"Green" policies are destroying this country

opinionated3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119996959#Comment_119996959

Out of interest, what incentives are the Finnish government giving their citizens towards retrofits? The cost here, with the paltry grants on offer, is the biggest turn off for most working and mortgaged people.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997119#Comment_119997119

Those are the prices for household consumption and Finland has the same population as Ireland so why do you think Finland`s land area makes any difference ?

Do you not think it is a more important question to seek an answer too, rather than why Finnish households consume 300% more than Irish households, is how they can generate that higher level of electricity and their price per unit is 50% cheaper ?

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997301#Comment_119997301

I don't think I mentioned land area at all? I'm talking about their actual consumption per capita, its 3 times ours. So they require 3 times the energy we do, hence they have 4 nuclear plants. Ireland having 4 nuclear plants on the go would be crazy.

On your second question, mostly likely because 50% (and rising) of their supply comes from renewables. If nuclear was reason for their cheaper power, why would they be increasing renewables and not nuclear?

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119996996#Comment_119996996

Taking natural gas out of the marginal pricing policy is taking a long time for the E.U. to make a decision on.

I wonder what is taking so long. Could it possibly be that for certain energy suppliers it would drastically lower their profits ?

It`s not as if they will be losing money if their renewables are as cheap as they say. They will still be getting the rate for oil or coal whichever is the most expensive on the day

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119996683#Comment_119996683

Is that not ~30% cheaper than Ireland?

Also interesting to note that their prices have been increasing while ours have been decreasing.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997344#Comment_119997344

Same population so why would four nuclear plants here be crazy ?

Finland are getting 10% of their electricity from wind. We get 35% and our charges are 50% more expensive.

Denmark gets 48% from wind and are almost 250% more expensive than Finland

Finland gets 40% of it`s supply from nuclear. If nuclear is so expensive, according to some here in comparison to wind, then is it not logical that Finland`s rates in comparison to Ireland and Denmark`s share from wind should be proportionally more expensive rather than cheaper ?

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997427#Comment_119997427

You're talking sense here but the greens will double-down with some wishy washy EU plans and still remain convinced that should one day we become independent of fossil fuels then finally, wind powered electricity will be cheap and we'll all be better off, until that day has passed and the wind eases of course.

I await my 2c per KWh rate for a random February day in 2034. It'll be back up to 75c the day after.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997395#Comment_119997395

If you want to split hairs our price is 41% more expensive than Finland`s.

I don`t know about Finland`s increasing, but ours is decreasing due to the decreas in the price of natural gas, not as some here would attempt to suggest is due to wind.

But that does not explain why Finland with so little cheap wind compared to Ireland or Denmark have such high generation and unit prices so much cheaper though does it ?

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997427#Comment_119997427

Because they have 3 times our demand?

Wind is one part of renewables, there are of course others.

Their 10% from wind is roughly equal to our 35%, thats what 3 times the consumption means!

Again, if Nuclear is so cheap, why are Finland increasing their renewables at the cost of nuclear? Why isn't every country throwing up nuclear plants?

Why is Nuclear facility growth effectively flat since the 1980s?

Output graph isnt that much better at all

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997490#Comment_119997490

Lol I gave up a long time ago on greens talking sense. They talk the talk of a cult where everything in their green bible has to be defended regardless. Sense isn`t a consideration.

If I make it to 2034 I have more faith in my bog bank keeping me warm than a 2c per KWh.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997536#Comment_119997536

So I see the chances of a grown-up conversation have diminished significantly, pity really.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997193#Comment_119997193

So wind farms won’t get the marginal price for electricity as they get decoupled from conventional generators.

So they won’t make massive profits anymore just the regular profits they would have made before gas went haywire yeah?

So the question is will shareholders be happy with this and will they be willing to invest in expansion of wind farm numbers knowing they won’t make as much profit as they were before they were decoupled from gas prices.

Nationalising wind farms wouldn’t be a bad thing imo.

The Real President Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119992448#Comment_119992448

Well it has for those turbines, that grid and those (us) people

No, no, no, you are the one who speaks of storage, stop trying to run away off somewhere else regional, stand your ground, don't run like a typical green when challenged

Right so if it's a global problem how will all our efforts make any difference without china changing it's ways

And also every smart company does have it's own server room rather than swinging it's dik in the metaphorical wind*

*Because like there is no actual wind at the moment

buried

Judging by the daily 100 page jump count on this thread, Green policies are definitely doing something to this country.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997521#Comment_119997521

The can supply 3 times the demand for 42% cheaper than here, yet they have less than a third of their electricity generated from wind is the real issue. Not that have 3 times a higher demand than here.. Nealy 5 times less generation from wind than Denmark ,yet their electricity is almost 2.5 times cheaper. Does that not sound strange to you ?

Their other only real renewable energy source is hydro, but even with that their percentages are still lower than here Like Germany they do burn a fair bit of wood, but greens can hardly claim that is a carbon neutral source, and they went back to harvesting peat this year, but I doubt greens would see that as a renewable.

So none of that can explain such high generation for such a low price compared to here or Denmark so it must be something, else do you not think ?

I do not see the logic in 10% being the same as 35% due to their demand, unless you think they should cull 2/3 of their population. Although I can see the thinking behind it from what we saw here with cattle number in relation to Brazil.

The Real President Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119992453#Comment_119992453

Don't bother addressing the point of having to pay to export your power, the point of everyone trying to do the same thing at the same time

And again there's no storage of cash just a great big sucking noise of corporate leeches enabled by the greens. If the wind was so razamatazz there'd never need to be a refit or strike price, the green oligarchs plants would cut the mustard on their own

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997704#Comment_119997704

Is their wind capacity increasing or decreasing?

I'll ask again, if Nuclear is the reason for their cheap electricity, when is their investment going into renewables rather than nuclear?

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997606#Comment_119997606

My conversation was with @Danno

What that has to do with my conversation with you I fail to see.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997739#Comment_119997739

Your conversation is:

• Public
• Derogatory
• Childish

The Real President Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119993463#Comment_119993463

Omg. The Japanese made a political decision to halt power production, same as the Germans both of which are in the shït now and both burning coal

They ain't penny pinching, they've just had their corporate welfare and have now fùcked off leaving swathes of waste behind, a phenomenally green approach as always, all ideology and no intellect

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997747#Comment_119997747

I got a ban for calling out a poster for constant link dumping and questioning his conversation………..

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997728#Comment_119997728

Why do greens always run off into a future dream world when confronted with inconvenient facts.

The facts are that with considerably less wind energy than either Ireland or Denmark, they can generate 3 times the electricity we do and their charges per unit are 42% cheaper than ours and almost 2.5 times cheaper than Denmark with almost 5 times as much wind generation.

I mean, you were the poster who wanted to talk about Finland was you, so I presume you have a reason for those statistics. It`s either a yes or a no. Rambling about some dream future world isn`t an answer.

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997795#Comment_119997795

Erm, the future is kinda important when you are talking about capital expenditure?

Again, the facts are that they are investing in renewables over nuclear, why is this if nuclear is the cause of their cheap power?

Actually someone else brought Finland into the conversation, not me.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997747#Comment_119997747

Good manner prevent me from listing yours.

If you do not like my posts then there is an ignore option.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997821#Comment_119997821

Can you ignore on mobile?

Not sure how ya do that?

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997809#Comment_119997809

LOl. I almost fell of my chair.

This from somebody that is a supporter of the ESB plan but has not a clue about the capital expenditure involved.

You do realise don`t you that Fortum, Finland`s utilities company, are carrying out a feasibility study on building more nuclear plants as well ?

But that is like possible future windmills, neither here nor there. How Finland can generate so much electricity with so much less wind power than Ireland or Denmark for a unit cost to the consumer considerably less is the real question. But you obviously have no answer to that, so no point in running around in circles with you and cluttering up the place.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997855#Comment_119997855

Skip past perhaps ?

ps200306

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997625#Comment_119997625

So the question is will shareholders be happy with this and will they be willing to invest in expansion of wind farm numbers knowing they won’t make as much profit as they were before they were decoupled from gas prices.

Will they heck! New wind power is already under pressure from inflation and rising interest rates. Green-obsessed governments can only agree to pay their extortionate prices for so long before they have riots on their hands. Like every bubble that gets popped by an economic downturn, the green investment bubble is about to run into the brick wall of reality. The EU have been promising to curb the free money scam for several years now but haven't been able to do it yet because ... well, I guess because they know nobody will be bidding for renewable projects once the guaranteed massive returns go away. The big consultancy firms that have been following country-by-country renewables policies (look them up, you can find the stuff online easily enough) will be advising their Big Wind corporate clients to move on to the next money making opportunity.

ILoveYourVibes

So nuclear fusion ...gonna destroy this country is it?

KildareP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997111#Comment_119997111

I don't see why you would use energy per capita as a metric over raw grid supply and demand?

Their grid demand is roughly about double ours throughout the year. When you look at why, it's primarily because they are a lot further down the road of electrification of home heating than us and in a colder climate.

While we have a milder climate, we have a much larger all-island population to move over to electrified heating and transport.

Thus, we need to look ahead at where our grid demand profile is headed and decide based on that, not continue to look at our historical demand and insist our grid is way too small for ~1GW generators.