"Green" policies are destroying this country

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145491#Comment_121145491

The goal is to have smart grids with close to real time pricing where utility scale BESS, hydrogen, pumped storage and flywheels and the millions of electric vehicles and domestic batteries will take a lot of the extra capacity when there is surplus and the price is very low.

It is funny how you're now opposed to renewables because they'll make electricity too abundant in the long term. No doubt you'll be on later to say we'll all freeze to death when there's a solar eclipse on a calm day

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145497#Comment_121145497

Oh great another one.

Is this what happens when twitter goes away? Legions of right wing conspiracy theorists with nowhere else to spew out boring repetitive ignorant vitriol against environmentalism?

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145856#Comment_121145856

Such a lazy retort, just because someone disagrees with your green ideologies, doesn't make them 'a right wing conspiracy theroist'. Its a term that is rolled out far to often around here, and more often than not used in the wrong context just to shut down a differing view.

TedBundysDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145856#Comment_121145856

"Right wing", "conspiracy theorists" lol you just needed to add Trump for the bingo.

Your game of putting people in little boxes to suit your looney agenda isn't working. 5% in the last election proves the Greens are the fringe looney minority and nobody is listening to what you are selling.

Shoog

Looney agenda. Pots shouldnt be calling kettle black. To funny.

TedBundysDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145876#Comment_121145876

It's a clear sign of someone who has lost the argument and is panicking. Certain people lack the self awareness to realise it has a detrimental effect on their agenda. Long may it continue.

TedBundysDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121144944#Comment_121144944

The green looney fringe attitude is to look down their noses at people less well off than the leafy D4 class. Everyone should have 80k to retrofit their house, 60k for the electric car, never eat meat, never go on a plane, have another 20k for solar panels etc... etc...

Remember, anyone who doesn't do these things is "whinging like a stuck pig" according to one poster on here last night. THAT encapsulates the Greens and how they view the less well off, elderly or disabled who haven't got 150k plus to throw away.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145508#Comment_121145508

"I don't have all the information or facts, I haven't looked, I don't want to know, I'll ignore anything you show me, therefore I can only conclude you're wrong"

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145876#Comment_121145876

I have no problem with people disagreeing, but the endless parade of comments not making any argument at all and simply declaring the existence of a green agenda and saying there's a scam to fleece the public is just so boring. That's not the basis for a constructive discussion. It's a conspiracy theory

deholleboom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145876#Comment_121145876

To me the interesting thing is that this 'lazy retort' is often used by quite intelligent people who would otherwise be very good conversationalists and fun to engage with. We saw it during Covid19 with the 'antivaxxers' meme. And before that anything to do with Trump and now of course w the climate/ green agenda and the Gender issue. It is as if a collective narrow mindedness takes place. Some have called it 'mass formation'. It is dumbing down any meaningful debate and punishing dissenters.

It continues to amaze me how some left leaning people ( like myself) are now put in a concentration camp called 'far right conspiracy theorists' for pointing out certain undeniable truths that can actually be backed up by data instead of the mere conjecture usually attached to these things. Very peculiar. It is not only fear but the strive for certainty. A binary process where people are put into 2 camps. The righteous and the infidels.

There comes a point where people feel they are being overly coerced and strongarmed, especially when things are dont add up, that they simply abandon any sympathy for anything related to a clean environment because it is clear that proponents of the Green Agenda are not looking to convince you but to bully you. They are power hungry authoritarians under the guise of their moral rectitude. They have a simplistic view of 'the problem' and 'the solution' whereby questions are not welcome. They dont see complexity. They merely have the simple road to the Green salvation and everybody just needs ti comply. They are actively blocking investigation and real debate. This will not end well..

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145937#Comment_121145937

But its not a conspiracy, the green party is more about stick than carrot, they look to tax or impose hefty costs on people to change how they heat their houses or live their lives. That cannot be denied.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145927#Comment_121145927

The term unbreathable was introduced here by me to describe a situation where nobody used clean fuel and everyone took the selfish cheapest option to heat their homes. There is absolutely no doubt that such a scenario would create an environment where many people would die in our towns and cities each year from respritory distress caused by breathing in the air.

But something something green agenda, something scam, something taxes

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145958#Comment_121145958

They also have introduced a grant system that allows most people to both save money and conserve energy. This is the whole principle of carbon taxes - discourage activity harmfull to the environment whilst encouraging favourable choices - whilst been as revenue neutral as possible

The issue that most conservative have is they don't see any need for change so they are always on the discouraged end of the equation. Hence they caracturise it as "the green agenda" against them. The green agenda is a logical response to the very real existential threat identified by the IPCC. If you disagree with the threat assessment of the IPCC then you can only frame the response as a negative and a conspiracy against you.

The reality is placing the earth on a sustainable path is a hugely complex and expensive endeavour, and mistakes will be made since we are after all only human.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145854#Comment_121145854

I never said anything about being opposed to renewables. I have nothing against the technology and work in the industry to integrate them. What I am opposed to is those pushing an agenda to line their own pockets whilst spewing nonsense about how renewables offer great value when they do not align with current market designs and distort pricing in both directions. They require significant grid development and seemingly still need supports in one form or another to be competitive. And yes, there'll be days when the sun doesn't shine through and the wind doesn't blow, where batteries can only do so much. Very few are talking openly and honestly about the overall cost of the system/market and who is going to pay for it.

I'm eagerly looking forward to the Entso-E Offshore Network Development Plans due in January so we can finally get some insights into how this might piece together.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145927#Comment_121145927

Finally, an admission that you haven't got the foggiest. That's the first honest statement you've made here, assuming you are talking in the first person about yourself

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145958#Comment_121145958

But there are thousands of euros of funding available to people to upgrade their homes targeted at the people who can least afford it, and also very generous grants to retrofit older properties to make them more affordable to live in while reducing their carbon emissions...

The tax burden imposed by the greens is massively overstated. Remember when the incandescent light bulbs were banned. Now I can light my entire house for the same price it would have cost to light my kitchen using halogens and incandescent bulbs. The few hundred I spent to swap the Bulbs years ago has saved me thousands. People who upgraded their insulation or live in BER B+ housing due to stricter regulations are also saving huge amounts of money that many take for granted...

deholleboom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145491#Comment_121145491

My brother in Holland is still on the good side of things. He has had his solar panels up for a year and received 1700 euro back from his solar company. But only because he has a good (5 year) contract with a fixed return on the electricity put back into the grid. Those type of contracts are now no longer available.

It is a bit like with EVs. The early adopters who can afford it ( and can borrow low) get the benefits. By the time the masses are supposed to come around those (state) subsidies and advantages premiums by companies will have vanished..

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145988#Comment_121145988

And as has been shown at that point they will not be needed since EV will cost the same or less than ICE cars. That is how subsidies work - to allow a market to mature enough to bring costs down to a level where they are no longer needed.

This is how all socially beneficial infrastructure has always been financed.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145854#Comment_121145854

What will make electricity too abundant? You're not taking about solar or wind so what is this amazing tech you speak of?

Unless you mean there will actually build the 30GW of wind, here's a hint, they won't. Even then, when there's a surplus they will be curtailed, you can't just keep generating any amount of power you want. There are system requirements that need to be met, plus I doubt the producers would be will to take negative pricing in this real time pricing model you propose.

prunudo

Everything is so simple in the green world, you either have money to pay for upgrades or you get a grant. How about the 'squeezed middle', the people who have bills coming out their ears yet are expected to be forking out ten of thousands on heat pumps, pv panels, new windows, air tightness and then a new ev to top it off. Whether you want to admit it or not, embracing the green world requires people digging deep into their pockets.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145988#Comment_121145988

The early adopters pay much higher costs. Later adopters get better tech for cheaper.

It's swings and roundabouts really. We need the early adopters to get in early to pay for the infrastructure and to fine tune the processes and technology. Later on renewable will be the default for everything and most people will just get on with it. No green agenda.

The science is very clear. If we don't stop emitting ghgs the outcomes for the future get progressively worse the longer we delay

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145998#Comment_121145998

More nonsense. Plenty of socially beneficial infrastructure has been financed in the past without direct government subsidy. It is one model, but not the only model.

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145856#Comment_121145856

So, someone who disagrees with you line of thinking is a ‘right wing conspiracy theorist’?🤫

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121146013#Comment_121146013

It involve investment. Just like all infrastructure.

Governments can finance that like they finance all infrastructure

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121146058#Comment_121146058

Not a single watt of nuclear would have been built without that model, neither would any motorway. The Hoover dam which kicked off the American grid was financed through a government backed bond.

Business doesn't build big infrastructure projects without government supports. All countries are ultimately socialist.

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121146086#Comment_121146086

I agree with You regarding government provide finance for the various house upgrades.

BUT, as we all know the current government is a coalition and it’s coming across as taxing the living daylights out to people to compromise - Ala Hogan & his threat about water pressure to force us serfs to pay for water, and we all know where that got him.

Ryan comes across ( imho ) as a politician who believes he is right and everyone else is wrong. And that belief has gone to his head now with him commenting on the UK’s u-turn & Lough Neagh - something he is perfectly entitled to do in his private capacity, but to use the government platform?

He is really sending out all the wrong ‘signals’. And by doing so, alienating those who are open to going green in the main, me included.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121146135#Comment_121146135

Tell that to the Moyle interconnector. Or Greenlink for that matter.

You see the problem with using statements like "how all socially beneficial infrastructure has always been financed" or "big business doesn't build big infrastructure projects without government supports" is that it only takes one example to undermine your argument.

InAtFullBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121145856#Comment_121145856

Have I said anything untrue - where are the financial savings to consumers from all the wind turbines and now increasing amounts of solar panels going up on a commercial basis. Here's the answer - there are no savings. Why, because whether it's the dirty coal man or the sleazy turbine man selling power - they both equally and firmly have their greasy paws in the till - all enabled and abetted by the political class.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121146154#Comment_121146154

You think the Moyle interconnector was built by 'big business?'

There are lots of different funding models for infrastructure. I don't think most environmental activists are that invested in any one model. It's not a 'scam' to 'bleed money'.

Akrasia

Coming across?

What has the actual increase in the tax burden been?

I think your impression of green policies comes more from spin based on where you get your news than what the actual policies are