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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    I don't really care if many agree with me or not being completely honest. It's yet another example of government and the greens forcing people to do things they don't want to do because they couldn't be arsed doing the actual job they are paid for.

    We've a minister for tourism making it more difficult for tourism in this country and she's giving herself a massive pay on the back while doing it.

    Mind you, I shouldn't be surprised as they are the party of vested interests.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I do firmly believe now that the interests of ministers are no longer aligned with the Irish people. They will do what is best for them as individuals…..whether that is a return on their investments, or making themselves look good to future employers, whether than is an EU body or NGO. I say ‘ministers’ rather than TDs, as I don’t think these people necessarily go into local and then national government with that intent, but inevitably as they look to their own personal future they will start to work against the Irish people for their own betterment. This of course is not unique to Ireland, but the divergence of interests is greater now than it ever had been. The old brown envelopes look positively cute and harmless in comparison to todays ministers using the system to their own ends

    And absolutely I place Ryan squarely in that space. His desperation is now clear…..try do as much as possible so he can point to his endeavours when getting his next green gig.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭ginger22


    I believe in the right to do with your own property as you wish. But the it would seem you prefer a communist system.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Wow, fossils fuels are now getting strike prices State guaranteed and index linked for 25 years and are get first shot at fulfilling electricity requirements without having to provide the price and they all will get the price for their input at the top priced component, when did this happen because I seem to have missed it ?

    "The cost as it`s borne by the private companies" is so ill-informed it doesn`t need or deserve a comment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    This has come up quite a few times over in A&P forum in the past...

    AirBNB is supposed to already be de-facto banned as short lets require planning permission that councils generally do not give, but enforcement is close to non-existant. Anyway just the current set of regulations has sparked a stampede of landlords selling up and exiting the market completely.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,974 ✭✭✭893bet


    Ban Airbnb, fill the hotels with refugees then.

    Then when the tourists stop coming wonder why the hospitality sector is is struggling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    @893bet

    Ban Airbnb, fill the hotels with refugees then.

    The latter is pretty much what has already happened.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Look at the map of Germany and its position in Europe and tell us if Ireland would have the same issues with off shore wind as they have with onshore?

    High pressure can set up shop pretty much anywhere, when it does, the wind won't blow very much at all. Also, anything humans have put in the sea gets corroded.

    I am not an expert in this area and am only an ordinary consumer who agrees that it is a no brainer to increase our energy from wind and solar where possible.

    It is unreliable technology - the wind is variable, indeed sunshine is too.

    I don't understand the way people are so rigidly opposed to getting cheaper ( in the long term) cleaner energy from our obviously very windy coastline ?

    It's not providing cheaper energy though. It will never will either.

    As regards nuclear it is a expensive and costly ( in maintenance, staffing, construction and waste) way to source energy and its unbelievable that some posters here are pushing it as a viable alternative for an island nation, at this stage in our evolution.

    Nuclear is expensive, but it's reliable.

    France for example, are trying to row back from nuclear due to high maintenance and costs from corrosion, and waste management. 70 years indeed, and crumbling reactors!

    Wind turbines and solar panels have a much shorter shelf life.

    As regards the nuclear reactors in China, well, excuse me for not being wowed by that country's efforts! 

    You're happy with solar panels and wind turbines coming from China though, right?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm pretty sure the lads out protesting about the lack of housing will be fully behind this latest policy seeing as so many voters have been calling for a clampdown for years

    The next step after this is to follow the lead of so many other cities and countries around the world who have outright banned the likes of Airbnb.

    Personally I'd prefer that as it would pretty much fix the housing shortage overnight



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Offshore wind, same as onshore is intermiten and undependable. Last year we saw our generation from renewables drop from 42% in 2020 to 35% in 2021. Now offshore is the green solution plus hydrogen and favour an E.S.B. plan of having 30 Gigawatts of offshore capacity to make up for that undependable nature of wind.

    Now a question I have been asking here for quite some time is how much is that all going to cost and no green supporter so far has come up with an answer so perhaps you would care to give it a shot as to how cheap it will be ?

    Even for the initial construction cost it`s kinda important to know if you are comparing our offshore with nuclear. You build a nuclear plant and that is basically your construction costs for the following 60 years. Offshore the lifespan of turbines is around 25 years, although in the environment the are gong to be placed that is a stretch imho, so you need to add on those at the minimum three refits/total replacement in that 60 years.

    France isn`t planning on rowing back on nuclear. February this year Macron stated their intention to build 6 - 14 new large reactors as well as some modular reactors. Incidentally Poland have just signed contracts for their first three reactors, Egypt, home to COP 27 and a country that is not short on sun or indeed wind, are building their first as is Turkey.

    As you would not give much regards to China, I would tend to do the same with Germany the former heroes of Irish greens. They were the original promoters of Putin`s gas which has E.U. countries in the hole they are presently and you have only to look at correct horse battery staple`s post #17632 to see why. 47% generation from coal with wind and solar combined generating less that half that while they are refusing to use their 3 remaining nuclear plants with no CO2 emissions. Even Greta Thunberg that doyenne of greens thinks they are bonkers.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    @Danno

    It is unreliable technology - the wind is variable, indeed sunshine is too

    My big complaint with solar is the mismatch between peak supply and peak demand.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Honestly, it would be a good idea if ye could all get together and agree on which way you want to classify the greens, it's getting hard to keep track.

    In the last page they've been called dictators, communists, fascists, capitalists (paraphrasing) and a religious order.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm having a great laugh at how they are being portrayed as every possible evil, hilarious stuff



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I dont intend to suggest that this is only about the greens. Though I do think Ryan is only interested in furthering his own agenda and reputation amongst his peers at the expense of the majority of the Irish people

    what this teaches me is that it is every man (and woman) for himself (or herself). The politicians will do nothing for us and we need to whatever we need to do to put our own families first

    i might have had a more socially collaborative approach had our politicians led the way. But they’re out for themselves and therefore so am I



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Show me where I called them any of those things?

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭eggy81




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Your vested interests comment, which I marked as capitalist (paraphrased) I took that to mean vested business interests, was I wrong? By all means clarify what you meant and I'll edit the post. It would be good to know which particular branding you want assigned



  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Phil McCracken


    That’s why we’re getting an interconnector



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    And if Ireland needs power, I can really see the French leaving 0.5m French houses in the dark so Paddy can carry on regardless... 🙄

    But the reality is the French could at best push 700mw down the line, so not enough to power a county like Dublin or Cork really.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You really should go have a good read up on how interconnectors work in the European grid, seriously lol



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    They are glorified extension leads.

    The one from France which is not going to supplying anything until at least 2026, is the one dopey Eamon was telling us in 2021 would be keeping our lights on by availing of French nuclear when greens had left us without adequate conventional generation and having inadequate back-up in place. We have another extension lead to Moffat that our own regulator has said is insecure and which under E.U. energy security directives has us in non-compliance.

    That you believe that is somehow a reason for amusement says a lot about you and your fellow runners in the Irish Green Party,



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    So we can piggy-back off French nuclear while Irish greens hypocritically condemn it ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Phil McCracken


    On the one hand you rant on about, o we should have nuclear and then when we are going to connect to a nuclear power base you rant on about the country not going in balls deep. Your like a child who sees another child with a bigger ice cream an cry’s outrage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Vested interests, as in, pushing forward a daft ideology that will make this country a poorer place all in the same of "improving" it.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭Phil McCracken


    Vested interests as in big business,? businesses look to sell things It doesn’t make sense that they want to make their customers poorer cause then they would go out of business.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    As electricity consumers we have gotten spoiled by being able to walk into a dark room, turn on a light switch, any time day or night. Lately the cost of that has many parents scolding their children with the familiar "Turn off the lights, do you think I'm made of money?".

    Random energy generation sources like wind and solar are unreliable and adding their output to the grid imposes management overhead costs that are currently not borne by the generators themselves, us consumers pay that. The price of electricity is the transmission cost (infrastructure) + highest cost bidder and in this case it is gas.  The wind generator operators are not complaining, they are literally earning "windfall" profits on the back of gas prices.


    Alternating current has to be maintained by Eirgrid at a frequency of 50Hz. Little deviation from this figure is allowed.

    The highest demand for electricity happens during cold weather, the lower the temperature the more demand for electricity. The highest demand of all time in Ireland, occurred on 21 December 2010, 17:30.

    As demand by consumers (domestic and industrial) increases during the day, the frequency starts to drop below 50Hz and more power generation needs to be bought online. This is why the grid operator has to pay attention to events like the World cup final and years ago, Coronation Street, so many people turned the kettle on during the ad breaks.  When demand cannot be met by generators, Eirgrid takes demand management steps, some high demand industrial users have an agreement to disconnect from the grid and fall back on their own generation, usually diesel generators.  If this is not enough, Eirgrid can cut the flow to some substations and some consumers experience a blackout.  If they did not take this action the entire grid would collapse quickly. Restarting Irelands electrical grid (called a black start) would be difficult and take several weeks to complete, losses would also ensue to consumers through loss of production and damaged electrical equipment. Such a situation is to be avoided.

    On the other hand when there is too much generation, the excess power must be curtailed by Eirgrid and dumped, this is wasteful and also expensive because the costs of that curtailment are passed to us consumers. There are other technical issues caused by having wind and solar on the grid. I'll not get into them here.

    Onshore wind has a capacity factor of 25%, offshore wind is 35% and solar is 11%, this means their output is variable and to maintain a stable grid other generation sources must be on standby.  In Ireland, the generation system uses a combination of coal, natural gas, gas peaker and oil to make up the generation shortfalls when the wind stops blowing. The country has inter-connectors to the UK, depending on market demand the country exports electricity from gas generation.  If you look at the following graph, you can see wind generation for Ireland drop to minus 2 MW on March 1st for two hours this year.  It does not matter how many wind turbines there are, no wind = no generation.    There are not batteries big enough or cheap enough to manage a situation like that, their function in Ireland is maintain stability, batteries are not generators.



    Electrical grids that use wind and solar are entirely dependent on natural gas peaker plants and other standby generators to make up the shortfalls.  Germany now burns more coal generating electricity than when they started the energy transition (Energiewende), this was before the Russo-Ukraine war, they also have a word for a condition when the wind does not blow and the sun does not shine called dunkelflaute. Due to the unreliable nature of wind and solar generation, Germany can rarely have scenarios where there is so much power generated and they have to pay consumers to use the power, the problem with this is the cost of that is borne by the other generators (coal & gas), the coal and gas generators recoup their costs as peak demand each day, they can command higher prices because they can generate power on demand.  These plants do have their economic limits, there have been situations were the price being offered is not worth their while and they have refused to supply power, it took grovelling from the German grid operator to get the Polish and Swiss companies to prevent a loss of power to some regions in Germany on one occasion.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The protection of the nations biodiversity could be a constitutional requirement if proposals for a referendum by the Citizens Assembly are followed through

    RTE news : Call to protect biodiversity and nature in Constitution





  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Best of luck getting any of those renewable projects off the ground if that get put into the constitution. It's already difficult enough.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    What do you expect when designated amateurs are presented one-sided evidence, and dished up a list of preordained recommendations to be endorsed. It is a proposal to turn rural Ireland into a wildlife theme park.

    https://www.citizensassembly.ie/en/assembly-on-biodiversity-loss/submissions/citizens-assembly-on-biodiversity-loss-submissions.html#organisations

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,126 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Not at all. Just an adult that recognises the hypocrisy of people who are more than happy to use an energy source as long somebody else is doing the heavy lifting, while condemning it in favour of their own plan that they cannot even give the most basic financial costings for.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Who decides what biodiversity a dearth of native trees and few structural timber producing native trees, and even the most common of those ash is dying everywhere. Some of these same zealots seem to think that beech and sycamore are native, while the other "experts" want any non-native tree, conifer or broadleaf eliminated. Just because someone visits a hospital, that doesn't confer a competency in medicine.

    Leave this to the experts.




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