"Green" policies are destroying this country

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996820#Comment_120996820

More green rhetoric..if it doesnt fit with ideal its a mcmansion, whatever that is

Is this the biggest solar farm in the works around the country? 200,000sqm of panels

https://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/ecolive/1275827/plans-for-massive-new-solar-farm-in-kilkenny.html

roosterman71

Things are gone to pot. That solar farm is on some of the countries finest land. Shame to see it under panels. Plenty of marginal land much more suitable. i ranted about this before. Lets move on. Eamon trying to put his hand in the pockets of people again pissed me off too. And worse to have it linked to biomass which is a joke being regarded as "green". And then this morning I see raw sewage being pumped into a river in Dublin because they lost power and couldn't pump it to Sutton. And what will happen them for that pollution - not a thing. Joke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006306#Comment_121006306

I guess it's up to the landowners what they use it for

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121006484#Comment_121006484

Well yeah. I'll remember that if and when I'm told to rewet some of mine.

pauly58

Cabbage head & his bunch of muppets must be the worst green party in Europe, ban it or tax it seems to be the mantra. Nothing like encouraging the planting of thousands of broad leaf trees, water storage for all new houses with underground tanks., There are lots of schemes that could be put in but no carbon tax will cure everything.

How such a minority party with such a small share of the vote can be in such a position of power is hardly democratic, propping up FFG I suppose. Their usual defender on here is so blinkered he's on my very small ignore list.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121007104#Comment_121007104

I wouldn't hold my breath on things changing if the GP are voted out in the next election. In a recent example, PBP welcomed the abandoning of plans for an additional gas power plant (260MW) at Tynagh

https://www.galwaydaily.com/news/pbp-galway-welcomes-cancellation-of-plans-for-tynagh-gas-plant/

Heck even SF have been trying to kill off the LNG terminal themselves

https://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/59462

https://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/55059

While the SD's are pretty much 1:1 in terms of GP environmental policies

Besides, regardless of who gets elected, all parties, bar none, approved the current climate action plans and goals. The only votes against it were from some of the culchie thicko TD's

roosterman71

And whatever party gets elected can dial down those goals.

BTW, one of those SF links is from 2021. Another from 2019. I don't know but something tells me things have gone to total shite in the last 18 months and those opinions may have changed since being written.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005602#Comment_121005602

So not only are we expected to play along with the con that the E.U. 60% of so called clean energy from biomass, (including our own Edendery power plant), does not result in more CO2 emissions than even coal, this muppet now wants us to pretend that biogas is somehow also carbon neutral while using a coersive tax to force us to use it.

Beats me how anyone at this stage can believe this lunatic cult gives a rats about emissions other than them having some misty eyed idea that we should all go back to living in the Midlde Ages.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121007735#Comment_121007735

And whatever party gets elected can dial down those goals.

The plans can be modified only so long as they still align with meeting the goals. Any modifications which will result in a worse outcome will be struck down by the courts.

Ireland was one of the first govt's to be told to go back to the drawing board by the courts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_Case_Ireland

Just to note the Supreme Court decision was a unanimous decision against the govt.

Also, while the few shouty folks on this thread may make you think otherwise, support for Ireland to continue addressing its emissions is extremely high among the electorate which means any moves to backpedal would be very unpopular

https://www.epa.ie/our-services/monitoring--assessment/climate-change/climate-opinion-maps/

Just to note, there is already murmurings of another climate case being taken against the govt due to the current set of plans not going far enough to reach the targets (in particular the agri sector targets). I expect a decision on that after the 2024 CAP is released as that will give a clearer indication of how seriously its being tackled

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121007685#Comment_121007685

PBP are basically another fringe party that are looking to appeal to GP supporters in Dublin to vote from them rather than the GP.

When it comes to SF they also have some skin in that game as they believe last GE the GP picked up seats that SF believe would have been theirs had they ran more candidates. I would be more inclined to listen to the CRU, Eirgrid and the report commisioned and paid for by Ryan that identified the need for LNG for energy security than parties seeking to increase their numbers.

The SD`s I would not place much trust in what they say based on their recent past. Their co-founder Roisin Shortall spent her time pushing Slaintecare during the previous government term, but when it came to forming a government where she would have had the position of Health Minister they ran a mile.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121007892#Comment_121007892

Pity the courts wouldnt intervene to address the perpetually missed targets for health services, housing, education, etc, etc

Btw in what capacity do you expect a decision to be taken on the climate plans, are you just an av Joe living in a your uber env friendly non mcmansion urban pad or have you a little more skin in the game?

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121007892#Comment_121007892

Again, the elected government can change the laws. If I was in power the first one I'd get rid of is that which allows people bring cases on environmental grounds and the taxpayer picks up the tab. Anyway, laws can be changed if the electorate deem it needs changing. Or the government will pay the price. Like the GP could potentially face next election.

I'd wager that the majority of people are for reducing emissions as long as some one else does it for them. I'd wager again that's why agriculture is being spoke about so much as it doesn't directly impact many, or at least they see it that way. But God forbid you up flight costs or fuel prices to drive SUVs around busy cities. Hell even the affluent in south county Dublin are up in arms over new bus corridors.

Funny again you mention agriculture when it was one of the few sectors that actually reduced emissions according to the last report. Transport up by 6% in the same timeframe.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121008026#Comment_121008026

The courts rule on cases taken before them, if you believe there are legislated targets being missed in those area's you or anyone else can take such a case

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120984033#Comment_120984033

Idiot needs to spend some time in a 3rd world country. Entitled snowflake.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120976949#Comment_120976949

Goddamned outrage. This is mob rule with the tacit support of the Greens.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120977098#Comment_120977098

FFS Try a little science.

https://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2020/forestry-and-climate-change-mitigation-the-role-of-sitka-spruce-and-how-its-continued-improvement-will-play-a-key-role-in-climate-change-mitigation.php

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121008044#Comment_121008044

Again, the elected government can change the laws.

They can change the plans, the can change the structure, they can change the methods and routes to the targets, but only in so far as they will maintain or improve current progress. Moves in the other direction will be shot down by the courts. You may not like it but that is the situation. All environmental legislation that has been implemented has been done so under this backdrop and with this backstop built in. There is no going back

If I was in power the first one I'd get rid of is that which allows people bring cases on environmental grounds and the taxpayer picks up the tab. Anyway, laws can be changed if the electorate deem it needs changing. Or the government will pay the price. Like the GP could potentially face next election.

The Aarhaus Convention, EU treaties, UN Accords etc, prevent such actions. Once you give the electorate rights its very difficult to take them away, especially if its only because its a little bit inconvenient for you. Just look at the crap the Minister for Housing is going through trying to strip rights away under the proposed planning legislation. Everyone from environmental groups, to architects, to developers, to legal firms have all warned that that any moves to strip rights will result in the entire planning act being quashed by the courts. Everyone agrees that it needs reworking and moderinsation, and nobody wants to see it shot down.

I'd wager that the majority of people are for reducing emissions as long as some one else does it for them. I'd wager again that's why agriculture is being spoke about so much as it doesn't directly impact many, or at least they see it that way. But God forbid you up flight costs or fuel prices to drive SUVs around busy cities. Hell even the affluent in south county Dublin are up in arms over new bus corridors.

Emissions from flights is going to be taxed, just delayed at the moment. Don't worry, there'll be someone along shortly to say something along the lines of "OMFG you bastages, how dare you make holidays to Spain more expensive!!!11!1".

https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/eu-attempt-tax-polluting-aviation-fuel-hits-impasse-2023-08-02/

SUV's are also in line for additional charges

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2023/07/19/higher-taxes-may-be-needed-on-larger-cars-to-replace-lost-15bn-revenue-due-to-electric-vehicle-switch/

I now wait patiently for someone to scream how its unfair, they want to drive their tanks lol

Well, it'll be that or "wtf more taxes, thats all the Greens are good for". No doubt it'll be lost on them that such an SUV tax would be done through the Dept of Finance

Funny again you mention agriculture when it was one of the few sectors that actually reduced emissions according to the last report. Transport up by 6% in the same timeframe.

I saw that. Indicates further work must be done to reduce the number of cars on the road. A good start by the agri sector, but the crackpots are still a problem for that sector which is bizarre when you think about how badly it can be affected by climate change. Tillage farmers this year are screwed

https://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/arid-41207227.html

creedp

McMansions and tanks, more green based rhetoric. Really need to better define what is meant by these terms in order to stop the whole environmental debate being undermined

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121008204#Comment_121008204

The climate stuff is a law which can be changed and then the courts must follow that. Often happens. Vulture funds were gonna be screwed by the courts until Golfgate. Next thing the law was changed and people going through the courts who were about to win due to a previous case being won got screwed over. Laws change all the time.

You're confusing rights and laws or something. Laws can be changed, and the current climate stuff are laws and not rights. And BTW, rights can be run roughshod if required. For example, CPOing of land for infrastructure. Or designation of land as ANCs (an ANC is getting raw sewage pumped into it earlier today and not a word). Or the proposed NRL would have devalued peoples assets. Or your right to travel was taken away during COVID. Rights are all well and good but can be taken away with the stroke of a pen.

I'm not a big SUV fan but certainly see benefits for occupation safety. Plus most EVs are SUVs which is one of the problems legislating against them as it's probably weight based, and EVs are heavier beasts than ICE. I'm sure something will be worked out to screw the motorist. I'll say one thing and ya'll probably agree with me, anyone living in towns and just tipping around has no reason to have an SUV (unless it's a big family) or an ICE car in general.

I'm all too familiar with tillage being a bit banjaxed this year. High inputs with bad weather means poor returns. It's the same across beef, sheep, dairy, veg, etc. Remember there's a big push to increase tillage in this country and the government, to their credit, have put in some incentives to that end. The weather isn't playing ball this year and it's making things much harder, plus you have some "calendar farming" limits making things more stressful. Weather though is random and tillage has worked with it for generations. The main problem this year is the high input costs vs. the low outputs.

Edit to add that land rental prices as a result of nitrate banding meant dairy farmers out competed tillage for land, just to tick a box. This directly resulted in a reduction of tillage despite the push to increase the area. The banding also incorrectly put blame of nitrates directly on dairy, yet soil disturbance in tillage releases the nitrogen and allows it to move and be leeched away via air or water. Converting our entire island to tillage over dairy will do nothing for nitrate levels.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121008697#Comment_121008697

The climate stuff is a law which can be changed and then the courts must follow that. Often happens. Vulture funds were gonna be screwed by the courts until Golfgate. Next thing the law was changed and people going through the courts who were about to win due to a previous case being won got screwed over. Laws change all the time.

You're confusing rights and laws or something. Laws can be changed, and the current climate stuff are laws and not rights. And BTW, rights can be run roughshod if required. For example, CPOing of land for infrastructure. Or designation of land as ANCs (an ANC is getting raw sewage pumped into it earlier today and not a word). Or the proposed NRL would have devalued peoples assets. Or your right to travel was taken away during COVID. Rights are all well and good but can be taken away with the stroke of a pen.

I don't say this in a way to disparage you at all, you are one of the few I've managed to have reasoned debates with on this thread, however you really need to go off and have a read of the CAP. Honestly, there is a lot there that can clarify the situation for you. There is no going back. That is taken care of at multiple levels across many pieces of legislation plus EU agreements (EU Green deal, FitFor55), the Paris Agreement, UN agreements etc etc etc.

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/7bd8c-climate-action-plan-2023/

To give you an example, the CAP actions are released yearly, however they must align with the Carbon Budgets, which are multi-year. We are currently in the 2021-2025 carbon budget period. Now when the CAP annex of actions are released, they must go towards achieving the Carbon Budgets. They can't make the situation worse otherwise they can't, by design, go forward. This is where the courts come in, should such moves be attempted the courts will block them as they will not align with the carbon reduction goals already agreed.

Should a future govt try to modify the carbon Budget Figures, they can only do so if it aligns with the goal of net-zero by 2050 otherwise such a move will, again, be struck down.

In addition, failure to meet Carbon Budget targets within the timelines does not result in just saying "oh well" and moving on. What is required, under the legislation, is any missed targets are piled on top of the next phase targets and the action plans then have to be adjusted to take account of these higher targets.

As I said, you may not like this, but thats the way it is. There are no parties that are going to do an about turn for any number of reason not least of which because there is no electoral support for such a move.

If you wish to wait to see some future govt reverse course you'll be waiting, and waiting and waiting

On a side note, we're already off target for the current Carbon Budget period which means CAP actions from 2026 onwards are going to require steeper emission reductions as the targeted reduction could well end up being double digits.

roosterman71

Ah look, I think what is in law can be changed. No matter what it is.

Jaysus, I knew the Germans were ramping up on renewables, but I didn't realize it was going so fast

They've installed 7.7GW since the start of the year, 1.2GW of which was installed in July alone. They've a target of 215GW by 2030 which works out to a rate of 1.51GW needing to be added each month. Even with the high numbers they're doing they're off target. No doubt they'll get there though

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/08/21/germany-records-1-2-gw-of-new-solar-in-july/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121008894#Comment_121008894

Aye I know and you'll note I never said it can't be changed, I just said it has to align with the emission reduction goal otherwise any such change will be reversed

roosterman71

the goal can be changed too :-)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121009358#Comment_121009358

Yup, as I said, only in one direction

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.businesspost.ie/news/planned-second-carbon-tax-will-add-10-per-cent-to-energy-bills/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=qf

Greens want you all to stump up 10% more next year on energy.

The party clearly has a suicide wish. They are going to be annihilated anyway at the next election so maybe they think they may as well.

Homesick Alien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121010013#Comment_121010013

Or maybe they're not making policies for the sole purpose of getting re-elected.

Coolcormack1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121010013#Comment_121010013

Debt and taxes.why don’t they put everyone on a fixed income to get enough food to live and then knock us off by pension age.spare our betters though.the greens need to be made extinct permanently in next elections.

The practice of burning dirt seems to be dying off albeit slowly

https://twitter.com/JamieRohu/status/1693253558563471613?t=3uEghqYSM2yGIJfxvkVFmw&s=19