"Green" policies are destroying this country

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120869345#Comment_120869345

If you cannot answer my question how in a world where one of the richest industries (oil industry(, has the support of one of the biggest communication platforms (conservative media) cannot broadcast these people speaking the truth that you refer to, then you'll see that the majority of your post belongs in the conspiracy theory forum.

I've close to zero patience for this type of misdirection at this point. The societies I have lived in have suffered as a consequence of ignoring the reality to align with some sort of 'hope and a prayer' narrative such as what happened in the US with Trump and the UK with Brexit, and worldwide with Covid.

Jizique

Interesting to see UK onshore wind generation down 44% in Q2 with offshore down 15%. This is notwithstanding the continued rollout of offshore.

Also, two-thirds of the electricity reduction in Europe in 2022 was due to deindustrialisation, which isn't really what we want. Shifting production elsewhere in the world does nothing for emissions or Europe's economy.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120868240#Comment_120868240

Yes, Eirgrid are definitely going to deliver on those plans. Let's take a look at the previous ATR (Associated Transmission Reinforcement) report from 2012 and an update from last 2021 (a whole 9 years later) on where these projects are currently.

https://www.eirgridgroup.com/site-files/library/EirGrid/2021-Q3-ATR-Status-Update

Anyone that tells you anything in the 2030 plans is possible is a liar. The ATR report update shows we probably won't get there by 2040 even if everything goes well.

deholleboom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120869646#Comment_120869646

Well, the 'conspiracy theory' concept was used by the CIA to halt investigation into Vietnam as i have pointed out and you clearly missed the point entirely. Noam Chomski wrote the book ' manufacturing consent' about it. We are experiencing the same mechanism but it is, ironically, the new left who have been captured this time. And they need the 'far right' label to stick on people and NOT address clear problematic issues. More irony, the actors in climate-ism do not seem to be overly concerned about the environment as such given the impact of solar and wind technologies on the habitat. At the heart lies an anti-human guilt complex and is ultimately self destructive as the ideology hits the reality wall as we witness today. It does not even deal with the consequences of climate change which will be different in every country but instead rides the galloping anti Co2 emission horse over a nearing cliff. These people are not concerned about reality, they simply use anything as ammunition to inflate their ego. It takes a good number of useful and blind idiots to maintain a consensus that will, in time, ultimately fail. I take the enforcing of ever increasing power in the hands of the few stakeholders as indication that even they realize that time is running out hence the sped up implementation of CBDCs, the laws written by the ( unelected) EU commission and so on. And yes, that is an actual conspiracy as they themselves are bragging about it and give full details about their shameful plans. It is on their websites ff sakes!

Green tech subsidies are many times bigger than those for hydro carbons. There is a growing Green (private) market out there. We are all paying for that. Money that won't be going to real people's needs.

More irony: it is clear that the hydro carbon industry has done a lot damage over the decades but never underestimate the benefits. The Greens are determined to do all the bad stuff in the shortest period of time w no clear benefits at all, let alone bring Co2 emissions down. It is stupidity on a whole different scale and on a wide range of levels. But people are confronted w reality and are fighting back. The Greens have overstayed their welcome.

Since you clearly refuse to take up any of my suggestions or points and have only showed blind ignorance and tried to score petty points i will leave it here. I had hoped for at least some intelligent debate but that is clearly not happening. It is thoroughly juvenile.

Over and out..You are hereby put on 'ignore'.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120870292#Comment_120870292

You are still ignoring the fact that the worlds wealthiest industry which has the ear of most media outlets on the planet is supposedly being quietened by people with a fraction of their resources (scientists) or platform (activists).

It's complete and utter nonsense and while you are entitled to express it, no is obliged to accept it.

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120870355#Comment_120870355

The climate change industry is not an artisan cottage industry with a few scientists and activists weaving hand baskets. Climate Change™ is a multi-billion dollar per year behemoth. Billionaires such as Michael Bloomberg, Jeremy Grantham and Sir Christopher Hohn and many others all have investments to match the NGOs they underwrite. Follow the money, middle income consumers are lead to believe they can solve climate change by consuming products marketed to them as "green". Heck, even banks will give you a "green loans". Environmental taxes are the fastest growing tax revenue source for governments. There is a wall of money in climate change, the scientists and NGOs are taking a cut of the action, can you blame them, they have families to feed as well. One skill, Irish political operators are good at is following the money trail and with the EUs green new deal there is no shortage of "green" €€ in green consumerism.

Just like the "Celtic tiger" era, Climate Change™ is just another mania in a long line of booms and busts, Charley McKays book, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds once observed men go mad in herds, and only recover their senses one by one. Just like all booms, there is a misallocation of capital, the mistake is only discovered when they run out of resources, the projects fail and an economic collapse ensues. Sometimes this is confined to an industry sector like telecoms, sometimes like the building boom, the bust takes down the banking system and peoples life savings. Who will socialise the losses from Green mania?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120870572#Comment_120870572

Just like the "Celtic tiger" era, Climate Change™ is just another mania in a long line of booms and busts

This is just another mania

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66242277

https://www.euronews.com/2023/07/18/heatwaves-continue-to-break-temperature-records-across-the-globe

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/17/us/us-heat-warnings-weather.html

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/weather/2023/07/18/us-temperature-records-summer-heat-wave/70425231007/

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120870572#Comment_120870572

Saying there's money in climate change compared to the the oil industry is like saying there's money in Bus Eireann compared to Delta Airlines.

The climate conversation is supported by science. Science has proven that impactful weather events are more and more the outcome of the use of carbon based fuels. Takes some neck to talk about losses from Green mania in the world we currently live in.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120870586#Comment_120870586

It's been clear this has been on the cards for a long time.

Hopefully it'll spur on further global impetus to roll out solutions to address the issues at hand before it gets worse and worse.

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120870586#Comment_120870586

You're confusing weather with climate there.

Can someone more knowledgeable tell me the difference in predicting the weather and predicting the climate? Weather forecasting is inaccurate beyond a few days, I'm skeptical then that climate forecasting is any better

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120870638#Comment_120870638

The green industry is`nt exactly a paper and string job. There is serious money involved and where serious money is involved serious profits to be made. Don`t fool yourself, these private companies are not behind this out of the goodness of their hearts.

Even looking at here, a population of 5 million and the eye watering projected costs, state guaranteed and now a further guarantee that these private companies will be paid for what they generate even if we do not use it, show this is big business, not some green cotage industry. The marginal pricing policy then kicks in to put a cheery on top.

A few economies were not slow in getting into the game either. China for one who supplies a lot of this green tech, and who are predicted to further add to that, are doing nicely while not particularly worried about the energy sources they are using to produce it.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120870870#Comment_120870870

Its Bus Eireann to Delta Airways, at best, when compared with Oil Industry players.

It's laughable so many of you on here are ignoring that reality.

A question for you, when you talk about eye watering projected costs? What do you think the cost of climate breakdown would be?

deholleboom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120870667#Comment_120870667

The difference is that weather forecasts take the proper approach by considering the non linearity of a complex system into account and the influence of variables on predictability with an increasing degree of uncertainty the more time goes by ( a widening error margin).

The IPCC however, at least the ones compiling the rapport and the summery for policy makers are claiming a high level of certainty derived from linear models that run to hot ( even the lowest) compared to measured data. Instead of acknowledging their error they manipulate the data to make it seem they agree w the models. Ie, they are cooking the books.

Weather forecaster are cautious because their error is revealed quite quickly. The IPCC is run by big money and power. They also have most of the media on their side. It is a political organisation that went from an initial investigational program into full blown manipulation where dissenters are punished.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120871041#Comment_120871041

If its all a conspiracy then it looks like its a conspiracy to.....

• clean up the environment
• prevent climate change
• clean up waterways
• protect biodiversity
• and so on

Those bastards!

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120870586#Comment_120870586

Tabloid media in annual Summer is hot shocker. Meanwhile BBC peddles the Climate Change™ narrative with weasel words "Some studies suggest climate change might make blocked patterns more common." Pay attention to use of the words "suggest" and "might", It does not matter the weather conditions, whether too hot, too cold or fierce mild, it's all Climate Change™. Odd that.

political analyst

Many weather stations, which record air temperature, are located in urban areas, where concrete and traffic radiate heat and thus cause these stations to record high air temperatures. Doesn't that fact make climate change appear to be much more serious than it actually is?

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120870995#Comment_120870995

Delta Airlines is valued at €28 Bn. We, a coutry with 5 million of a population have a plan for offshore +hydrogen that nobody can put a price on when asked, where the best estimate is €200 Bn. so do not fool yourself with your Bus Eireann and Delta Arways comparisons. Not only is this big business looking for big profits, it`s big business being guarantee those profits by legislation and pricing mechanisms such as the marginal pricing policy and now a guarantee that they will be paid even if we do not use what they generate.

We have already seen here how those green energy companies are taking advantage of these mechanisms. Advertising that they were providing "100% green electricity to their customers" to attract more customers. Perfectly legal under the relevant E.U. and Irish legislation without either body doing anything about it. It took the ASAI all of ten minutes to show it for the con it was.

The problem I have with greens is that they throw out any old garbage, and like all cults brand anyone who questions the feasbility of anything they favour, their views, or any alternatives is termed a heritic. Biomass has been one of their early ideas on saving the planet where anyone that questioned was shouted down, so a few questions for you.

Do you now view biomass, credited by the EU for providing 60% of the blocs energy, in reality the carbon neutral source greens were telling us ? On "the operation was a success but the patient died" basis, do you belive that this offshore hydrogen plan of €200 Bn., (that will require another large financial input ever 15 -20 years), plus all the on shore and solar costs is a feasible plan for a country with a population of 5 million ?

This 200 billion figure that keeps getting thrown around

• its just a guess by one or two lads here and is based on nothing but back of a matchbox guesstimate. "Best estimate" is not an apt term here
• its not a figure that will be coming out of the govt coffers
• its spending by private companies
• it has as much relevance as how much is spent in the extraction, shipping, refining, shipping and selling of oil

In other words, it doesn't matter one jot as the end cost to the consumer of the power generated is determined at the auction stage.

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120871419#Comment_120871419

This is RAF Conningsby (the weather recording instrumentation is to the left of CY/CY markings), there are standards for weather stations, and this one falls into the class 3 bucket, tolerances according to the WMO may overstate temperatures by 1C. This time last year they were hollering about a 40.3C record in the UK. At the same time the local alarmists here in Ireland were fierce disappointed, the inconvenient Kilkenny record from the 19th century still stands, they dismiss it and are trying to get it scrubbed from the record.

Why does all this matter? Temperature measurements over the last 200 years have shown small overall increases – the trend over this period has been mostly positive, although there have been declines and pauses, the latest one stretching over eight years and counting. Over this period, meteorological operations have tolerated obvious inaccuracies and poor placements, knowing that the figures at least supply broad trends. That all changes, however, when humankind is suddenly driven into a doom-laden frenzy over worries that climate breakdown stalks the entire planet, following a rise of a few parts of a degree centigrade. In order to save the world, humankind is obliged to forgo cheap, efficient fossil fuels and embrace the green-controlled world of Net Zero. In those circumstances, temperature measurements become political tools. They must keep rising to keep populations scared and willing to fall in with unpleasant, de-industrialisation agendas.

That is why the 40°C ‘records’ of last summer were important. That is why there is an increasing disconnect between frequently adjusted surface records and accurate measurements made by satellites. That is why the BBC “debunks” the “common myth” that tarmac and concrete have a significant effect on nearby temperature measurements. source

To get away from urban heat island bias you need to look at stations like Valentia observatory (see image) which have a long record and are still located in a rural setting, with very little re-location from the original measurement station siting. The measurements from these stations get "homogenised" when fed into datasets like NASS GISS that used in modeling. If you take the linear trend from hen they started recording there is a warming trend, however that does not tell you the behaviour over 30 year intervals and why there is a dip around the 1960s.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120871518#Comment_120871518

You're still refusing to ignore the reality.

Oil has the money, the motivation and the platform to disprove all those who say that their industry is a problem for the climate. Like no other industry could defend itself to the same degree should they needed to.

Yet they've failed to halt the growing public perception to this effect.

Reality is staring you in the face and yet you, and others, are putting your efforts in to defeating people who want a safe planet for you and your descendants.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120871651#Comment_120871651

The reality is that the big money nowadays is in green energy aided by, (in our neck of the woods), E.U. legislation, pricing mechanisms and guarantees of payment for their product even if we do not use it. The private businesses targeting this money are not wearing envoronmentally friendly homespun yarn suits.

If their is one public perception it`s the one that is questioning how we have one of the most expensive electricity in the E.U. when they are being told that this green energy can be produced so cheaply, and asking where is this money going while they are paying ever higher carbon taxes.

I`m not putting any effort whatsoever into defeating anyone. I`m simply pointing out the cult like behaviour of those that accuse people of that, doing exactly that when it comes to anyone even questioning any of their dogma, how these green solutions have worked out in reality (biomass, Guarantees of Origin etc.) or the feasibilty of their proposals

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120871651#Comment_120871651

Oil doesn't really have the money - if you look at the performance of the European oil sector relative to the European market index, the sector (basically Shell, BP, Total and ENI) has been a massive underperformer over the last decade; look at oil v luxury over a decade, that is where the money is, and it isn't oil. This is partly due to ESG, where clients have been forced out of high dividend paying oil names and into "growth" stocks at silly valuations like Orsted, which don't pay more than a nominal divi.

Complete and utter madness.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120871847#Comment_120871847

Massive underperformer?

https://news.sky.com/story/shell-announces-record-annual-profits-of-32-2bn-12801159

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120871986#Comment_120871986

Look at the share price relative to LVMH

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120871986#Comment_120871986

Shell share price is down 12% absolute terms over last 5 years - massive underperformer

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120871635#Comment_120871635

Do you know how much these projects will cost? And what would the annual cost be to maintain the infrastructure?

Whether it's private or public, the tax payer or the consumer is on the hook. And I'd say most here are in both camps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120872130#Comment_120872130

Wait, did you just look at the share price today versus the share price exactly 5 years ago and subtract and say 12% and call it a massive underperformer

2655.50-2336.50 = 319 (12%)

Ha, you did. Watch out wall st

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120872171#Comment_120872171

These companies would typically look for (at least) a 10% return on investment, so €200bn spend means profit of €20bn annually. There is no way the companies are investing these amounts in unproven tech without a govt backstop, and that is my big issue - this is the biggest grift I have ever seen, and the corporates are laughing at the taxpayer.

It was super interesting to see both Iberdrola and Orsted pulling out of offshore projects in Massachusetts and Rhode Island respectively because they couldn't make their expected return - this would never happen in Ireland where the govt have invested so much in "the Saudi Arabia" of wind BS that they would pay whatever is asked in subsidies.

And making it worse, they gaslight the public that suppliers will abandon their existing supply chains to "create 50k jobs" in the Shannon estuary.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120872171#Comment_120872171

Do you know how much these projects will cost? And what would the annual cost be to maintain the infrastructure?

Nope, unlike others I don't make up numbers and then demand others to justify them, for example, the 200 bil number made up by some lads here.

I've no idea if its too low or too high of a figure but I do know it has no grounding in actual data.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120871635#Comment_120871635

By analogy to the airline industry

Jet engines wear out and have to be replaced. But you can keep the rest of the airliner. And even when you have to replace the airliner you can still keep using the airports.

The €200Bn figure is only gotten by building completely new airports and replacing all the aircraft every 20 years even if the engines aren't worn out.

After 28 years (not 20) in Scotland they dismantled (not destroyed) 26 turbines and are replacing them with 14 new turbines. Which will deliver five times as much power from the same windfarm. The main reason for not reusing these old turbines is that they only have a tenth the output of current ones.