"Green" policies are destroying this country

Coolcormack1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121261045#Comment_121261045

oh ya bash farmers for everything.it’s really boring.go off and hug a tree and then when u have no farmers eat it.sooner this green bs dies away the better

eightieschewbaccy

I'm pretty directly flooded by the flooding in East Cork area, floods hit the town but also far less built up areas outside of the town that have never experienced flooding. So ya, the 24 hours of torrential rain fall was the largest factor at play and from what I gather storm drains were literally being cleared this week. Obviously flood defences need to improve. But we've got countries across the globe experiencing once in a lifetime weather events on a pretty frequent basis... So yep, global warming is the cause.

roosterman71

Well I know the river running through my land has approx 90cm of silt and stuff built up along it. There is no fish any more as they need gravel deposits to spawn. In the 60s, 70s and even 80s this river was cleaned every 5 years or so and the fish in it fed the village at times. Cleaning hasn't happened since 1989 (incidentally they found a massive gun belonging to the IRA on the banks when cleaning it). Over the intervening years it's got dirtier and dirtier. There's grasses/reeds growing, openings for streams to flow in blocked off, thus pushing water back up them, farmland and woodland floods regularly, houses are now being flooded (last year for the first time ever 2 houses 700m away with a tributary stream behind them flooded. The councils solution was a consultation and now a 750k euro plan to build a 180m wall along behind the 2 houses). There's some fine trees lining the banks which fell in over the years but I'm not allowed take them out. Even the railway that crosses it is now in danger of being flooded at times. All because cleaning of rivers isn't happening. If more rain is falling due to climate change, then we need to shift that water faster to the sea. Flooding of towns isn't a price that should be paid for green ideology, or to protect fish that don't exist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121260996#Comment_121260996

That's correct, up to you whether you reclaim it though.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121261087#Comment_121261087

Rivers managed to flow for centuries before the magical solution of dredging came along and your telling me that stopping dredge caused all of these issues. BS.

paddyisreal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121261223#Comment_121261223

?? Rivers have also been dredged . The Egyptians, Romans dredged rivers a long long time ago. Didn't Leonardo da Vinci invent a dredging machine ffs

Pa ElGrande

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121260928#Comment_121260928

When all you have is a hammer, every problem is a nail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbb4ibQuZkk

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121261546#Comment_121261546

I couldn't have described you better myself. Thanks.

Shoog

There is a certain class of mainly males who are ideologically opposed to the concept of man made climate change because it disproves the fundamentally conservative neo-liberal beliefs they live their life by.

Namely;

• Belief in small non-interventionalist government. They fundamentally disagree that some issues need governmental and internationally coordinated plans of action and interventions in markets to make them happen.
• That free markets will always produce the best possible outcome by the "magic hand". A minimally regulated environment. AGW been the ultimate refutation of this belief.
• That growth is the main measure of a societies success.
• There are always technical fixes to every issue, rather than addressing the fundamental causes.
• That large complex systems cannot be controlled intentionally.

Anyone who shows these personal beliefs is to ideologically driven to have a rational discussion on the science of climate.

InAtFullBack

From: How Somerset Levels river flooded after it was not dredged for decades (telegraph.co.uk)

Unfortunately here, the before image is what we want to see as the after image... the right hand side is the result of inaction.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121261167#Comment_121261167

So I was right first time.

People like myself who are already 100% recyclers of bottles and cans will be inconvenienced by the new system.

Little consolation that they can avoid the inconvenience by paying a financial penalty when they have been doing the right thing all along.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121261665#Comment_121261665

I know a couple of those guys🤣 What % of the population fits neatly into that student union debating team discussion title IYO

ednwireland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121258022#Comment_121258022

yeh seen loads , total waste of time . only bottles in the scheme will be accepted so basically we will be charged more for goods pushing up inflation. I already recycle 100 % of my plastic bottles into my green bin. and buy in glass where possible which is taken to a recycling point. they are so small I can't see them takin a lot anyway.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121261735#Comment_121261735

Depends on what you define as inconvenience. I'm guessing you would define it as any deviation from the normal

Either way it's coming in and will see our recycling rates increase.

If this upsets a few, oh well, we're required to do it,all EU members are and by 2025 everywhere you go in the EU, it will be the same

Think back to the wingeing and moaning when the bag levy came, had a huge effect on litter and waste around the country. This will be no different

KildareP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121247446#Comment_121247446

And we've had climate doom predictions and peak oil announcements for decades now that have also come to nought - am I to assume that we can apply your logic in the same manner to all current day predictions on climate and oil?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121261837#Comment_121261837

Pretty sure a month's worth of rain in 1 day is not normal

KildareP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121261857#Comment_121261857

No it's not. But then:

• Hurricane Charlie (1986) wasn't normal.
• The Thames flooding in 1953 wasn't normal.
• The Columbian River flooding large parts of the western US in 1862 wasn't normal.

Have a look at how many "Great Floods" there were going back over the centuries. They weren't normal either, even by today's standards.

But then, putting everyone on watch that there mightn't be enough electricity to keep the grid powered isn't normal for a western society, either.

But hey, apparently we should only listen to one expert groups warnings!

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121261223#Comment_121261223

They did and there wasn't the same demands put on them by massive urban sprawl built up alongside them. Where it was, the rivers were cleaned and kept. Remember that a rivers role is to drain and transfer water from A/B/C to the sea. If the rivers capacity for carrying water is diminished, and the prospect of higher rainfall coming down the line, plus flood plains no longer flood plains or having a higher water table, then the prospect of many more flooding events increases. And then to come in half gloating that it's proof positive of climate change and refusing to acknowledge that cleaning a river may alleviate some issues is quite frankly, a terrible stance to take. In my example a cleaner river would drain more water. There's a cost to doing it but each landowner on the river could be asked to foot some of the bill. That would avoid a big exchequer outlay for flooding and/or counter measures to protect people (like 750k for a 180m wall plus consultation fees).

patnor1011

Lets reopen couple of our silver, lead and copper mines we may be in the money soon since demand is going to pick up considerably.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/worlds-electric-grids-not-capable-of-supporting-renewable-energy-supply-5512673

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121261665#Comment_121261665

Blaming males, then anyone who questions the stance is "ideologically opposed", a "conservative" "neo-liberal". What a load of word scutter.

When we get internationally coordinated plans then fantastic. But we don't have bar agreements on paper that are ignored by many (I'm looking at India/China mainly) and what's happening here is that this small island is expected to change how we live drastically for gains that no one has been able to quantify, all the while taxing the bejaysus out of the population and putting the cart before the horse in terms of power generation (closing what's working) in the hope of more renewables which may/may not be reliable depending on the weather at some point in the future, while being anti-nuclear but pro burning biomass imported from South America which we'll use to power the grid already under strain but with plans galore to demand more from it by heat pumps, EVs, etc, etc

Coolcormack1979

my local town this morning with millions being spent on flood control works and the road leading into it is flooded worse than ever.why? Because of the refusal by the genius over it to clean up the river leading into it from a certain point.hey just waste about 20 million on it without doing the whole bloody job right.but in this day and age the green zealots must be obeyed and common sense can go to hell.

all it needed was the river to be cleaned up and the overgrowth cut back to allow the water to flow freely.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121261834#Comment_121261834

Queueing in the cold and rain to put containers in a slot one at a time when before I could just drive up to the bins and put them in.

That's inconvenience, not a deviation to the normal but a new normal.

Having said that if it works and reduces littering/improves recycling I'll support it and do my bit.

I'm not whinging and moaning, just putting a point of view.

I campaigned for the plastic bag levy.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262210#Comment_121262210

You're on a 1st strike, no dissent allowed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262210#Comment_121262210

"Normal" is not a static state

Good to see you support this

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262329#Comment_121262329

It's a sort of guarded welcome.

I first saw these systems working in Germany about 25 years ago.

They were located inside supermarkets.

All green initiatives should be scrutinised and discussed.

They are not necessarily perfect because they have been proposed with good intent.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262238#Comment_121262238

Irony is that I'm not really a dissenter.

We really do need to reduce, reuse, recycle.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262210#Comment_121262210

In Germany all the machines are located inside supermarkets. There's still bottle bins where you can put in stuff that that can't be recycled in machines. And there's plastic bins for stuff that can't be recycled.

So if I buy a bottle of coke here, I can return the empty in the supermarket. If I buy a bottle of beer here, I can return it in the supermarket.

A lot of wine bottles can't be returned. I pop those into the bottle bank around the corner.

The bottle of ballygowan I bought in Dublin airport on the way back her won't be accepted by the machine in the supermarket/ So I pop it into my plastic recycling bin.

If I wanted to I could put all the glass bottles into the glass bottle bank.

And likewise I could place all the plastic bottles into the plastic recycling bin.

For me here, the only deviation is having the option to return a lot of it for cash.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262210#Comment_121262210

In Germany it has reduced bottle waste and bottle littering to zero. This is because anyone who throws away a bottle quickly has it picked up by a poor person for the refund cash. It's highly effective in all objectives and gives some people a small income.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121262129#Comment_121262129

You have repeatedly missed the point I have made - which is that dredging causes worse downstream flooding. That's an absolute fact. So since almost all the major cities are located at the mouths of rivers that a huge problem. One of the major prediction of climate analysis is that this will become an increasing issue when combined with rising sea levels. Many cities will become uninhabitable unless huge sums of money are sunk into flood defenses - a strategy which is ultimately doomed to fail.

It is far better to manage floods at their source which is in the uplands and the middle reached of rivers.

roosterman71

And you missed my point about carrying water from A to the sea. By your logic, rivers filling with dirt and weeds and trees and silt and banks falling in will lead to less flooding in cities because the water will take longer to get there. Rising sea levels has nothing to do with it, but again, by green logic adaption isn't allowed and the money should be spent on wind turbines. Let the places flood and be told it's because you don't drive an EV that it's happening. Cop on.

I don't get how anyone can say cleaning rivers is a bad thing! Cities at mouths of rivers are easier to defend against for floods as the rivers are usually wider and it's easier build defences along the sides. The Shannon has ESB managing the water flow and Bord na Mona pumping silt in. As a result vast areas are flooding at much less rain than normal (look at the callow floods from this summer). It wasn't because ESB closed of the gates to back up the water to protect Limerick, it's because the water can't get away quick enough to the sea. Cleaning rivers should be handled by the OPW, start at the mouth and work your way up along. When finished, start again. Just like was done 50+ years ago until numpties decided it wasn't cost effective anymore, but makes more sense to spend millions on walls in towns and screw the land and people outside of them