"Green" policies are destroying this country

72sheep

Narrow boats No, private jets Yes.

No doubt there's an NGO research report confirming that private jet owners are amongst the most concerned about "the future of our precious planet" and that their very own children suffer the most from anxiety about the impending climate armageddon. Narrow boat owners Booh booh, private jet owners Yay yay #somuchclimatecare, LOL!

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/sep/23/ban-on-wood-burners-threatens-british-boat-dwellers-with-winter-freeze

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192898#Comment_121192898

Reminds me of Harris's concern that the lack of accommodation for foreign students could tarnish Irelands reputation abroad.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192898#Comment_121192898

They are a menace to the city. Dublin City would be better off without them.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192817#Comment_121192817

Oh, I see the money for cleaning streets grows on trees, maybe the cleaners could collect as they go about their unpaid business.

The streets haven't been cleaned - see the state of Dublin city - so how the LPT is needed to clean them, unless the magical money pays for it.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121192169#Comment_121192169

It is not confusing to want both i.e. not only should LPT be paid at the full rate in Dublin, but the full amount collected should be spent on Dublin. We could have one of the best cities in Europe rather than the tumbledown shack it represents most of the time.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193795#Comment_121193795

I don't know about you but I pay the full LPT amount here in Dublin City, there's no discount available or maybe I'm missing a trick.

Until all LPT monies that are collected in Dublin, are spent in Dublin, there should be no increase.

We could have one of the best cities in Europe if we got rid of all the homeless and junkies methadone clinics in the city centre. I don't think a few extra street sweepers will make a difference.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193848#Comment_121193848

You pay the full amount that you are charged, but that is not the full amount possible as Dublin City Council reduced it for everyone.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193869#Comment_121193869

Seems reasonable to me. Dublin already pays the highest amount of LPT as it is. Increasing it while at the same time sending money out of Dublin is bloody stupid.

ednwireland

don't how anyone would think giving more money to a council would improve a service.

it's just another publicly funded black hole with very little accountability for how our money is spent.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193784#Comment_121193784

Does that meam if the Govt abolished the LPT the streets would never be cleaned again?

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193784#Comment_121193784

We're one of the richest countries in the world. We can spare a few bob for brushes and bins. Hell, half the villages around the country have lads on "FAS schemes" keeping streets cleaned. You're trying to tell me that the nations capital, the economic powerhouse of the state, the biggest urban centre in the country can't clean the streets unless the LPT is raised?

There's been some crazy stuff posted in this thread but this one is off the charts

prunudo

If it wasn't for local volunteers and the Tidy towns initiative, the country as a whole would be much dirtier. I've said it before, but the government get away with murder where it comes to the services they provide or lack of. Volunteers like first responders doing great work but equally the work that should be provided by the state.

Makes me sick to see them claim that if we want clean streets we must pay more. No, if we pay more we should get extra services beyond what is normally expected.

creedp

Very difficult to sustain the argument that ordinary people have to give up their cars, holidays, etc in order to save humanity when the likes of FIFA stick up the 2 fingers in such a manner

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67010609

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121195191#Comment_121195191

On the vein of why bother, that Sphere in Las Vegas must consume some amount of energy.

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193784#Comment_121193784

Problem is @blanch152 is that there are constant stealth taxes introduced for a pittance initially and then once the habit of paying them sets in, they get vastly inflated. It's high time all the C U Next Tuesdays looking for more tax on this and more tax on that were told to feck off in the most loudest and brash fashion and actually spend the ~€60 billion in taxes collected properly and cut out the blatant waste thats going on.

I honestly despair at those who hold the opinion that the Irish public are one giant collective cow's udder there purely for the milking. Enough is enough. In Dublin today on the north circular road there was a Dublin City Council sign for Kellie Harrington who is pictured and quoted "I took my first boxing class in this area". Now this sign probably cost a few grand knowing the way public servants spend and it hanging on a fairly dirty street with weeds all along the kerbs.

No problem with a sign up for Kellie and obviously trying to attract more youngsters to follow in her footsteps (rightly so) - but why are DCC sponsoring that sign, it should be paid for from the budgets of the Boxing Association or the Irish Sports Council, not DCC. Often local councils are so far gone down the road of "have to be seen to be promoting the latest PC thing" that they loose focus on what they are supposed to do. Weed, clean and maintain streets is one of their core jobs!

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121194648#Comment_121194648

The FAS lads don't clean the streets in this area beyond litter picking and grass cutting. Knew the supervisor over the scheme - they were well up in the union. Quizzed them about getting the FAS lads weeding and sweeping the streets and was told not a chance, it was the council's job to do that. I countered that the council don't do it much beyond once a year and was told to take that up with them - there would be strife if the FAS lads "went in on their turf". That's the kind of crazy ya have going on in Ireland.

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121194788#Comment_121194788

Exactly, the Tidy Towns became popular in the 80s during the recession. People had more spare time, severe curtailment of street cleaning was a result of Govt spending cutbacks and this gave rise to these groups to form. However, when the recession ended the cutbacks were never restored and the Govt left it to the well established Tidy Towns groups - assisted by FAS workers to do the donkey work.

Great works were done in many parts of the country and still are - however I see it slipping. The greenification of the Tidy Towns means keeping a place clean and tidy are no longer good enough. Now the Tidy Towns groups are around doing green energy surveys, recycling projects, and so much other fluff that less and less people are bothered any more. Going are the days when the locals would meet up few times a month to sweep and pick litter or maybe a once-off project like painting a derelict building and leave it at that.

Nope, like everything good - it has to be 'modernised'.

JP Liz V1

The minister over RTE does like perks herself

https://twitter.com/irishexaminer/status/1709637845822951707

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121195593#Comment_121195593

clean up happens pretty regularly along the Grand Canal in Dublin. Lots of volunteers.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121195873#Comment_121195873

I wonder what they were there to advise her on? They're not exactly doing a stellar job on the handling of or reform of RTE, is she now planning on reforming the sport of golf too? The Saudis beat her to it with the chequebook for that particular enterprise.

I wonder if they flew over or went for the old rail and sail?

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121195873#Comment_121195873

Putting that sequestered Dublin LPT to good use👍

InAtFullBack

‘The clock is ticking’ – why holidaymakers could be restricted by carbon passports | Independent.ie

Catherine and her buddy advisors can fly willie nillie - however the clock is ticking if you 'ordinary Joe Soap' dare think about an extra weekend away trip. You're going to be very limited as you'll need a Covid style passport to check your 'allowance'. Probably the only thing holding this next measure up is how to figure out a bonus allowance for non-nationals to fly home to visit their families.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196111#Comment_121196111

I wonder how this will effect the jet set lifestyle of those with private jets and yachts? As usual, as it has always been the case, lifestyle restrictions only apply to the common man/person/family

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121195873#Comment_121195873

Sick to the teeth of the greens.

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196111#Comment_121196111

That reads like a doomsday scenario type thing. Very low on detail and the carbon passports is a "may happen". I doubt it's even possible within the EU anyway without changing the "Freedom of Movement" pillar of the whole EU.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121191998#Comment_121191998

This kind of thinking is precisely what is wrong with all climate change agenda. The delusion of a century - thinking that west can hold temperature rise by waging holy war against CO2 which frankly has nothing to do with rise or fall in planet temperature anyway.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121194648#Comment_121194648

Yes, you are correct, we are one of the richest countries in the world, but that money is in your pockets and other people's pockets. The government has to collect it in order to spend it on cleaning the streets. Hence the need to collect the full amount of LPT.

The craziest thing in this thread is that somehow the council can pay for services with a magic money tree.

patnor1011

Berlin reactivates coal-fired power plants ahead of winter.

What climate crisis?

With Germany predicted to be the only major European economy to experience a recession in 2023, the last thing the country needs to be thinking about is the further implementation of "net zero" climate goals ahead of winter in the Northern Hemisphere. 

The Germans may be finally thinking for themselves and their own survival. That's because Germany's cabinet on Wednesday said screw it to 'climate warriors' and plans to re-ignite several coal-fired power plants from October until the end of the first quarter of 2024. 

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/germany-approves-bringing-coal-fired-power-plants-back-online-this-winter-2023-10-04/?taid=651d91ea74209d0001cd91b1

With a downturn roiling the economy, the last thing the country needs to be worried about is a less than 1°C rise in global temperatures in the past 100 years. There is no concrete evidence of any significant climate crisis, and all the people who tell us a crisis is right around the corner do so while raking in billions in funding dollars from governments and think-tank institutions with a vested interest in reinforcing the hysteria. In other words, there is no basis for exponential restrictions on "greenhouse gas" emissions. The Germans finally realized the sham by bringing back coal power plants to keep the lights on. 

Coal powered EV's, what a great idea for window salad box greens to overload their minds...

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196471#Comment_121196471

The council had absolutely no problem funding a brand new depot, with every mod con you could convince of, up in Ballymun. Don't tell me there's no money for street sweeping.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196471#Comment_121196471

Total 2023 estimated tax revenues is just under €89bn. All about priorities.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196589#Comment_121196589

Yes, things like health, education, justice and social welfare will always take priority over cleaning the streets. So other ways to raise revenue need to be found.

patnor1011

Fun Fact Thursday.

   •   CO2 is currently 420 ppm, which is 0.042%. Humans are responsible for 3% of that, which is 0.00126%. Thus, 99.99874% of all CO2 is created naturally. 

   •   At under 270 ppm CO2, plant life dies, and everything dies with it.

   •   The atmosphere has had periods where CO2 was up to and higher than 4000 ppm. Plant and animal life thrived, Alaska was a jungle.

   •   When Mt. St Helens erupted in 1980, it released the same amount of pollution as 270 years of human industrial activity in 1970. That's 270 x 1970 industrial activity--IN ONE DAY.

It would be more appropriate to call this Cliemate emergency.

Floppybits

Surely to jaysus Street cleaning, be it sweeping, weeding or whatever should be a core part of the services delivered by the Council and budgeted for as normal. Street cleaning is not some sort of extra service like hanging flags out of trees and therefore there should be always money allocated to this. Ridiculous argument to say that we need to pay more tax for what should be a core service. Typical of the grab all supporters of the FFG.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196680#Comment_121196680

What next... No water charges no water? Do people really think water is paid from plucking cash from the money trees?

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196753#Comment_121196753

Here is the thing I wouldn't have a problem paying for water, the problem I had and I am sure most others had is the way it was being implemented and the way the government of the time handled it. It was a farce. Anyways I have no problem paying tax but I do have a problem paying it and the services are not being delivered and all we here is that we need to pay more tax and still the basic services are not being delivered like street cleaning. As I said that is a core service and should always be part of budgeting and then if as I said they want to hang flags from trees or other such extra's then they can look for extra funding.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196968#Comment_121196968

I agree with you. These new so called hypothetical taxes are just a convenient mechanism for Govt to extract extra taxes under the guise of [x] good cause without actually delivering any additional services. Lets all focus on what is delivered for the new shiny €500m LPT and continue to be as opaque as possible on how well the remaining €88+bn is spent

antoinolachtnai

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196568#Comment_121196568

Very dramatic. This will make absolutely no difference to overall emissions because of the operation of the emissions cap, as you may well know already.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196355#Comment_121196355

And your sort of denial will doom us.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196589#Comment_121196589

I've got the same sweeping brush for twenty years, its had 5 heads and 8 handles.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196753#Comment_121196753

Paid by general taxation and commercial water charges, like it was for decades before anyone heard of John Tierney, Comical Betty Arnett and Uisce Éireann.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121197166#Comment_121197166

Yea same with LPT and street cleaning and if these new water charges had been implemented to pay for public water delivery would this have resulted in a commensurate reduction in general taxation heretofore used to pay for this service?

Anyway this is off topic so Ill leave it there

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196471#Comment_121196471

Yes, you are correct, we are one of the richest countries in the world, but that money is in your pockets and other people's pockets. The government has to collect it in order to spend it on cleaning the streets. Hence the need to collect the full amount of LPT.

Sorry @blanch152 - but I strongly disagree here. On paper we might as you put it be 'one of the richest countries in the world' but that richness is not worth a damn when everywhere you turn the cost of food, energy and stealth taxes are crippling.

The craziest thing in this thread is that somehow the council can pay for services with a magic money tree.

The ordinary Joe and Jane on the street are not a magic money tree despite the grandiose illusions of some. There is a huge swathe of the Irish population living payday to payday - i.e. no money left in a window of time coming up to the next pay day. So the Govt and Councils need to look inward and start looking for efficiencies in their own budgets. As the idol of some, Charles J Haughey once said - it's time to tighten your belts. High time those preaching from such heights practised that.

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196239#Comment_121196239

I noticed SF wants a €3,000 take off tax on private jets. Imagine the wailing in the departures lounge at Weston Airport if that were to happen. 😲

Budget 2024 Ireland: Children’s Minister Roderic O’Gorman pushing for 25pc cut in childcare fees as Sinn Féin publishes alternative budget | Independent.ie

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121197408#Comment_121197408

Reads like a communist manifesto. Lots of taking money off the "rich" and giving to the "poor". I despair for this country if that's the quality of the opposition right now. Yeah, let's reduce the only fair tax we have, USC, and the only tax 34% of the workforce actually pay and lump another 3% on thos earning over 140k. Because if there's one thing both the government and opposition parties hate to see is money in people's pockets that they can't spend on vanity projects.

deholleboom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196968#Comment_121196968

I read the Irish Water white paper at the time when they were thinking of putting in water charges. Coming from Holland where the water quality is very good i was looking at water quality levels. The paper basically said nothing about it only that you wouldnt get ill from it! I was immediately reassured..😄

antoinolachtnai

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198082#Comment_121198082

Do you think that is funny? Some sort of joke?

There were a lot of situations where local water supplies were in fact not fit for human consumption.

its far from perfect now but there is some sort of cohesion and quality management going on compared to the mess that went before.

the eighties were not as good as you remember.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193848#Comment_121193848

The council decide if they want to discount the amount. They then send you the revised bill.

Bear in mind that the payment from every third house in Dublin goes 100% out of the county.

LPT should stay in the county of origin and if the rural counties cant pay for themselves, the shortfall should be funded by central govt, not by the people of Dublin.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198390#Comment_121198390

I'm fully onboard with that approach or have the LPT increased in those counties to match the shortfall.

deholleboom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121198365#Comment_121198365

You probably do not get the irony. I am used to having a certain quality of service, especially when i am paying for it. Standards in Holland are high. In Ireland they usually are not or much less. Certainly the drinking water. Just foul. So, if a company is taking over a service and wants the customer to pay for it you expect a certain level of quality. In the case of drinking water i not only expect a proper baseline without particulates that would make you ill but also something that actually tastes good or good enough. Since there was NO mention of the actual water quality in the white paper and only a reference to the absense of poorly defined ill making substances it seems reasonable to consider that a poor deal or even no deal at all. And anyway, the standard drinking water should already be sufficient to not make you ill even IF you don't pay for it through separate water charges. I thought the white paper from Irish Water was ridiculous and ready to be mocked.

That's all..

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121196968#Comment_121196968

Many of my colleagues at the time considered water charges the final straw in a whole line of paying more for less rather than disagreeing with them per-se. From memory it was not long after a load of PAYE allowances got squeezed.

It is pretty damning that water services had to be removed from the remit of local authorities.