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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This will be of interest to @Jonnyc135




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,059 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I agree with this. More flim-flam.

    And thats the way we like it. Specifics like charging those in Urban areas for work parking and ramping up urban street parking charges and removing parking from business and retail areas of urban areas and rural towns would have provoked a political firestorm that Leo Varadkar in particular is keenly averse to.

    • Change the way we use our road space.
    • (a largely empty statement)
    • Reduce the total distance driven across all car journeys by 20%.
    • (already the case on Fridays, so just do whatever happens that day!)
    • Walking, cycling and public transport to account for 50% of our journeys.
    • (its already 70% in Dublin, way to be aspirational!)
    • Nearly 1 in 3 private cars will be an Electric Vehicle.
    • (doesn't get rid of any private cars though, just makes them faster and quieter!)
    • Increase walking and cycling networks.
    • (more non specific, non performatory guff. We already have these, they are called roads and footpaths)
    • 70% of people in rural Ireland will have buses that provide at least 3 trips to the nearby town daily by 2030.
    • (that'll be nice for those who don't drive for whatever reason)




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,115 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Absolute nonsense.

    There are verifiable figures from the U.K on offshore costs and rolling capacity where best case, even before the price of turbines were due to increase in price, was €83 Billion for the turbine section alone for 30 GW that would provide 6.3 GW for domestic consumption.


    The idea from a group that criticises any alternatives put forward on the basis that "this is Ireland, no way could that be done here for that price" now attempting to claim we could do cheaper than the U.K. for offshore is laughable disingenuous farce.

    Hand waving that away plus the strike price being an irrelevance to the consumer due to it being doubled, plus all the hydrogen element being added, (none of which you or any green can give a cost for) on top of the double strike price is kids in a playground behaviour

    There is no "plan". To have a plan you have to have the cost of a plan. All there is is a green wet dream that even the most basic analysis shows to be completely financially bonkers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,115 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    In other words yet another plan where greens have not a clue as to how it would be financed.

    For people who supposedly worry so much about the future due to climate change, none of you seems to live in anything other than a day by day make believe world.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,244 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    What? You missed the sarcasm in those posts I take it.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well its your fantasy scenario so I guess you'll have to figure out the make believe answers 🤷‍♂️

    It is amusing that you seem irked that I won't expend any energy doing unrealistic calculations for your fantasy though



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,459 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,115 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    It`s not my plan to get rid of all ICE vehicles, it`s the greens plan. If you believe there is something strawman in that, then take it up with them.

    Road upkeep is paid from a pot where motorists contribute VRT, motor tax and pay proportional to their usage by way of fuel taxes. Greens are more than happy to spout about users pays when it`s not their pet projects, but now for cyclists and EV users there is nothing going into the pot for road use comparable to ICE users and I have yet to see where there is anything to even suggest they favour changing that.

    All I see is the the hypocrisy on their "user pays" being nothing other than everybody else pays for their usage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,609 ✭✭✭Tonesjones




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,115 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Maybe we should get a few things clear first.

    We use gas because without it we would all be sitting in the dark. Some worse off than others who do not have a fireplace that can heat their homes.

    Renewables did not lower rhe price of electricity by one cent and they were paid the same unit rate as Tynagh Energy with the added advantage they got to have first shot at filling reuirements, and making loads of dosh doing so.

    As regards electricity prices, the are falling due to the fall in the price of gas where for the rest of Europe demand has dropped due to them having their storage facilities filled. Had they adopted the Irish Green`s approach on storage, the price would not be dropping.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭Jonnyc135


    Unfortunately it is of no interest to me or any farmer or SME as they are locked out of the EU ETS where then can avail of trading carbon and offsetting like the big boys that are in the ETS can - grotesquely corrupt on an unprecedented level.

    Baring in mind, as I have gone over multiple times, any of the sectors covered by the effort sharing ie. industries no big enough to partake in the ETS get their carbon shipped away into the ETS by the member state that has in fact no legal ownership or right to that carbon.

    This complete double standard sickens me, and every green is up backing the EU to the hilt thinking their making great progress and implementing wholesome changes due to their ETS it is absolute lies. Why won't RTE or any EU mainstream media report on this, we will never know we can only speculate.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    CAP23 outlines the plans for electricity

    A look back

    As to the increase in prices and what we can do to address such things happening again in the future

    Since 2021, there have been significant increases in prices in the international oil and gas markets, due to increased demand as the post-COVID 19 recovery continues and the disruption to traditional energy supplies following the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The resultant sharp increase in energy prices underlines the importance for Ireland to eliminate our dependency on fossil fuels and that an increase in renewable energy generation, along with supporting flexibility and demand management measures, is necessary for our future energy security.

    There's a list of specific actions to accelerate the rollout of renewables

    For 2023 alone

    For the period 2023-2025 inclusive you can see how the above list leads on to follow up actions in 2024 & 2025, below is just an excerpt, but there's several pages that continue like this for the above list


    Its nice to see this level of multi-year, step-by-step, planning and its prevalent throughout the document



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Is it just me or does Eamonn Ryan sound proper pissed off on Newstalk?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,115 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    LOL Me irked ? Not in the slightest

    To busy laughing at your increasingly desperate hand waving away attempts of dismissing verifiable costing for plans you favour.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    On buildings the CAP23 lays out the following

    The NZEB & ZEB targets are interesting. Buying a new home from 2030 onwards built to those standards will take feck all to heat

    Lots of changes coming on standards and regulations

    As regards retrofitting, they're going to struggle unless we get more people trained up to do the work but they have a long list of actions nonetheless but good to see training is factored in. I won't copy the retrofitting list of actions here as its several pages long, but its on page 176 for anyone interested



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Planning?

    Nothing but meaningless business speak with absolutely zero substance. Lots of frameworks, policy reviews, working groups, more frameworks, strategy papers, reviews, guff, guff, and more guff. If I sent that nonsense up to senior leadership in my company I'd be laughed out the door.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    Reading the Climate Action Plan (though the alignment is pissing me off)

    An Annex is mentioned a few times as showing how they intend to achieve these goals and the plans involved, is this available anywhere?

    The CAP has a real middle management buzzword vibe off it



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭Jonnyc135


    No loss some areshole anyway, I love how in all of these debates they never have anyone meaningful who actually knows their facts and will challenge them and call them out for what it is.

    I bet if Eamon was asked about the EU ETS he wouldn't even know a fraction of the ends and outs of it, instead heed just read the script from the EU regarding how brilliant it is - not the corrupt two tiered system that benefits the big corporations so so balantly at the detriment of everyone else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,244 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Can you show me the green plan to get rid of all ICE vehicles "in the morning" as you claimed? You simply made that up out of nowhere, pure fantasy. 👍

    Now for the reality The vast VAST majority of tax revenues in Ireland comes from Income tax, VAT and Corporation tax, in that order. Those taxes make up over 85% of the general pot revenues. On the other hand VRT is c.€780m or 1.1% of the pot and motor tax is c.€907m in 2022 or 1.3% of the pot. They don't even cover the normal road maintenance budget, nevermind the capex on new roads, bypasses etc.

    If you want a road usage tax then go and campaign for it. But your fellow motorists won't be happy with you when they have to pay it also on top of everything else.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah no idea whats going on with the alignment. I guess it looks fine in the printed version, but its off-putting in the pdf version

    The annex is missing or to be released later, no idea.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Repeating an incorrect answer does not make it correct 🤷‍♂️



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭Luxembourgo


    The annex is the important bit 😂😂 I'm going to follow up with them.

    The alignment is amateur hour



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    The annex is no doubt undergoing a review now with a view to putting a roapmap in place to develop a framework before it gets released sometime in 2030.

    The alignment is what happens when you save as a .doc as a .pdf rather than printing as a .pdf and don't bother proof reading what you've saved. Most likely due to the fact they probably don't have the software available to do that.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    On Transport, CAP23 lays out the following

    Everything in the CAP for transport is based on the Avoid - Shift - Improve approach

    One of the ways the govt is leading by example, is in procurement. from Jan 1st 2023, with a few exceptions, all new vehicles purchased by the govt will have to be zero emissions. An example of an exception would be where no EV version exists yet, think heavy plant machinery or highly specialized equipment like a fire engine.

    There is a lot about disincentivising private vehicle use and incentivizing sustainable modes, most of which has been discussed here a lot over the last week so no surprises there. Some additional bits are

    • Going forward, the only parking minimums that will be applied will be for disabled parking.
    • The remit of the NTA will be extended to cover all cities to bring some coherence and an "approach consistent with the Climate Action Plan objectives for transport"
    • Road space reallocation will feature more prominently as time goes on
    • The safe routes to school program is to be expanded, specifically to reduce the "school run" car trips
    • By making school buses free it showed there was massive hidden demand. More to come on this, expect to see this expanded further
    • Planning decisions will have to give greater significance to access to sustainable travel modes. We're already seeing this with ABP and local councils refusing applications/appeals due to developments that rely solely on the car yet are within the likes of Galway city
    • Greater Dublin Area Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy to be published next year. Galways one is to be updated (similar to Limerick & Waterford)
    • As all county councils have to develop their own Climate Action Plans, there will be engagement with them especially as regards transport
    • Speed management and enforcement to be advanced (no idea what this entails but likely a 30k limit rollout nationally
    • Incentives coming for the purchase of e-bikes & e-cargo bikes as an alternative to the car

    A new National Demand Management Strategy (DMS) to be developed in 2023. This is similar to the 5CDMS that I've mentioned here a few times

    Based on the evidence set out in the Five Cities Demand Management Study and the NTA’s modelling analysis, potentially effective measures include removing free workplace parking; increased parking charges; introduction of congestion and road user charging; and increased fossil fuel prices. Demand management will also be supported by road space reallocation and other planned measures, such as shared mobility and mobility-as-a-service.

    Development of the DMS will require a strong evidence basis, a public consultation process and cross-Government collaboration given the linkages with policies on taxation, planning, and urban and rural regeneration. Demand side measures will only be effective and acceptable when alternative, more sustainable, options are available. 

    What this means in practice is in the cities and towns there will be increased demand management measures implemented as these locations will already have buses, paths, and in time, bike infrastructure.

    There are pages and pages of actions listed under the Transport heading, far too many to list everything here so I'll just show a few bits




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,059 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Eamon Ryan doing his best to get a week of gigs at Vicar Street there!

    🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    First off - establish a taskforce. Another Quango to leech off public finances.

    Then they go on to publish four reports

    Following that they go for a jolly off to the Eirgrid office to issue them a tut tut over connecting things to the grid

    The seventh action despite there being a total of twenty seven for the entirety of 2023 is to publish an annual report. This is probably an admission of how much this quango will get done.

    The rest of the document is yet more reports to be published.

    From all the reports, guidelines and policies they plan to do there'll be fookin nothing left of the Amazon for all the paperwork these goons intend burying the nation in.

    Another talking shop for the well heeled and it'll cost us a pretty penny.

    The sooner these shower of tramps are voted out of office the better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Whats most alarming there is the Journal actually asked a cutting question. That €300,000 they got off the EU must have enabled them to hire a real journalist.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    It's off the back of this abomination

    Look at the waffle in this "Bill". How can the following be even measured to know if it compliant with the bill. I fear for where we are heading as a country with this kind of guff being promoted and written into law.

    "Places on a statutory basis a 'national climate objective', which commits to pursue and achieve no later than 2050, the transition to a climate resilient, biodiversity-rich, environmentally-sustainable and climate-neutral economy"

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    It's easy to translate: Those very well connected contacts appointments to oversee the plan will earn handsomely from this, all while doing fook-all. Around the year 2052 a tribunal will be set up to over see where it all went wrong and more very well connected contacts appointments will get another handsome payout for doing fook-all more.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The inverse being "OMG they are doing X, Y & Z without studying the best way to do it or the effects they'll have"

    Damned if you do....



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