"Green" policies are destroying this country

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119929423#Comment_119929423

AFAIK, Sycamore trees and rabbits were introduced by the Normans. Practically the entire landscape we see in Ireland today is shaped by man. We are living on an island that was once barren tundra in the aftermath of the last ice age ~13,000 years ago. Likely people lived further out on the continental shelf along ancient rivers, before they moved to the current higher ground level ~8,000 years ago following the great flood. The Irish landscape has been shaped by man ever since, there were likely much fewer plant and animal species in Ireland prior to the arrival of humans, and there is greater biodiversity on this island today in terms of animal and plant species found here than 8,000 years ago. The story of the people on this island is one of adaption to their surroundings to make the land habitable and productive.

There is another nasty movement pushed by the Greens under the cover of biodiversity, it is the legal fiction of ecocide.

In Ireland, the concept of ecocide has already gained traction. In 2013, the Green Party voted unanimously to pass a motion condemning ecocide, and in 2020 the party supported a motion ‘that the Greens recommend that the Oireachtas in organising the next Irish Citizens’ Assembly on biodiversity, explore ecocide (manmade destruction of ecosystems) as an urgent priority. source

If you thought the Spanish inquisition was history (or Monty Python sketch), these people are pushing for a legal framework to unleash that terror again. If they could get this passed, they would prosecute a farmer for clearing his land or heaven forbid, cutting back the hedges by the roadside (this law has become a public hazard, the field of vision is reduced for drivers, anyone walking country roads is forced outwards, as a cyclist I have no option but to move to the primary position on the country road due to briars sticking out at eye level). Or what about the car driver, who fills his car up with petrol? Are they criminals too?

It's not just the Greens, the Catholic hierarchy are considering introducing this as a sin in the Catechism.

Protection of the environment by criminal law

It is true that the criminal response comes when the crime has been committed, that it does not repair damage or prevent repetition, and that it rarely has dissuasive effects. It is also true that, because of its structural selectivity, the sanctioning function usually affects the most vulnerable sectors. I am also aware that there is a punitivist current that claims to resolve the most varied social problems through the penal system.

Instead, an elementary sense of justice would require that certain conduct, for which corporations are usually responsible, does not go unpunished.

In particular, all those that can be considered as “ecocide”: the massive contamination of air, land and water resources, the large-scale destruction of flora and fauna, and any action capable of producing an ecological disaster or destroying an ecosystem. We must introduce – we are thinking about it – in the Catechism of the Catholic Church the sin against ecology, the ecological sin against the common home, because it is a duty. source

They are using language to cynically invoke thoughts of the evil of genocide, and doing so in a manner to demonise human activity that impacts on the environment. It is typical of the arrogant, intolerant view among Greens in particular that says people who do what we have been doing in Ireland for millennia i.e. fell forests, clear land for agriculture, elevate human needs over a sanctified view of nature – are guilty of a crime and deserve to be punished.

Phil McCracken

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119929390#Comment_119929390

Where are your jeans made .

Phil McCracken

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119929541#Comment_119929541

You must not be aware how extension leads or for that matter how electricity works.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119929667#Comment_119929667

And it's not a new thing either. In 2019 the Guardian updates it's style guide to use more "scientifically" correct language. So it's not enough to say climate change, it has to be a clime emergency or crisis. This isn't a coincidence either. People weren't taking it seriously enough apparently so we needed to hear more extreme phrases.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/17/why-the-guardian-is-changing-the-language-it-uses-about-the-environment

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119929795#Comment_119929795

Jeans security? Is that needed or an absolute necessity

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119929879#Comment_119929879

Similarly with the Irish Times.

One of the most biased anti-forestry viewpoints out there.

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119929879#Comment_119929879

RTE adopted the very same political science style guide. Covering Climate Now (CCNow) is an advocacy geoup operating out of the Columbia Journalism Review (CJR) at Columbia University in New York in the USA. Their purpose is to spread fear and alarm about, or, as they say "raise public awareness of" . . . what they claim is a "Climate Emergency" or "Climate Crisis". They are overtly political, liberal-progressive and in the U.S.’s two-party political system, not only actively support and promote the Democratic party and its policy platforms, but overtly urge blaming the opposing Republican party for failing to support climate alarmism – to the extreme that they call for "political leaders who deny the well-established science of climate change "should be tried for crimes against humanity." RTEs sole shareholder is Eamon Ryan of the green party in his role as minister for communications. RTEs adoption of this language is political bias, likely motivated by their shoddy finances.

Anyone who's been on the continent should be familiar with this one.

We should see a lot higher rates of recycling from this. Not to mention tidier streets and environment

RTE news : Plastic bottle and can recycling scheme being launched

http://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/1128/1338681-bottle-scheme/

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119929998#Comment_119929998

A whole industry created out of nothing. Fully intact cans and bottles will need to be brought in to newly built handling areas in retailers resulting in unnecessary journeys and congestion, perhaps the worst green idea in this country in 100 years. Additionally consumers will face massive increases in their waste disposal costs as their waste provider will lose millions in income. A solution for a problem that is simply not there.

kabakuyu

Good news, oil price is starting to fall, lowest since January, we should see more affordable home heating oil in the next few weeks 😀lets hope the suppliers are quicker to apply the cheaper prices, their increases in prices are usually applied overnight😐️.No doubt this is bad news for the GP, they were jubilant with the high cost of oil and the hardship it imposed on people, hopefully their usual pompous pronouncements will be less frequent.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/28/oil-markets-china-covid-demand-opec.html

Phil McCracken

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119929892#Comment_119929892

why don’t you direct all your knowledge and experience into a letter to the minister instead of regurgitating the same tired argument on here over and over, you may even get an answer that your not happy with and the cycle will continue as it does here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119930124#Comment_119930124

Enjoy it while it lasts, once China lifts its mega lockdowns and restarts the economy, there'll be another shortfall and prices will climb again as the glut will disappear.

Don't forget Russian crude is about to be pulled from the market on Dec 5th and Russian refined products will be gone from Feb 2023.

Not forgetting carbon taxes are only going one way

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119930159#Comment_119930159

Whats wrong with you Decor, why the delight at the thought that your fellow citizens will have to pay more to keep warm next year, should you not be happy that some old folk may not die from hypothermia or other cold related problems, you are on here every day telling us how the GP clean air policy will save some lives over the winter, are you saying that the Greenies are happy enough to see people dying from fuel poverty,maybe thats the real green agenda surfacing.

The greens dont give a flying f"$% about middle or rural Ireland, they only look after their own rich elite.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119930159#Comment_119930159

You sound positively excited about the prospect. I don’t think it’s healthy to be obviously relishing so much the hardships that that would pose to many of your less well off countrymen. It oozes out of all your posts and I’m certainly glad I don’t know you in real life

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119930196#Comment_119930196

Not delight, just some realism

Everyone thought the crash of oil prices back in Apr 2020 was the death knell for renewables because oil ended up in negative territory. As we've seen, fossil fuel pricing has been going only one way for the last 2 decades, with just a few interruptions

The graph below shows the major drops, the 2008 crash, the Saudi glut (trying to kill off the Shale producers in the US) and covid. Each of these were basically blips in the upward trajectory

https://www.statista.com/statistics/262858/change-in-opec-crude-oil-prices-since-1960/

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119930220#Comment_119930220

Sorry I Dont buy it , you and some of your green acolytes appear to be gloating at the difficulties that your fellow citizens are experiencing in the current times, there is a stench of smugness emanating from the greenies that is vomit inducing, not a good look for the GP but it has opened alot of peoples eyes to the Green partys detestable treatment of some sectors of Irish society.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119930241#Comment_119930241

Well personally I think any type of car ownership is a bad financial decision regardless. Personally I prefer to walk, cycle, use PT and have the extra few quid in my pocket

I was trying to think of the word that appropriately reflected the way they come across and you’re right - smugness. Mixed in with a superiority and ‘I’m alright, Jack’ vibe.

Very much counter productive if their aim is to bring people with them

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119930262#Comment_119930262

annnnnnnnnnnnnnd again I'll repeat, you don't have to be a member of the GP to be concerned about the environment.

I've never voted for a GP candidate in any election and am not a member of the party

Are all union members also members of the Labour party?

Are all farmers members of FF?

Are all drug dealers, criminals and terrorists members of SF..... umm, maybe don't answer that one, MLM might sue someone 😉

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119930329#Comment_119930329

Not in Dublin either lol, live in a rural town

You really do need to remember the hot iron branding and indentured servitude, its not that hard. Get one of those clipboard apps so you can copy and paste the full set of nonsense because you keep leaving bits out

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119930325#Comment_119930325

You might not be a member of the GP but you come across in the same way. And I think that is problematic for your cause. Do you not see that? Probably not. In the same way that actual GP members don’t

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119930351#Comment_119930351

The only ones I piss off are the pro-pollution or stuck-in-their-ways folks. Everyone else just gets on with it and as can be seen by the growth in PT users, people adjust and will make different choices

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119930387#Comment_119930387

Yes, that’s kind of my point. Your communication style goes out of the way to maximise the level of antagonism. Just like the greens. It’s like you’re intentionally trying to wind people up with the smug way in which the message is delivered. You know full well what you’re doing and it’s disingenuous to deny it. For example, dropping links with no comment other than “good news” or “great to see”. When it is almost always more nuanced than that.

You’re certainly playing your part in winding people up and therefore hardening their stance against you. Which, like I said, surely compromises your cause. Unless said cause is just to make you feel superior and not to actually persuade and bring people along.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119930437#Comment_119930437

Not really, just some here get annoyed that I don't toe the line of belly-aching about positive climate related stories.

If you want an echo-chamber, a discussion forum with opposing views is not the place for it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119930453#Comment_119930453

Your response shows that you just don’t get it, which I knew would be the outcome. A bit of introspection probably wouldn’t go amiss but you’ll probably continue to wallow in your superiority and smugness. I’ll leave it there.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119930325#Comment_119930325

If you are as concerned about the environment as you claim then surely you understand that driving more people into poverty by making energy more and more expensive is the exact opposite to what should be done.

It's been well established that the less poverty in a country, the less they pollute. By increasing poverty, those people that you want to move to a "greener society" will just move further away from it. Look at Germany and the increase in wood burning due to price increases for natural gas and other energy sources.

We don't live in a world with infinite resources that can be pumped into whatever the latest fad may be, see the green hydrogen economy as proof of such wishful thinking. We need sensible solutions that don't degrade people's quality of life while also continuing to make incremental steps to reduce emissions and clean up the country.

Making energy more expensive by continuing with marginal pricing, carbon taxes, and solid/fossil fuel bans is counterproductive in so many ways. In fact, it's so counterproductive that to me it comes across as not really caring about the environment but wanting to punish people for something they have little control over.

I don't buy that's it borne from a concern about the environment, more to do with being vindictive that others don't live the same lifestyle as you and relying on government dictates to ensure compliance to what you precieve as being the "right" way.

Furze99

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022/1128/1338681-bottle-scheme/

So what's this new Green scheme about? More detail required perhaps.

If I read it correctly, we are now going to be taxed more on plastic bottles and cans. If we bring them to a machine, we get some money back but presumably less than we paid in tax as all in the chain have to get their bit.

Where does this leave the vast majority of responsible householders who currently would put such bottles and cans in their recycling bins? Are we to pay this additional tax as well and now have an extra chore thrown on us, to separate these out and bring to these machines??? Or do we put them in our recycle bins and just take the hit on the tax?

The Greens have a way of really pissing people off, so hopefully they have thought this out fully and not screwed it up again.

dickdasr1234

I don't think you have to back the lid too!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119930568#Comment_119930568

It's already been in trials in a few locations around the country over the last 18 months and has been working on the continent for decades.

Essentially a "tax/levy/whatever" gets applied to the bottle or can at point of purchase, e.g. 15 cents. This can be claimed back when you dispose of the bottle or can in the designated location. The idea being there will be a return point at shops/supermarkets so you dump your empties when you do your next shopping trip.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119930618#Comment_119930618

Self service machines I heard the bould Oisin say.. but these cost to install and take up space and then those handling have to be paid. So expect to get less back in tax than we pay. The question though I have, is whether Panda etc will give us refunds based on our bin contents?