"Green" policies are destroying this country

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121166945#Comment_121166945

Hence the current legal challenge to make the govt make further cuts in emissions, faster

ps200306

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121166454#Comment_121166454

Sorry but that's exactly what the science says. There is an inhabited band around the world where temps are regularly reaching 50c for sustained periods. That is the temp at which people die. Thats what is happening at just under 1.5c warming.

How does one even begin to respond to this nuttiness? There's an inhabited band around the world where temps regularly reach minus 50°C. So what? There are permanent human settlements from 78°N to 55°S and everywhere in between. There are very few places in the world that don't have killer temperatures at some time of year. A regular mild winter right here in Ireland will kill you quite efficiently. The whole planet is "effectively uninhabitable for us humans" until we do stuff like, you know ... wear clothes, light fires, turn on the aircon etc.

I've no idea what "science" you're reading. Sounds more like a warning sign on a nudist beach in Svalbard or pamphlets from your local chapter of the cult of doom. It's a sign of our irrational times that you actually expect this guff to be taken seriously.

ps200306

Is this a sign of the greenies embracing nuclear? John Kerry addresses the "Accelerating Net Zero Nuclear" conference:

https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/World-needs-nuclear-for-net-zero-Kerry?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

"Most scientists will tell you … we can't get to net zero 2050 unless we have a pot, a mixture, of energy approaches in the new energy economy. And one of those elements which is essential in all the modelling I've seen, is nuclear."

But there's something else that fewer people seem to have noticed:

"We're currently heading towards something like 2.4 degrees, 2.5 degrees of warming on the planet and everything that you see happening today is happening at 1.1 degrees Celsius of warming," he said.

Uh, is this the same John Kerry that said this, just two years ago:

Kerry says rest of world ‘doomed’ unless 20 nations take climate action

“If we do not do enough, between 2020 and 2030, then 1.5 degrees is dead, gone — that will happen; even 2 degrees will happen,” Kerry added. “And currently, as we’re talking today, we are regrettably on course to hit somewhere between 3, 4 degrees at the current rate.”

Seems that even the Green Cult of Doom is finally starting to realise that RCP8.5 is dead. If they also get on board with nuclear we might actually manage to tread a sustainable path before they manage to completely wreck the place.

ps200306

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167033#Comment_121167033

Things that can't be done won't be done. It's about the most ironclad of iron laws. Neither government diktat nor courts of law can conjure the impossible.

For people who don't get it, I strongly recommend the following podcast episode. It's about one apartment building in New York grappling with "Rule 97", a barmy law passed by the city legislature in 2019 requiring every building in the city to progressively cut emissions, reaching 80% by 2040. As a microcosm of green policies everywhere, it's illuminating. Struggling building residents (mostly young families and retirees on fixed incomes) will have to come up with at least $20,000 per apartment. However, engineers have said the required retrofit simply isn't possible at all. Even if it were, the city's grid couldn't provide the power for electrification. And even if it could, all the local power generation is from fossil fuels anyway, having shut down their local nuke at Indian Point which used to provide a third of the city's power with zero emissions. Pure madness -- the only saving grace is the iron law: things that can't happen won't happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4if0DnUCcg

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121165418#Comment_121165418

Well said Blut2: but in the broader picture, where does that leave us? Personally, I was always a Labour supporter but the shenanigans by Gilmore, Burton & Kelly that Labour dream is blown away. So along came the SD’s. I leaned towards them, but there seems to be persistent rumours of them joining up with Labour, which I find unbearable.

The 2 main ‘parties’ are in power for 100 years yet seem to be going backwards. So where does that leave me? SF or independents. I like to give an independent a voice, but here our independent is supporting the government for my liking.

So that leaves the unknown quantity in SF. I am not comfortable supporting them, but what other choices are available?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167460#Comment_121167460

The Greens? They need votes.

TedBundysDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167479#Comment_121167479

A vote for a Green is a vote to destroy this country as per the thread title.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121165622#Comment_121165622

What difference does it make if the bay is popular or unpopular? I look out at it every day and even on the busiest summer weekend, it's 99% empty due to its vastness. They might as well fill it with turbines, there's plenty of room for people and turbines to coexist.

Otherwise, where else would you build them? Every stretch of coast has some scenic value to locals and tourists alike. But the further away from the load centre in Dublin, the more onshore network investment that is required. Build where they are needed and keep the costs down. Anyone who wants energy should accept there will be infrastructure required.

machiavellianme

At least someone is thinking of a Plan B. Bravo Esb and Eirgrid. Presumably it'll be further extended.

https://www.irishtimes.com/environment/climate-crisis/2023/09/28/moneypoint-power-station-to-be-kept-open-until-2029-despite-emissions-concerns/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167562#Comment_121167562

It'll be out of the day-to-day power generation game from 2025, will switch to oil and will sit there as a backup emergency generator only until 2029.

I'm OK with that as its unlikely to run during that period and if it does it would be for very short periods

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167609#Comment_121167609

Exactly, it’s a last resort. The emissions from this endeavour are not worth talking about. Not sure what the guy from Friends of the Earth is getting flustered about tbh

bluedex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167153#Comment_121167153

This could be applied to most threads on Boards but the main problem is:

There are a huge amount of really stupid people, incredibly gullible people who'll believe anything as long as some academic said it (Professor Big Brain etc..) and really lazy people who don't bother to use their brains and actually think through issues or try to understand them (sheeple).

Unfortunately this large proportion of the population will always exist, so the cycle continues.

Akrasia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXASRXbjR08

Just a bit of perspective on where we need to be going as a global population (we've been going in the wrong direction in a lot of these sustainable development goals)

A lot of these goals are dependent on stabilising global climate, and a lot of the people who oppose stabilising climate are also opposed to the other goals in the UNSDGs

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121165216#Comment_121165216

I find looking at a dozen wind turbines in the distance far less intrusive than looking at a smoke stack from a power station spewing out toxic fumes 24 hours a day.

People just don't like change, but change is coming regardless. Do we want change that preserves most of our natural coastlines and allows us to live sustainably for generations to come, or change that is imposed upon us by rising seas and storms eating away at our coasts, and rising temperatures killiing off our native flora and fauna and replacing them with new species that can tolerate the new conditions and pests/diseases/funghi that come along with them

And some of the people objecting to offshore wind turbines in Dublin Bay probably look fondly at the poolbeg power station smoke stacks just because they've been there for a long time

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121165056#Comment_121165056

Solar makes up for in speed of deployment what it lacks in 24 hour 365 reliability

Solar plus storage plus rapid deployability means more and more displacement of the need for 'peaker' plants, better frequency regulation and a reduction in our greenhouse emissions.

It starts with reducing the need to have peaker plants on standby, then we have the 'baseload' generators going offline for longer periods and kept in reserve for the periods of long term shortages, and eventually even these will be withdrawn as our energy infrastructure matures and we have our interconnectors with the European supergrid plus storage dispersed locally and at grid scale

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167519#Comment_121167519

Plenty of folks happy to pay a bit more for the energy if its sourced further out to sea or from a less populated seascape.

The companies developjng this tech are not doing it out of the goodness of their heart. They do it to make money and if they need to pay more to deliver, thats fine with me.

There are other ways of developing energy as we all know and we shouldnt be help to ransom by anyone in that regard.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167948#Comment_121167948

Again, not opposed to them in principle.

But there are suitable places and unsuitable places.

I dont see plans for them in natural beauty spots and rightly so. Dublin Bay is such an amenity.

Whatever we both personally think is irrelevant in the grand scheme, but what is for sure is that there will be a huge protest against them in Dublin Bay.

Wind farms arent the only option to produce renewables as well.

I expect in the not too distant future we will all pivot to nuclear anyway.

Any rising tides that occur in ireland will not be influenced by whether or not we install wind farms in Dublin Bay.

deholleboom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167730#Comment_121167730

Indeed. But i dont consider stupid people to be the problem. It is those who SHOULD know better and have actively shut off their thinking brain. In my opinion the main factor is not so much the science but the insistence on a consensus about a settled science. We can all pick the right science to support what we think already.

But, and this is the key, it is 100% certain that the climate is a complex and dynamic system that cannot simply be calculated into a simple equation or model. And we know we cannot simply trust the experts and institutions as they have been politicized. To the detriment of science.

The variables are not fixed. You can SAY they are but you'll be lying. You can believe in the validity of your argument but you CANNOT say there is a Solution to the Problem. Einstein said you can make things as simple as possible but not simpler. This is exactly what alarmists do. Not only that: the real ugly thing is that they actively try to silence dissent. A Green Inquisition. It is political in nature and nothing to do with science, utterly shameful and needs to be resisted. And champion diversity..of thought.

Jizique

New York Times article on bees and biodiversity.

The craze for honey bees now presents a genuine ecological challenge. Not just in Slovenia, but around the world. “If you overcrowd any space with honey bees, there is a competition for natural resources, and since bees have the largest numbers, they push out other pollinators, which actually harms biodiversity,” he said, after a recent visit to the B&B bees. “I would say that the best thing you could do for honey bees right now is not take up beekeeping.”

deholleboom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121165763#Comment_121165763

Indeed. Most small companies fall into the 'opportunity knocks' category and riding the green wave. It was and maybe still is seen as a growing market. Most of the small players are solar panel installators. They come, make money and go. Like the builders.The big ones are in wind. No matter what, supply chain disruption is a killer for investment. The faith in maintaining the current system ( which the green transition needs) is waning. Problems accumulating. Big companies requiring big investment pulling out. The green market is shakey. The sentiment negative and going down. It deflates hope for the future. People feel it. Those still in the Green Dream ignore and deny it..As i said many times: they are the faithful, the True Believers. Or they are so rich , powerful and well connected they can isolate themselves from consequences. Bill Gates anyone!?

Edit: and Green politicians who want to do 'the right thing' will be enjoying their pensions or cushy jobs long after the damage is done and blame it on others for 'not doing enough'. In other words:'mistakes were made...but not by me'!

bluedex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168544#Comment_121168544

Agree wholeheartedly with all of that. I'd still consider stupid people to be part of the problem, but you're right - it's the ones who lazily won't engage their brains and think for themselves that are a bigger problem. The biggest problem of all for me is the last one you mention: where the zealots/alarmists actively try to silence "dissent", anyone who disagrees with/questions/debates their views. Calling them them "Climate Change Deniers" and the like - you see it on this very thread.

You see some consistently excellent posts from some contributors, including detailed factual data and information - yet the response is always a simplistic "humanity is f***ed". I applaud those posters who continue to provide this information in the face of such, to be frank, nonsense.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168557#Comment_121168557

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't most species of bees actually hiveless? Quite a few seem to be nesting in the brickwork of the old wing of my parents' house.

More calls for a vehicle tax based on weight

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/experts-call-for-weight-based-car-tax-as-number-and-size-of-suvs-explodes/a45082408.html

It would certainly do wonders to limit the number of Chelsea tractors on the school runs

This is one to watch for early next year. It could force a complete rewrite of the EU green deal and 30+ climate action plans to speed up emission reductions

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2023/09/27/young-peoples-court-case-in-europe-seeks-to-force-countries-to-make-deeper-emissions-cuts/

TedBundysDriver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121168557#Comment_121168557

Doom and Gloom. The Green loonie go to move.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169484#Comment_121169484

Great I wonder will these brave young lads then turn their attention to forcing Govts to provide proper housing and education today? As my daughter sometime spouts at me whenever I disagree with something she says, "Its alright for for you middle income white males but what about my generation?" Course shortly after she's looking for money for this, that and the other and wanting to know when she'll get her car insurance and bemoaning that her friends middle income white male father bought her a car.

Easy to be on the moral high horse when someone else is paying the bills.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169459#Comment_121169459

Why are they using the image of a smoky old commercial van to support weight based taxation for private cars?

ps200306

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167963#Comment_121167963

Solar makes up for in speed of deployment what it lacks in 24 hour 365 reliability

Solar plus storage plus rapid deployability means more and more displacement of the need for 'peaker' plants, better frequency regulation and a reduction in our greenhouse emissions.

How much storage? A back-of-an-envelope estimate will do fine. Not looking for fine detail. However, please include both power and energy (watts and watt-hours).

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167153#Comment_121167153

Theres a big difference between being too cold and putting on a jumper and coat or living in a very well insulated house, and being too hot and... dying

Generally temperature measurements for climate and weather data are taken in the shade. This is about the only mitigation most people can do to escape from fatally high temperatures, to seek shade. Without air conditionng, or moving underground, people cannot survive wet bulb temperatures greater than 31c at 100% relative humidity (for young healthy people, older or infirm people would die at lower wet bulb temperatures)

The methods we have to shelter from the cold in winter involve insulating from the cold and heating an internal space. This can be done without electricity by burning fuel

In a deadly heatwave, what happens to the electricity system? Well, it often fails. Huge surges in demand for electricity as everyone has their air conditioning systems operating at maximum capacity all the time, coupled with reduced efficiency in thermal generators, (difficulties in cooling thermal and nuclear power plants as water temperatures are also likely to be high), solar power generators are also less efficient in very hot temperatures)....

The science is clear. Global warming will displace hundreds of millions of people due to rising temperatures. The number of displaced is directly correlated with how much warming we allow to happen.

It's not too late to prevent most of the warming that we could end up with. We're watching right now, the exponential increase in Battery Energy storage which is a crucial piece of the puzzle in unlocking the renewable energy resources that will power our world in the future

Texas, for example, has deployed 5gw of storage in the last 3 months alone, with 22gw of additional storage in the pipeline, with a growth rate seeing storage capacity expand 22 times in the past 4 years

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/technologyinvesting/texas-battery-use-expected-to-grow-as-us-storage-sector-sets-new-record/ar-AA1hoj5J

The same story is replicating around the world.

Renewables are cheaper than Fossil fuels, and with storage, that cheap energy can be deployed without having to worry about overloading the grid and is going to displace a lot of fossil fuel generation in the coming years

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169459#Comment_121169459

Electric cars weigh up to twice as much as ICE ones. A vehicle tax based on weight, under the justification that heavier cars do more damage to our roads (which is true) wouldn't just limit the number of SUVs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121167033#Comment_121167033

There can be as many legal challenges as people want, its not going to change reality. Our emissions have risen the last 3 years in a row, by 12.3% (!) last year. And they've been broadly static since 2010, almost a decade and a half with no overall reduction. And thats what we've "achieved" with the Green party actually in government, holding the Environmental portfolio at cabinet no less, since early 2020.

If anyone thinks either of our likely next governments - SF & FF, or SF & Lab/SocDems & rural INDs (some of whom are very climate skeptical) will be more likely to bring in unpopular, expensive, environmental measures I've got a bridge to sell you.

The idea that we're suddenly going to cut emissions by 10%+ a year starting in 2024, every year for the rest of this decade, is absolutely not going to happen in the real world. And thats what would be required to meet the 51% "legally binding committment" by 2030 now.