at worst. The Co councils quickly latched on as a cost saving initiative and mow nothing at all now, every footpath is overrun with weeds or lilac bushes. Yesterday I saw a blind person get hit in the face with a wayward branch stretched across the path, then step off it into oncoming traffic. Now they want more money to do what they should have been doing in the first place?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187770#Comment_121187770

lol, that's a good story RE the blind person. the no mow thing is a council initiative around different parts of the country, not exactly dictated to them by the green party. anyway insect populations are in a bad state in ireland, some of the work they've done where i live on roundabouts and verges has been really good, loads of wild flowers in spring and summer. you need to stop thinking that nature = eyesore.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187744#Comment_121187744

Well actually, have you seen the litter problem in Dublin City Centre? The Council actually needs money to pay for cleaning. It's a choice here, lower LPT or clean streets. Simple as that.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187770#Comment_121187770

Well actually, that is a good initiative.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187863#Comment_121187863

Glad it amused you. Shows the typical Green regard for fellow humans. She didn't think it was that funny though and required assistance on her journey afterwards till the pathway was clearer and she found her bearings again.

Dublin already pays the highest LPT, perhaps instead of redistributing it elsewhere, it should meet local needs first? No need to jump to the default Green option and increase taxation first, then think about how to squander it on green initiatives next.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188135#Comment_121188135

Yes, we Greens love blind people being assaulted by branches that are our fault for being there in the first place. Shame she wasn't hit by a car when she fell out onto the road, in this story that actually happened and was the fault of the Green party.

Coolcormack1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188027#Comment_121188027

No it’s not.I see locally they tried that craic of letting the roundabouts go wild last yr at an exit onto the m8.after a couple of months u couldn’t see what was on it unless a lorry.thankfully this yr common sense prevailed and it’s kept safe and tidy.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188155#Comment_121188155

Ah, so you condemn climate change deniers on something that may or may not be part of a natural cycle and is impossible to truly observe in human lifetimes but something unfortunate that was actually observed by myself (and at least one other boards.ie member) didn't happen because you didn't see it yourself? Stay classy.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188245#Comment_121188245

lol, yes i hold more value in the work of countless numbers of scientists and decades of work over your made up story that you tried to blame on the green party, give it a rest ffs.

machiavellianme

I'm not imaginative enough to make up a story like that. I've never been much of a dreamer.

So based on your complete lack of concern, are we to assume that you are happy enough with the general disrepair and unkempt streets as a result of so-called wilding policies? Where do you draw the line on what's real and what's not? Are you OK with animal droppings fouling our streets too? I saw a poster showing sh1t on someone's wheel of their wheelchair once, am I to believe that didn't/couldn't happen and no other branch could ever collide with someone (sighted or otherwise) as they grow out of control, encroaching on public paths and roads?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188337#Comment_121188337

Yes I'm all for shite riddled streets. Bring it on.

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187445#Comment_121187445

If we've to drastically cut emissions, and lately this thread is hinting that it needs to be done now, then why aren't we imposing driving restrictions, flying restrictions, importing crap from far flung places, etc, etc. It's an emergency or it's not.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187725#Comment_121187725

It's like some of the councillors know a lot of people are struggling (though I'd say the cost of living is blown out of all proportion) and upping the LPT isn't warranted. The council should be cleaning the streets anyway regardless of the LPT or it's value. Surely it's a core thing to be doing and shouldn't be dependent on any LPT to cover it.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189217#Comment_121189217

It is €375 a year for someone who owns a house worth €1m.

Those who are really struggling - on the streets - don't pay LPT, and rent controls mean that renters are not affected either.

I don't buy the people are struggling thing in the context of LPT, but it comes into other issues.

The council need money to clean the streets, if they don't have it, they need to raise it, hence they want to keep LPT at the non-reduced rate. You have to remember that the government funds councils on the basis of full collection of LPT. If a council reduces LPT, they give money back to citizens but services have to be cut.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189217#Comment_121189217

Street cleaning should be mandatory as you say and DCC are a disgrace.

However, as a Dublin resident, I dont want the LPT increased because a third of it goes outside Dublin to prop up the other counties.

If the money stayed locally, fair enough. But it doesnt.

The councils know this & so its not worth them voting to increase it.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189234#Comment_121189234

What is €375? The LPT? There's no payment rate valued at €375. It'd be somewhere around 400k premises value if it existed.

It's €1035 for a house valued at €1M. A lot of houses in Dublin can fall into that bracket. That house could still be a clapped out, modest but drafty,1920s 3 bed semi detached that just so happens to be in a desirable urban area. It doesn't mean that the house (or its rebuild cost) is anywhere near that. But €1035 is not an inconsequential value, especially since its after income tax etc.

Considering the Councils were supposed to look after general maintenance and repair long before LPT, they should still be doing this core function instead of letting the place fall apart and relying on tidy towns or whatever to do their role.

What was the point of finally taking Road from the motor traffic to give to us pedestrians, only to let the Lilac and Briars encroach and take up a significant portion of our lovely new paths?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189403#Comment_121189403

It is the saving on the reduced rate for multi-million houses. Left-wing parties like PBP and SF joined with centre parties FF and FG to give a rate reduction in Dublin City Council to millionaires in D4 rather than hire extra people to clean the streets. A double whammy for those without a job having to walk around a dirty city centre during the day.

Council grants were reduced by the amount that LPT raises when it was brought in. It replaced central government funding.

Things have greatly improved in Fingal, with the council doing a lot more, because they didn't reduce the LPT.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189412#Comment_121189412

Plenty of people in D4 are in areas like Ringsend and Irishtown, as well as less glamorous parts of Donnybrook etc and although their fixed asset homes may be valued highly, it doesn't mean that they are particularly affluent. Many are living in F and G rated homes and instead of being able to invest in retrofits, they've to hand over €1035 to look at filthy streets while their money helps light up the Rock of Cashel at night.

Given the higher population density in urban areas, there should be plenty of funds to cover a much smaller surface area than rural Tipp or wherever, even with the reduced LPT rates.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189403#Comment_121189403

This is my problem with all these shiny new so called hypotheticated taxes, there just an excuse to add to the overall tax burden without delivering anything in return.

In the context of this thread glad to hear pplicy consideration is being given to holding off any further increases in one of those so called hypotheticated tax - 'fuel duty/carbon taxes'

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189412#Comment_121189412

Genuine question, does Fingal co council have to send a third of their LPT takings to other jurisdictions?

InAtFullBack

Street Sweeping in my area happens maybe twice a year in a lucky year, once a year mostly and some years not at all. Not in a big county so I do wonder what the crew of the Street Sweeping team are doing for the other 225+ working days in the year. Most areas across the county seem equally unattended.

The storm drain cleaning is next to non-existent. The initial Tidy Towns green initiative to plant trees back in the day (good idea) means alot of semi-mature deciduous trees and boy do these like to block the storm drains. All the drains are choked as a result. Neighbour down the road commented about the rain pooling on the road like never before and says it's evidence of climate change. 🙄

I went out the other evening and cleared out two of the storm drains which were blocked, that will alleviate my neighbour's climate change worries.

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188435#Comment_121188435

If this is the low this thread has got, it’s time to disassociate myself from it.

roosterman71

I've lived in a few towns and villages and when there I've seen road sweepers like clockwork each week. In Athlone when I was there that bollox driving the yellow road sweeper would, without fail, be out around Athlone Castle and in over the bridge every bloody morning at 8.45am, right at peak morning traffic. He drove me mad every single day trying to get out of town to work. Even where I am now the yellow truck goes each Tuesday around the town, and then onto another town. It has a set routine each week. And this in a county that has nothing compared to Dublin city. Blaming filthy streets on not raising the LPT is pure and utter bollox from whoever is suggesting it.

deholleboom

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/10/02/its-time-to-build-the-intermittent-renewable-plus-hydrogen-storage-demonstration-project/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190809#Comment_121190809

The source of all climate disinformation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190809#Comment_121190809

Funniest website on the web

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121187546#Comment_121187546

I know, I was trying to keep it simple. Thing is that most of green believers cant grasp basic math. If you try to point out that they cant "just stop oil" and switch to so called "green" energy which require complete rebuild of energy creation and transfer simply because there is not enough material required to do so (not to mention time) the answer is always the same. Talk about some experimental technology and firm belief that it will all be sorted some time in the future and that someone will figure it out eventually. All that new promising technology in development kind of stuff.

R&D are cool and we are moving forward yet to figure out what will work in the real world condition, iron out imperfections and to make it work require time and a lot of money. Cutting the branch on which we sit in order to get higher will cause the exact opposite.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121188265#Comment_121188265

What exactly do you mean by decades of work?

I remember quite a lot of scary stuff which came out last few decades, none of which came even close to be true. No point to list all crazy stories they tend to come out every now and then someone claiming we either burn, freeze, drown, choke etc.

Now it is fancier, no need to put a face on baseless claim as they are being manufactured by computers hence nobody will have to eat crows. All those climate models with predictions of end of times because they were coded to be exactly that.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189883#Comment_121189883

Yes.

But around Dublin 15 anyway, there have been significant improvements in the last year or two.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190787#Comment_121190787

Well actually, one of the problems is that all the Dublin councils are required to give some of their LPT to counties like Westmeath meaning they have less for their own services and should then charge the high rate of LPT to fund them.

Pretty basic stuff in terms of local authority funding.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189483#Comment_121189483

As evidenced by the state of the streets, there clearly isn't. The people of Dublin City have spoked through their elected representatives - more money in their pocket instead of clean streets. That is democracy and I accept the people have spoken. Won't stop me saying that I think the people got it wrong.

deholleboom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121190809#Comment_121190809

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121191649#Comment_121191649

I know exactly what you mean.You dig a little deeper and weigh the pros and cons, costs and benefits of a rapid transition to green energy they always come up with an argument that simply states:' because we HAVE to'. They put their thumb on the scale and deny that they are doing it. With the usual short time frame for the transition. They expect everybody to accept proposals that a typical graduate would fail on. The article above points out the bloody obvious.

Again, the greens need the hydro carbon doomsday scenario. Those people who are willing to seriously look at the transition tech know that net zero emissions by 2050 is simply a pipe dream, an aspiration to make the transition as rapid as possible. I get the feeling that those who posed the whole concept probably knew that but that net zero by 2100 wasnt going to fly. Too far away. Better start now and we'll get to the wonderful other end after the usual hickups along the way. That promised land is tied to the green ideology and hence religious by nature. But it is mainly a western concept not shared by the majority of the world's population. Hell, i dont know if it is even shared by the majority of people in the west who seem to go no further than: 'we need to do something about climate change' but haven't really looked at the bill. Most are focussed on home solar panels and insulation. Solar panels seem to have stalled in Holland. All in all that rapid transition needs fascism to work. Too bad that both the internet and proper journalists make old style fascist control unlikely no matter how much deflection by governments and the media.

The reason why net zero by 2050 was introduced was because we blew past the targets set by the COP conferences which allowed for a slower and less Draconian transition. The target was to hold temp rise to 1.5c , the point when many of the tipping points will strongly kick in. Since we are almost at 1.5c temp rise already we look to be on target to fail to hold climate change on check as per 2050.

The predictions set out by the IPCC in their summery reports are entirely worse than what the climate change deniers would have everyone believe.

The change needed is not unachievable, the resources are there. We built a fossil fuel economy in less than 100 years and we built the electric grid in about 50. These are achievements on a similar scale to the achievement of net zero. What is lacking is political will to drive the change and useful fools who buy into the fossil fuel industries properganda that it is impossible.

Let it also be said that I will always take the opinion of the IPCC experts over the opinion of some internet blowhards.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121191703#Comment_121191703

I'm confused Blanch. You've already stated that some of the LPT collected in Dublin is sent elsewhere. Instead of increasing the LPT in Dublin, perhaps it should be kept in Dublin as it is supposed to be a Local Property Tax. Maybe those areas getting that money from Dublin should increase their own LPT to make up the difference.

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121191692#Comment_121191692

My argument is that cleaning streets shouldn't be linked to LPT. When there was no LPT, the streets were being cleaned. Linking them is bullshit and saying we won't clean yer streets because we aren't getting enough LPT should be enough to **** each and every councillor who suggests it out at the next election.

877 pages non the wiser

wouldn’t it be fair to say at this stage that management of our resources is whats causing all the problem’s.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192169#Comment_121192169

Far as I could tell DCC is more concerned about Palestine than Phibsboro. I doubt that anyone who can actually read a balance sheet even bothers with elections for that rabble.