"Green" policies are destroying this country

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120962124#Comment_120962124

Where did you get this from?

There is absolutely no reason to believe that a typical ICE vehicle can last 2 times longer than a typical BEV

If anything, it's the opposite as modern ICE vehicles are usually also Hybrids to meet emissions regulations, and so they have double the mechanical and electronic failure points of either a pure ICE or BEV

In Ireland, the vast majority of cars that get scrapped each year are between 10 and 16 years old with a median point of 13 years life cycle.

The available evidence we have from the millions of BEVs on the road now, is that most BEVs will still have at least 80% of their original battery capacity by the time they're 10-12 years old. (The exception being the Nissan Leaf which does not have good thermal management.)

For Scrapping cars, the main reasons they get scrapped are because the value of the car is lower than the cost of keeping it on the road/repairing damage/insuring and running it

1. Emissions - Older and poorly maintained vehicles failing emissions tests
2. Excessive repair bills - Mostly due to engine, gearbox drivetrain and exhaust components
3. Fuel efficiency is too low compared to newer vehicles (fuel efficiency also decreases with older as gaskets and seals start to go and these can be hella expensive to replace, so many owners just let them degrade)
4. Bodywork issues (rust, and panel damage driving down the value of the car
5. Expensive service items that tend to go all around the same time costing more than the value of the car, timing belts, DPF, Dual Mass Flywheel, rocker cover gaskets, head gaskets, piston rings, clutches etc
6. Electronic issues with (often with engine management control units)

In a BEV, there is a battery, there is one or more electric motors, and a software system to control everything (which can often be maintained and updated using OTA updates)

Everything else is shared with an ICE car so is agnostic to whether it's a BEV or ICE car (except that with BEV engines having platforms specifically engineered to have everything electronically controlled, the parts should be easier to access to repair and replace rather than having to take an entire engine out to replace a part that takes 2 minutes to swap out (this makes up much of the cost of maintaining ICE cars)

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963202#Comment_120963202

There's not many EVs around because the first mass market EV was sold in 2011, the Nissan Leaf. BEVs are starting to age down to the 'bangernomics' side of car ownership but it will still take a few years before there are enough BEVs with decent range that can replace an ICE car in a single car family coming on sale for 2-5k on the used market

I currently drive a 17 year old ICE car that is driving fine, the body, the suspension, the steering, the interior, all the electronics, everything works fine. But the engine is probably going to be the reason why I end up sending it for scrap. There are oil leaks in the engine that would cost thousands to repair.

I have a 16 year old volvo sitting out the back of my house that hasn't driven in 2 years because the turbo got 'end float' that the garage said would cost 2k to fix, and there is also a niggle in the clutch and it was leaking fuel from somewhere. The car itself, all of the suspension, bodywork, interior, brakes, lights etc, all perfect. but the engine would have cost more than the value of the car to replace so It's more or less worthless

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963320#Comment_120963320

You can buy a new Volkswagen Up, a small city car in competition with the Fabia for under 24k

Volkswagen are a more premium brand than Skoda

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/volkswagen-e-up-style-32kwh-82hp-auto/34816930

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963886#Comment_120963886

It would be nice if you could provide the link to these sources instead of just screenshots of them

I can see Roger Pielke Junior's name mentioned in the graphs. He's not a particularly credible source, and if it;s just some graphs he has made and aren't taken from any peer reviewed paper, then I would not consider this anywhere near enough to discount the evidence that we have all seen with our own eyes the past few years.

deholleboom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120963202#Comment_120963202

The trouble is that the manufacturers really started to cut corners after the financial crisis of 2008, notably in all the small stuff, plastics, electronics, sensors, chips. You would think these things would individually all be easily replaced but this does not seem so straightforward. Talk to any mechanic and he will tell you. The parts are crap. The ECU readouts go faulty, the parameters set too narrow. Your car wont start or goes into limp mode. No quick fixes. Some cars under 5 years old displaying continious issues. It is the reason i am now driving a 2007 Suzuki Swift w low mileage..

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964937#Comment_120964937

Earlier in the week I was talking to my parents about the 2008 Ford Focus they still have. Bodywork could do with (no pun intended) work and at the very least the interior needs a good clean, but with only about 50,000 on the clock the engine and transmission is still top-notch. Scrapping it would be madness..

ps200306

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965013#Comment_120965013

a) That car looks tiny and hideous. Definitely not the equivalent cabin of a Fabia.

b) It's on special offer. The normal list price starts at 30k.

c) I have a large 5-door family saloon with automatic transmission that cost less than that new five years ago.

d) The claimed range is 253km but with a 32kWh battery there's no way that's real. In adverse conditions it would be more like 120km, or 95 miles in old money. That would barely do my night time run to the garage to buy a packet of crisps, which I do a couple of times a week just to burn fuel in honour of Eamon Ryan.

ps200306

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120965059#Comment_120965059

I can see Roger Pielke Junior's name mentioned in the graphs. He's not a particularly credible source

Pielke annoys a lot of greenies alright. Their problem is he's a leftwing tenured professor who wholeheartedly believes in climate change and the need to decarbonise. Not someone who is easily written off as a climate denier. His "sin" is that he calls out climate alarmists for their untruths and exaggerated claims and argues for integrity in science. So he is targetted with vague slurs like "not a particularly credible source".

deholleboom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120968070#Comment_120968070

A 'credible' source is a person or institution that agrees with my own views. That is basically what goes on here. It is a disgrace that the scientific method has been surpressed and politicized to push down dissent and enforce consensus which in itself is unscientific. A fearful public will feel the need for 'strong' leadership and compliance enforcement. Therefor we need to be in a perpetual emergency. We saw it during Covid and we see it in the Ukrainian and climate 'debate'.

It jump started when Trump decided to run f president.

It is ironic to see the change from say the Iraq war and the Snowden revelations w huge support f him by the media and against the authorities, to the almost absolute and one sided approach towards Trump, Covid and now Ukraine and climate change. You dont even need to have an opinion either way to trace the absolutism involved. That is scary. Look what they are doing w the 'reporting' of the weather and the automatic linkage w climate change.

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120968379#Comment_120968379

Science like journalism has reward for obedience to dogma. I keep following "the science", however, it keeps leading me back to "the money"!

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120968070#Comment_120968070

I asked to see the source of the graphs. It's customary to provide a link, not just screenshots.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120968379#Comment_120968379

A credible source is one that has a reputation for honesty and integrity that adheres to professional standards of quality control

A much less credible source is a primary source with a history of distorting evidence or a secondary source that is routinely repeating misinformation without checking it's veracity

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120968431#Comment_120968431

The money spewed across the blogsphere from sources directly funded by fossil fuel industry. Follow that money for a change

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120959837#Comment_120959837

They appear to be more susceptible to spontaneous combustion and are banned from certain ferry routes as a result.

Also, if the electricity used to charge them is primarily gas with some coal and oil in the mix, are they that much greener? It's all fine if the wind is blowing or the sun is shining. Plus there's the additional distribution grid investment required if multiple EVs turn up to be fed from the same transformers.

bluedex

https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/08/11/valencia-sets-new-heat-record-during-third-spanish-heatwave-of-the-summer

"What is causing the heatwaves?

Scientists say the increase in heatwaves, as well as their increasing duration and intensity, is due to climate change."

OMG I've just seen the blatant lies first hand. I'm in Valencia right now. It was 32 degrees yesterday, 31 degrees earlier today and 29 right now. It's fine, and perfectly normal. Very pleasant actually.

Unbelievable.

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120968454#Comment_120968454

The monolith of climate smear-mongering

But that is not what InfluenceMap detected.

For instance, the report estimated $200 million spent on ‘climate lobbying’. But this is a figure that includes lobbying that is both supportive of and opposed to ‘climate related policy’, a guesstimated proportion of which is then counted as ‘denial’. It doesn’t even really detect ‘lobbying to control, delay or block binding climate policy’. It just guesses

The real reason people don't believe you has nothing to do with big oil (or David Koch, may he rest in peace), you may cause to look in the mirror.

It is the routine of climate trolls of all kinds to assume that mere money is sufficient to have caused the failure of the policy agenda. In fact, they generally don’t even need the estimate to reproduce the conspiracy theory. It is axiomatic, on the green view, that the failure of the policy agenda is the consequence of those that criticise it. But work such as InfluenceMap’s is entirely performative. It gives the impression of an investigation. But in reality it’s more ritual than research, that seemingly makes real one of green ideology’s major articles of faith: its demonology.

After all, as we have already seen it is greens that are their own worst enemy. It was green characteristic intransigence and wholly undue arrogance that changed my mind, not carefully-constructed ‘playbooks’, psychological techniques, ‘misinformation’, put out by think tanks, industry associations, or PR machines.

Years ago, it was an interview between Pat Kenny and Ian Plimer with John Gibbons bought in for "balance", that set me off on this path, not big oil. RTE only like "balance" when they've someone on they disagree with, like a "scientist" or such nonsense like that. Sometimes all it takes is go fishing and let their projections of doom expire.

“If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by.”

― Sun Tzu

The switch to EV's has already passed the point of no return and the annual %'s are only going to keep going up.

The transition is further helped with the oil markets and fossil fuel taxes being what they are

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/diesel-prices-rise-by-20c-a-litre-and-more-excise-duty-hikes-are-on-the-way/a151771629.html

Nice to see the investment in public transport continuing

https://www.newstalk.com/news/drogheda-dart-trains-will-be-battery-electric-powered-by-2025-1495909

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974588#Comment_120974588

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974599#Comment_120974599

Meanwhile, the problem of securing reliable electricity generation will not go away because politicians and their religious adherents engage in magic thinking, and again this year, according to the Lorcan Allan in the Sunday business Post, "ESB warns emergency power generation may not be ready in time for winter"

The state’s creaking energy system has been put under increasing strain over recent years due to the growth in the number of data centres, the wider electrification of the economy, the retirement of two peat-fired power stations in the midlands over recent years and a weak pipeline of new power plants.

The Business Post first revealed in 2021 that the emerging power supply gap had forced the Commission for Regulation of Utilities (CRU) and Eirgrid to seek emergency power generators from abroad to be installed from winter 2021 for a number of years, as Ireland would not have enough power from its existing fleet of power plants to meet rising demand. source

All that inflation of the money supply, has been making its way into everyday prices and combined with an energy supply crisis, is causing industrial production to fall, like Germany’s Economic Woes Intensify As Production Slumps “Much More Than Expected”. How can this be happening? I was assured by "following the science", that taking out nuclear, coal and natural gas generation and replacing it with wind and solar would reduce electricity costs as wind and solar are the cheapest ways to generate electricity. Or can it be that countries with "green policies" are creating an internal environment hostile to manufacturing and outsourcing their emissions, along with the associated jobs, to countries more open to emissions and less interested in climate change.

Confronted by high energy costs emerging from two decades of the green policy agenda, many German firms are failing. A short list: Eisenwerk Erla, a firm in the metallurgy sector, filed for bankruptcy after more than 600 years of existence; Teusser Mineralbrunnen Karl Rössle GmbH, a mineral water manufacturer/bottler, also went bankrupt after 130 years in operation; Alfred Clouth Lackfabrik GmbH, a wood products firm founded in 1917, is now insolvent. source

roosterman71

I read a good article in the IFJ yesterday where it had a graph on wind generation and the amount of electricity required. Since 2020, we haven't produced more wind power - it's been pretty static. Yet our demand for power continues to grow. There was a line in it about a ship on it's way to us from Columbia with 180,000t of coal for Moneypoint. But the best part of the article was the talk of luck. Building wind and solar and whatnot is fine, and welcome, but it is reliant on luck. We can't predict wind blowing or sun shining. July set a record for wind due to pure luck the weather was shite. It's like fishing. you throw your line out and hope to catch something. Renewables are like that.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975349#Comment_120975349

There's also the growing concern that OSW has on marine life. Parts of the US east coast are starting to see a lot more whale deaths and there are links now with the building and operation of OSW being a root cause.

roosterman71

I don't recall this being posted here back in January, and apologies if it was.

But since COP28 is on the way soon, in that haven for fossil fuels - the UAE, the chairman is non other than the head of one of the worlds biggest oil and gas companies

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-64240206

I'll say this now - the outcome of this COP nonsense this year will be deflected away from fossil fuels and I bet any money agriculture is going to be painted as the villain yet again

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120970065#Comment_120970065

Jesus christ.

The report said the temperature record was broken on the 10th of August. You come on here saying 'It wasn't that hot on the 11th of August, therefore it's 'blatant lies'

Are you the one who is telling 'blatant lies' or are you just so blind to your ideology that you can't comprehend that there is different weather on different days

https://www.accuweather.com/en/es/valencia/310683/august-weather/310683

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120971681#Comment_120971681

Ben Pile, the right wing racist trump supporting conspiracy theorist is your version of a 'credible source'

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120974995#Comment_120974995

Last winter and the winter before people like you were warning about 'blackouts' due to electricity shortages

They didn't happen.

Meanwhile scientists have warned that without reducing CO2 emissions, the ice caps will continue to melt and extreme temperature events will accelerate

Why do you keep siding with the people who have a track record of being wrong about almost everything?

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975349#Comment_120975349

You said this as July was a record month for wind generation in Ireland with 33% of Ireland's electricity generated so far this year coming from wind.

This is all only from Onshore wind (and a tiny amount from the Arklow bank) The increases in wind generation is being eaten up by increases in demand as data centres come online faster than we can build generation capacity to service them.

Our Offshore wind infrastructure will begin coming online around 2028, but if we can get these fast tracked, it would be a huge benefit

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975869#Comment_120975869

There are always stories about renewable infrastructure killing birds or whales or whatever, and it's almost always lies and propaganda from the usual suspects trying to delay and disrupt anything that will harm Oil and gas interests

There is no evidence that offshore wind is having any negative impact on whales

https://www.energy.gov/articles/addressing-misinformation-offshore-wind-farms-and-recent-whale-mortalities#:~:text=At%20this%20point%2C%20the%20Bureau,wind%20development%2Drelated%20site%20characterization

It's much more likely related to shipping, plastics, changes to their environment related to climate change and the impacts on their food supply.

Meanwhile the greed fuelled negligence that led to the Deepwater Horizon exploding spewing 500 million litres of crude oil into the gulf of Mexico and the place still hasn't recovered 11 years later, Ixtoc 1 spilt a similar amount in the 70s, the Persian gulf was devastated with 1.5 billion litres of Oil spilt as part of the first gulf war...

We could all wake up on any morning to the news of another Oil platform or tanker disaster that will devastate entire eco systems taking decades and many billions of euros to clean up.

https://www.sciencealert.com/ten-years-after-the-deepwater-horizon-catastrophe-oil-residue-remains

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120975879#Comment_120975879

And the 🤡🤡🤡🤡s in here will still try to claim that it's the environmentalists who have the money and power to dictate policy on climate change

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976044#Comment_120976044

THe OP was correct in that wind generation was a matter of luck, but he was incorrect in that it has remained static. It is not keven keeping pace with demand.

2020 42% of our electricity came from renewables. 2021 that fell to 36% and in 2022 it fell again to 34%.

The Irish greens solution. Pile on more of the same with offshore wind hoping that along with hydrogen, (that nobody even knows if it will work to scale or how it would be distributed), will provide 100% reliable electricity on demand that they cannot even give a cost for.

It`s all eggs in one basket lunacy.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976109#Comment_120976109

Both things can be true. It's not like we haven't seen large scale underwater human activities have a detrimental effect on whales before.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/16/left-stranded-us-military-sonar-linked-to-whale-beachings-in-pacific-say-scientists

It's going to take time to understand the impact of these OSW farms and categorically stating it doesn't mean the square root of fook all IMO.

We should be doing a much better job of cleaning up our oceans and those oil spills are a disgrace. You'll hear no arguments from me that says otherwise.