"Green" policies are destroying this country

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120912236#Comment_120912236

This rail plan has nothing to do with any "obsession" with Eamon Ryan or the Green Party.

Both reports for rail and energy security were commissioned by Ryan`s Dept. It`s a matter of record on the remit given on the energy report that a land based LNG terminal was not to be considered. And no, a LNG land based terminal has not been blocked by the other two parties in government. They have said they will abide by whatever decision ABP come too on the application for planning by a private companies to build a land based LNG terminal. Ryan in contrast was mouthing off before the last review by ABP attempting to put pressure on ABP to rule as he wished.

Looking at this rail report, can you seriously see it as anything other than a Green Party wish list, and I`m still waiting for you to make any kind of a coherent financial or benificial reason for spending €3.5 Bn on a Letterkenny to Derry rail link ?

I would not rate Varadkar as one of the sharpest knives in the drawer, but even he saw the insanity of proposing a spend of €36 Bn on rail, and in fairness to the authors of the report, so did they when pointing out it would result in no discernible difference in the transportation of freight or the public.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120911968#Comment_120911968

I'm all for future proofing but what do you design these upgrades against? There's no coherent plan to have renewables clustered around existing large nodes on the network. Look at the state of all these windfarms scattered all around the country. There is no plan to future proof towards, that's the reality of the situation. Asking Eirgrid to upgrade and future proof the grid for something they have little to no control over is daft.

What happens if we need to run Moneypoint and the renewables connected there at the same time? There's a thermal limit on the HV lines so doing both would probably be a non runner.

We can continue to use wind and solar to reduce the run time on thermal plants BUT we have to be willing to keep paying for ever more expensive electricity and Eamo and Co need to be upfront about it. There's no cheap reliable electricity from wind/solar utopia.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120912009#Comment_120912009

Well, point 1 has been completely thrown to the wayside in the rich for NetZero. It's only when large scale outages start to happen will the majority of people wake up. When it's inevitably falls over they'll blame Russia or Data Centres or say "see, we told you there was a climate emergency".

deholleboom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120912574#Comment_120912574

Spot on. They will welcome any disruption and typecast this as an indication of a problem that they created in the first place but dump it on Climate Change and every enemy tied to hydro carbons. Like the bolsjewiks they will try to take power by creating more mayhem and further disruption. But unlike the reds they won't have the heart for cold blooded murder as their ideas have no flesh and they walk on rubber legs. One would hope that the disruption caused by another decade of green policies and top down comply rules does not result in real system failures for behind every soft revolutionary stands a fascist psychopath ruler just ready to violently enforce the rules no doubt necessary to kill the 'enemy', whatever or whomever that may be.

But i doubt that dystopia will happen. It would make a great film though. Do you think i could get funding for that?😆

electricus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120912548#Comment_120912548

Obviously the system needs to be designed/ updated to meet requirements, we’re not going to do that here, but it’s a problem which can be solved.

On one hand I’m being told wind power and solar are worthless then on the other you’re worried that they could overload the grid. There’s also the assumption that we will always have all the gas we need at a low price.

I don’t know who’s right and who’s wrong but there is a lot at stake, too much to bet that everything will be ok based on the evidence.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120912846#Comment_120912846

Hydro is tapped out here, solar has an annual yield of around 11% of installed capacity, less than that in the long dark Autumn and Winter days and nights,, so what is being proposed here is basically a grid solely reliant on wind power.

Is putting all your eggs in one basket a safe bet ?

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120912393#Comment_120912393

The document was done by the Dept of Transport. I already told you why we should invest in rail in ireland. We have an extensive road network connecting ireland and now need a rail system. In 100 years when someone can get a train from Dublin to Donegal they won’t care how much it cost

Varadkar was one of the main people who made the decision to put the children’s hospital in vincents, even worse when you think he lives beside and is the TD for the area it should be installed in. So using him as a reference doesn’t work in your favour

You are an excellent example of the problem in ireland, people can’t see past a car and even when public transport is what is critical and best thing for ireland they would argue against it. That’s why we have such a poor public transport system in ireland . Thankfully the tide is turning and the “build the road” politics is going

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913095#Comment_120913095

would you be able to share how you got the 11% for solar please? Would be interesting to see

roosterman71

@ZookeeperDub yer right of course, and building/opening more rail is of course a good thing, in places where there is a proven need. Spending €3.5b (which isn't what it would cost) on a rail line between Letterkenny and Derry is absolute nonsense. That's even higher than the aforementioned shitshow that is the new childrens hospital. Letterkenny/Derry is 35km by road, 30 minute drive. Spending that on public transport for people in and out of the big urban centers should be the priority. Like that Navan line for starters

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913236#Comment_120913236

At it's peak during June this year they were blowing the trumpet saying how wonderful it is. Now, we have about 16 hours of daylight in June and even then it maxed out at 10% of the load for a couple of hours during the day. Considering it's pretty much useless from September to March, even the 11% is generous.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913236#Comment_120913236

It`s from an Energy Ireland report 25 Nov 2019. It may have gone a small bit higher since, but I have not seen anything stating it has.

That 11% is the percentage of installed capacity over a year, in Those long dark Autumn and Winter days it is going to be much less.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120912846#Comment_120912846

That's what I'm saying though. It's not just us here who don't know, nobody does. Look at the auctions for offshore sites recently, it certainly wasn't based on strong grid connection points. Eirgrid, quite literally have no idea where all these new sites are going to be deployed because they haven't been awarded yet and planning is but a pipe dream.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913218#Comment_120913218

What minister does the Dept of Transport report to?

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913218#Comment_120913218

I don`t see what your point is on the report being done by the Dept of Transport unless their was a cabinet reshuffle that I missed and Ryan is no longer Minister for Transport.

Nobody is going to take a train from Letterkenny to Dublin via Derry. Dublin to Derry by train takes 5.5 hours, so it would take 6 hours from Letterkenny, changing trains in Belfast.

By road from Letterkenny to Sligo takes 1.5 hours. Train from Sligo to Dublin takes 3 hours. a 4.5 hour journey rather than a 6 hour one. 3/4 of the time it would take by train from Letterkenny. How in the name of heaven does that justify a €3.5 Bn spend on a rail link between Letterkenny and Dublin ?

For freight it makes less sense if that is even possible.

I did say that I would not look on Varadkar as the sharpest knife in the drawer, but he did not make up the figures of 90% of freight and 94% of those travelling would still be doing so by road after a spend of €36 Bn on rail. Those percentages came from the authors of the report, who in fairness to them, if they had not been lumped with a wishlist to start with, would most likely made a decent fist of identifying where rail connectivity could be improved while giving value for money invested.

Just a btw and an aside, but you might consider dropping the "people like you" rhetoric. It is a bit bombastic using it in reference to people who you are asking for data and where you cannot answer questions to support what you are advocating.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913255#Comment_120913255

These are numbers from 2013, now I know building costs have increased but no chance they have that much.

A rail link between Londonderry and Letterkenny would cost £242m; £506m to Donegal town and £924m to Sligo.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913539#Comment_120913539

The report was done by Dept of Transport. It doesn't matter which TD the party is from who is the Minister.

The numbers for investing in rail are really irrelevant at this stage. Only the number which would be contracted at. Ask for a budget number and nobody goes low. Go high

I never said "people like you". Ireland is famous for the "build a road politics" with people not able to see past roads and cars. I don't agree with the rubbish fired up on news about climate change but we need a public transport system.

Future generations are demanding that public transport system and that is great, because Ireland needs it. If people want to sit in cars, thats perfectly ok because we have an extensive road system already built.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913536#Comment_120913536

The Dept of Transport reports to the Taoiseach office. Like all Dept heads.

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913308#Comment_120913308

Do you have the numbers behind this 10% or 11%?

ZookeeperDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913331#Comment_120913331

2019? 4 years ago. Did Ireland even have a solar farm in 2019? how much capacity did it have? the grant was only up and running with very little uptake at the start

Anything more recent?

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913986#Comment_120913986

Agh ffs. the Department of Transport reports to the Minister for Transport who commissioned the report and who gave them the remit as to what he wishes it to cover. The Minister of Transport then brings the report to cabinet.

We are living in a democracy ,not a dictatorship where An Taiseach can dictate whatever takes his fancy

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913997#Comment_120913997

Do you actually know what a capacity factor is ?

It`s the percentage of the installed capacity delivered over a period of time, usually a year. It`s not based on just one solar panel,one windmill,one gas fired generator or any other form of generator based on a single generator.

You asked where did I get the 11% from and I told you. It is from Energy Ireland where I very much doub itt was based on one dodgy solar panel, but if that is what you believe then contact them and ask them.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913971#Comment_120913971

I didn`t come up with the €3.5 Bn for a Letterkenny to Dery rail link. That was the cost the authors of this Dept of Transport report placed on it. A report that you favour being implemented, so if you have a problem with the cost then ask the authors of the report.

LOL when has an Irish government department ever gone high on an estimate of costs ?

The "numbers are realy irrelevant" is absolute nonsense. Money doesn`t grow on trees, and neither can you print it to our hearts content. The relevant numbers are those that spending €36 Billion, even from the people that wrote this report that you favor being implemented, are that after spending the cost of at least 18 Children Hospitals, it would make no discernible difference to the volume of freight or passengers numbers travelling by road

deholleboom

I just got back from a gig. On the way to the gig i noticed quite an extensive stretch of roadworks at which all of the greenery was removed even quite a bit away from the road, id say 4 to 5 meters. The stems of the trees were still showing. I stopped counting around 16. Then i noticed a sign. It said they were building a 'green way'. Oh the irony..! Sort of a trees for bikes exchange mechanism..

electricus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913455#Comment_120913455

I agree 100%, our current ‘plans’ are mostly based on bullsh1t, but that doesn’t mean that wind and solar can’t be part of a solution. Obviously for that to work we need a coherent plans and a grid designed to meet our future requirements. I don’t give a dhit about party politics.

electricus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120913095#Comment_120913095

I don’t think so, we should have backup for wind snd solar power, grid storage, gas, and also European grid connections.

That could work as part of a properly designed system, I not suggesting some bullsh1t plan.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120914336#Comment_120914336

Fair enough. I`m of the same opinion, but I would not like to see an over dependence on European grid connections based on the hope that what we may need will be available when or if we need it

Ramasun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120564087#Comment_120564087

Prime farmland here produces high quality food at a price no one will pay, so it has to be subsidised. It also pollutes the local environment and degrades biodiversity.

A lot of this produce is exported, as is often highlighted by Glanbia and Kerry Group, so the solar panels are of more actual benefit to people in Ireland.

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120912393#Comment_120912393

Excellent post Charlie14.

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120912236#Comment_120912236

This obsession is self inflicted imho. Ryan is the one with obsession. His answer to every problem is tax more.

Back in 2009, I listened to Ryan’s predecessor about diesel being the future and was best for the environment. Now? Driving a diesel is public enemy #1.

For me, the sooner him and his excuse of a political party are confined to history books the better. The greens are nothing but bullshi**ers to further their cause imho.

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120914317#Comment_120914317

There was a time when there were railway routes all over this country. Abandoned for years. But the "greens" in their wisdom have turned them into

"greenways" for cyclists and walkers. Now they want to build new railway routes. You couldn't make it up.

namloc1980

Just on Letterkenny line cost, the costing for Letterkenny to Derry is €200-300m. Derry to Portadown is c.€2.8-3.4bn. In theory it would be the UK government stumping up for the Portadown to Derry section. In reality none of it is going to built anyway.