Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

"Green" policies are destroying this country

Options
18488498518538541067

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭Shoog




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭Shoog


    It doesn't change the equilibrium temp we are discussing. Its irrelevant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭Shoog


    For it to matter there would have to be a change in the overall biomass of the plant. There really isn't any significant trend so it's irrelevant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭Shoog


    I am not following you down your rabbit hole. Goodnight.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    Now and then i read the post of someone who is commenting on someone i've put on 'ignore' making it bleeding obvious why i did so in the first place..



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As I said taking things in Isolation is a Terrible Idea

    One wonders why you chose the population of only one species in that case



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,062 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Climate change will take care of the overpopulation issue.

    For decades, demographers have forecast an eventual downturn in the global population, from about 2070 or 2100, depending on who you read. It is based on decreasing fertility and increasing education and healthcare availability.

    But as a forecast, it was always lacking a catalyst. Now we know what that is.

    Natural selection always wins.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    The only thing to consider with regard to the Lybian floods is...

    Sounds like you're only interested in attribution. I don't think you dealt with the most important points at all. I'd rank them like this:

    • Resilience
    • Adaptation
    • Modelling and prediction
    • Mitigation

    Resilience is the reason that deaths from natural disasters plummeted to almost nothing in the course of the 20th century. No matter what nature throws at you, you're better off with the right infrastructure, regular inspections, maintenance, emergency services, early warning systems, insurance, disaster relief etc. Rich countries are resilient countries. Poor and unstable countries are not. Read the most recent World Food Organisation report. Climate change gets a couple of passing references. Political instability and war are the overwhelming causes of food shortages. Poor and unstable countries want to be richer. They don't list climate change as their number one priority. One element of that is that the world needs vastly more cheap and reliable energy.

    Adaptation is the most sensible course of action in many cases. The hundreds of millions of people living on the world's largest river deltas are vulnerable to innundation regardless of anthropogenic climate change. That's because sea level is rising regardless, and even if it wasn't their land is sinking because of land use changes and groundwater extraction. Those problems are all fixable and future ones avoidable. Lots of the world needs more air conditioning. That needs lots more energy.

    Climate models are woefully inadequate. We can't afford to spend trillions of dollars annually on mitigation if resilience and adaptation are more effective. We need to know which is which. (And for god sake don't bring up the Stern report again). Adaptation has the advantage that it can be deployed unilaterally. Mitigation requires a level of cooperation never heretofore achieved. Unilateral mitigation simply isn't a thing, something that Green ideologues need to be constantly reminded of. Modelling is super-important but we need to realise that it may never reach the resolution required. Back in the 1990s a single GCM grid square was larger than Ireland ... the next generation wasn't vastly better:

    For AR5 a grid square was still 5,000 sq. km:

    Every twofold improvement in resolution needs about ten times the computing power. Even if the models were more precise they would not be complete. We simply don't know what the full set of inputs is. That's not to say we shouldn't try to improve them. But they are never going to provide a crystal ball. And that's before we get to the fact that IPCC scenarios are not all about physical inputs. They involve complex economic and demographic modelling as well. To me that is the big problem with the model outputs in the IPCC assessment reports. Anybody with scientific training looking at a graph that shows uncertainty in the outputs would tend to assume that these are down to uncertainties in the input and analysis. If the uncertainties are random and independent then the central prediction can be taken as representative according to the central limit theorem. So you see the AR6 output and think these are predictions, albeit with a lamentable level of uncertainty:

    But that's not what the model outputs are in the ARs. They are the individual outputs of hundreds of different modeled scenarios. Here are AR5 and AR6 with about 1200 separate models each. You wouldn't guess from the previous diagram that there were hundreds of 1.5°C models in AR6 and a lot less high end ones compared to AR5:


    And finally we come to mitigation. I'm all for it. As long as it lets us have vastly more cheap, reliable energy and is demonstrably more sensible than spending money on resilience and adaptation. Green policies have a long way to go before that is established, partly because they seem to back all the wrong technology horses. And never forget that if we get this wrong and do stupid things to the fossil-based economy before we're good and ready, EVERYBODY DIES. I'd love to take some of that propaganda money that is being spent on drumming the climate message into our school kids and devote some of it to teaching them why we are so dependent on energy. Every household has the equivalent of half a dozen electric servants at their disposal. A single barrel of oil contains the energy equivalent of 12.5 years of hard human labour. The world consumes energy equivalent to half a trillion extra human workers. That's why everyone in a developed country is incomparably better off than even royalty from three hundred years ago, when they had to depend on actual servants. But it goes further than that. Everything we own, everything we use, everything we eat ... is translatable into energy inputs. Energy is the currency of the physical world. I'm not sure the average person gets it, in fact I'm pretty sure they don't.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭Shoog


    You must have spent a lot of time on that. I didn't read it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    And I'm sure it was very important to you to let me know that. Well, that's one less person to engage in fruitless discussion.

    Speaking of fruitless discussion, thanks for reminding me to number you among the out-and-out trolls.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    The Sun delivers enough energy to Earth to build seven billion extra people in about a week. You don't need to count the food separately. Never heard the phrase "you are what you eat"? Where do you think the chemical energy comes from?



  • Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭deholleboom


    There are several issues related to population decline some of them you mention like better healthcare and education, especially in the developing world. Add growth in technology and GDP with less children needed for support and labour. Less babies means a skewed population matrix. Boomers are retiring (and have) en masse. Scare about climate change will lead to youngsters having less babies. Things are also getting more expensive. Political and economical turbulence, technological changes.

    These are all important variables with uncertain outcomes much like the climate. We cannot predict the future. But of all the issues, the Boomer retiring is the most pressing and immediate one. I consider actual climate change one of the least ( i give the Climate Alarm another 3-5 years. Tops. We can of course also pivot to a climate cooling as we are at the tail end of an interglacial). We just need to get through the next 20 years before most Boomers will be gone ( with me at the tail end 😊). A gradual shift is the best outcome, war the worst. Incremental positive changes over time on multiple levels. Not very sexy but preferable to revolution.People in the west seem to have forgotten what war looks like, or starvation or real revolution. It is always somewhere else. But it can arrive at your doorstep if you ignore it..



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,554 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    What's the story with the ESB having an item on the hourly news bulletins this evening saying to hold off on using much power tonight? Is there an issue somewhere generating power?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,685 ✭✭✭flutered


    i hope it is ok to post this

    "Volkswagen cuts jobs as demand for EVs plunges"

    https://archive.ph/dWTvu



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,685 ✭✭✭flutered


    ,,,



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,062 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    To be fair, the real story is that demand for VW's own EVs is plunging, not for Tesla and BYD and MG and everyone else that is stacking them high and selling them cheap.

    Although perversely, the VW ID.4 remains Ireland's best selling EV, for now. I expect the Tesla Model 3 to become so, soon.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Here's more evidence for you to ignore

    ExxonMobil executives privately sought to undermine climate science even after the oil and gas giant publicly acknowledged the link between fossil fuel emissions and climate change, according to previously unreported documents revealed by the Wall Street Journal.

    The new revelations are based on previously unreported documents subpoenaed by New York’s attorney general as part of an investigation into the company announced in 2015. They add to a slew of documents that record a decades-long misinformation campaign waged by Exxon, which are cited in a growing number of state and municipal lawsuits against big oil.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭72sheep


    No. It's not ok, at all. You have traumatised me, and everyone I know, by posting that link. You are "not following the science" and so this is obviously hate speech. Thankfully Minister Helen, toiling every single day to deliver justice for us Irish citizens, is here to protect me. I'll be seeing you in court ;-)



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭Shoog


    VW always has had a problem with pricing appropriately to the market. It will take them a while to work out what it will tolerate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭ginger22


    ER on the news this morning. Twice he slipped in "the earth is burning" phrase. Some nutter.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not surprising really, survey after survey after survey shows the electorate being fully behind actions to address climate change. The other parties are fully aware this is an important, vote getting, issue




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I wonder if this is the type of policy reversals people are hoping for after the next election because this is a special kind of stupid from the new far right govt in Sweden




  • Registered Users Posts: 28,861 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Ryan and his numpties have continued their legacy of making things worse under the guise of "de Environment"

    An Bord Pleanála had to decide whether or not the controversial, €650m LNG plant and power stations will be permitted. A 120MW battery storage facility is also planned on the site, which is on the Shannon Estuary, directly opposite Moneypoint and close to Tarbert power station.


    But it has now been turned down.


    Since the invasion of Ukraine by Russia, the importance of security of energy supply has become more acute. However, the Green Party, led by Environment Minister Eamon Ryan, has opposed the construction of an LNG terminal in Ireland.

    Why these clowns - who only got 7% of the vote of those who bothered to turn out - are allowed dominate key infrastructure decisions like this is ridiculous.

    At a time when we're still not seeing the costs of living reducing and another winter ahead, this is a ridiculous decision for our long term energy security.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,989 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    The other interesting thing in this topic is, while people care about other issues in polls - climate action, social justice, immigration, etc - a vast majority of exit polls and ultimately results show that what people actually care about when casting their ballot is their own pocket. Rightly so IMO.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,861 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    "Climate action" is a bit like the idea of a United Ireland - ask people if they support it then of course they'll say yes in most cases .. but when it comes to the idea of paying for it, or the negative impacts it would bring to the budget and economy it's a very different story.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,404 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Will be interesting to see what the exact reasons for refusing are.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    “As a Heating Engineer, It’s Clear Customers Will Be Left Without Heating Entirely Because They Can’t Afford a Heat Pump”

    I have been a Heating Engineer for the last 25 years and am horrified at where our Uniparty politicians are taking us with their Carbon Net Zero lunacy. I have seen a memo from Worcester Bosch stating that it is going to be fined from 2024 if it sells more than 20,000 gas boilers or 1,000 oil boilers and as a result will have to pass the cost on to the consumer. I have completed a hydronics course and it is obvious that heat pumps are at best expensive and in a great many cases totally unsuitable for a lot of our housing stock. I can already see a situation where I attend a boiler breakdown and find that the boiler can’t be repaired and with this new legislation that the customer won’t be able to afford a new boiler or a heat pump and will be left with no heating or hot water. source

    We must pay attention to what happens in the UK, most gas and oil boilers we use are sourced from there. Over the coming years households in Ireland may find ourselves in a situation where heating systems break down and obtaining replacements is next to impossible in any timely manner if the part can't be found on the secondhand market and will incur substantial expense beyond what you might expect to pay today.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



Advertisement