"Green" policies are destroying this country

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121550302#Comment_121550302

If it is an anti-dumping measure, why in it called the Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism? It is inflationary, protectionist and likely to have more holes than a Swiss cheese. It is likely to destroy what is left of the European industrial base.

antoinolachtnai

What very small minority would that be?

486 MEPs voted for the CBAM. That’s more than three quarters. Less than 12 percent of the democratically elected MEPs voted against.

I take no offence and I only ask because you come on here and complain but when the thing was being openly debated it seems like you didn’t have much to say.

patnor1011

Here is a nice example of what this all is about. It is just make believe and pretending because it seems it is a norm these days. To try to look better even though it is just a charade...

https://brownstone.org/articles/esg-dei-and-the-rise-of-fake-reporting/

antoinolachtnai

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121551662#Comment_121551662

What does that actually have to do with CBAM? The workings of the CBAM and the ETS are nothing like this.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121551627#Comment_121551627

705 MEPs and 27 Commissioners dictate everything for over 400 million odd souls. I'd say that's a fairly small minority, wouldn't you? They certainly won't have captured every single member of the populace's wishes.

Besides, you might need a new calculator. 486 is less than 70% of 705, so not the three quarters you claim.

Seeing as simple maths is a challenge for you, it's no wonder the complex economic impact of CBAM is also proving tricky to understand.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121551726#Comment_121551726

Did I say anything about CBAM?

antoinolachtnai

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121551746#Comment_121551746

So how many voted against? Remind me again?

You don’t agree with the representative democracy concept?

How do you think we should go about making decisions about dealing with climate change?

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121551375#Comment_121551375

In reply to your post #29747 on the Paris Agreement of what were the legal ramification for non-compliance I`m still waiting for your answer. In the real world rather than the imaginary one some greens live in the simple truth is there are none. As a "binding agreement" it`s in the realm of ashtrays on motor bikes.

I`m well awre that CRAM is an E.U. measure and the Paris Agreement was down to the U.N. but from you attempting to link both it appears you didn`t.

As far as either is concerned I wouldn`t give to much heed. The present and proposed green measure are now hitting the economic road of reality. Even the greens motherland Germany is now waking up to the reality, and if there is one thing sacred in Germany above all else it`s their economy.

When you see former leading lights of Extinction Rebellion and the green RePlanet group now questioning and disagreeing with the economic viability of this green masterplan then should even that not give you a hint, or is economics also a planet in some far off galaxy to you as well as a few others on here ?

antoinolachtnai

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121551972#Comment_121551972

The Treaty was solemnly entered into and ratified by the parties. That is why it is legally binding.

What are your practical proposals to make there be more ‘ramifications’ as you call them?

If you think there aren’t enough ‘ramifications’ then why are you so bitterly opposed to CBAM? It is a ‘ramification’ for large industrial producers who ignore their obligations under Paris

I have no idea about these leading lights of yours. I have no doubt that there are hard questions to be asked about European industrial policy. Can you point out where these leading lights opposed the ETS and the CBAM?

Did you offer your input when the CBAM when it was being debated and designed?

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121552021#Comment_121552021

Nonsense. In the Catholic Chuch there were, and probably still are, confirmation ceremonies where those being confirmed enter into an agreement where they would not drink alcohol until a certain age. That agreement is on the same level of being legally binding as the Paris Agreement.

THere you go yet again. You appear to not understand that CBAM is the child of the E.U. and the Paris Agreement is the child of the U.N. two different entities. I never mentioned anything in relation to CBAM, I asked you what the ramifications were for your "legal binding" Paris Agreement and you still have not answered. But then, are you that naive to believe that if there were do you believe all those countries would have signed? Personally I believe there would have been two chances. None and sweet f**k all

They are not my leading lights, and never were. They were until a short time ago green leading lights that woke up and saw where this E.U. greening policy was taking us with unviable economically destructive policies

I told you I pay no heed to CBAM as it`s nothing much more than a paper circulating industry from an entity on carbon from a body that claims 60% of their green energy comes from burning supposedy carbon neutral biomass. Looked through that prism it really is a bit of a farce is it not ?

antoinolachtnai

A lot of generalities in your responses but never anything specific. You like criticizing people and plans.

So, what do you think the UN and the EU should do to reduce carbon emissions? Do you have anything practical to offer from your position high on the ditch?

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121552628#Comment_121552628

Not at all. I have been quite specific on the economic unviability of many green proposals. Electricity in particular where I have provided numbers that greens keep running away from. I have pointed out that the economics of this greening policy are really beginning to bite in Germany the motherland for greens, and where even green groups are now campaigning against these polices. If you want to ignore all that, that is up to you as I do not believe it is up to me to do your research for you.

The U.N. is a talking shop. 28 COP beanfeasts now and not a real legally binding agreement on anything to do with emissions. They might as well have numbered them from Paris 1 to Paris 28.

As to both E.U. (and the Irsh Green Party as well}, amusing that you are asking me for a practical plan. Especially when any plan to be practicle has to be economically viable yet greens cannot even put a price on their own proposals and want us all to play the game on here that the source of the E.U. 60% green energy is supplied by carbon neutral biomass while rattling on about CBAM. Or that slaughtering cattle here is going to make one iota of difference to emissions when the E.U. has signed an agreement to import the same, if not more meat from countries that are increasing their herd numbers as it is being supplied with by Ireland

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121550944#Comment_121550944

Ireland is blown up and what ever is left is refined and examined for potential green technologies.😅

antoinolachtnai

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121552709#Comment_121552709

So your practical proposal is For Europe to burn more coal, oil and gas and slaughter more cows?

And for the UN to stop talking about climate change?

I don’t think that would work.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121552852#Comment_121552852

Honestly the poster has no practical proposal. They posted about getting Sinn Fein into government until I pointed out Sinn Fein plan was for more renewables and not less. that was a blow.

All the anti environment people are the same, no plans. Just waffle on it's terrible what is happening and it's all "dA GrEeN pArTy" fault.

Thread is just turned into an anti Green Party waffle by a few posters who seem totally unaware that every party in Ireland has a Green Agenda.

Plus the nonsense about nuclear and still they can't answer two questions. Which parties in Ireland are supporting nuclear? and which location in Ireland is willing to have a nuclear plant slapped into it?

As I pointed out, the only live thread on Christmas day on government was this one and the anti environment mob on it waffling about how terrible it is to have clean air.

patnor1011

UN will never stop talking about anything. Talking is all they do since it is generally just talking shop with a lot of talk which does not amount to anything tangible in reality because a handful of big countries hold a veto and torpedo each other on everything they can. The rest of the countries are downgraded to spectators. A destination serving as audience for politicians who could not make it big back home anymore or were in a way of someone else. The likes of Al Gore or John Kerry who found second calling after they failed in their presidential bid. We have sent some of our experts that way too.

Aside from it being practical it looks that Europe will indeed burn more coal, oil and gas anyway as will developing world since we all need cheap energy. This cheap energy may provide funds necessary to build some more of wind and solar where needed or practical. There is no other way, those things will not grow itself like mushrooms after the rain.

Europe actually imported more of Russian fossil fuels than before, all that all of the sanctions managed to do is to make it about 2x more expensive since it is coming from India and China. Cost EU quite a few jobs in the process as we do not import it raw but already processed and EU refineries lost in the process. But all is OK we no longer burn russian oil and gas since it is now Indian and Chinese. Heck, even USA and other fossil fuel exporters are buying Russian stuff because it is cheap and it can be sold to us for very good money.

machiavellianme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121552852#Comment_121552852

So what do you think will work?

After 3 pages of questions about boardsie's interactions with MEPs, legality of agreements and other distractions, we get to the hub of the matter. What do you think is the answer and how much will it cost?

antoinolachtnai

You are calling for a radical change of direction.

It’s up to you to make a proposal as to what the change of direction should be.

Akrasia

It's the last day of the warmest year since records began. Looking forward to next year, 2024 which will also probably be the warmest year since records began.

"May you live in interesting times"

roosterman71

https://twitter.com/PendulumFlow/status/1741185857883967545

This would back up some of the assertions that manufacturing in Germany is moving away from Germany. Good news for emissions I guess. Every cloud and all that.

In the Summer Sweden dropped it's 100% renewable goal, instead focusing on "100% fossil free"

https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/sweden-dumps-renewables-target-as-it-seeks-more-nuclear-power-20230629-p5dkae.html

Spain meanwhile are doing the opposite and shutting down nuclear

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/spain-confirms-nuclear-power-phase-out-extends-renewable-projects-deadlines-2023-12-27/

It's as if all these countries don't know the best way to approach things and the different lobby groups are doing better/worse depending on the jurisdiction

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121553380#Comment_121553380

Far from interesting, its been a dull and non descript weather year. Only reason its the warmest is due lack of cold weather on either end of the year to bring the average down. A crappy wet summer, mild temperatures and plenty of cloud cover acting as an insulation blanket keeping us at a balmy 11c average.

paddyisreal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121553380#Comment_121553380

Considering accurate weather records only go back about 150 years it's not much to go on really. Even paloeclimate records can only go back 100,00 years and are totally inaccurate. Not much data to go on considering the world is a couple of billion years old. I do love the way the greens claim to follow the science bit ignore this. Anyway see Eamon was reading his tarot cards and is predicting more storms and warm weather by god he's the new Nostradamus. I do wonder could he tell us how many seats they will end up with at the end of this year..

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121553346#Comment_121553346

Huh? Moving away from cheap, reliable generation to intermittent unreliable generation is the very definition of a radical change of direction. Yet, nobody has the first clue how it's going to be achieved or what it will cost.

The proposed changes to regulations here will kill any further FDI and in the next couple of years we'll see more and more multinationals pivot from Ireland to countries that can actually provide a stable reliable power grid without the need to all sorts of crazy add-ons like demand flexibility of 30-50% of total load while not being allowed use any form of fossil fuel to bridge the gap.

We had a good run from the early 90's until now but a mixture of incompetence and government policy have put that to bed.

antoinolachtnai

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121553497#Comment_121553497

The current energy policy at Irish and EU level is the orthodoxy of energy policy for the last 15 years.

You want to make a change, which is fair enough, but you can’t tell us what your alternative proposal is for decarbonising the energy system.

Where or what is the policy that prevents fossil fuels from being used in Ireland? Someone should tell the energy sector because there are gas plants being built all over the place.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121553560#Comment_121553560

That's incorrect. EU policy allows NG to be used as a bridging fuel. Our own minister and regulator have determined no new gas connections are to be provided to LEUs and any bridging generation will need to be 100% renewable. We have no NG storage facilities to ensure security of supply. Converting moneypoint to CCGT would be infinitely more cost effective than trying to turn into an Offshore wind hub but this won't be allowed to happen.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121551375#Comment_121551375

You've posted repeatedly that the Paris Agreement is "legally binding" on Ireland. You've been asked multiple times what exactly are the legal ramifications for Ireland for non-compliance, if its legally binding.

Given you've ignored these repeatedly its a pretty reasonable assessment that you're afraid to admit there are none, ie its not remotely legally binding.

Which is a pretty great example of just how Green politicians/supporters work - tell lies to the public to scare them, and ignore reality when called out on it.

antoinolachtnai

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121553604#Comment_121553604

i don’t think you know what the term means. Ireland pretty much has to abide by the agreement because of how the EU countries’ commitments are pooled together.

But I have said all this before.

if you have some idea for improving on the Paris Agreement, let’s have it. Given you’ve been asked for this repeatedly and ignored it it’s a pretty reasonable assessment you’re afraid to admit you have none, ie you are just criticising from the ditch and have nothing much to contribute.

Red Silurian

Does anybody on here know if the buses are running to a regular timetable this evening? In the past the buses would finish on new year's eve at 7 or 8 O clock... A great green idea

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121553804#Comment_121553804

That's nothing to do with any green ideals and everything to do with yet another semi-state failing in its core duties, which is to provide public transport rather than feathering the nests of employees.

Blut2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121553781#Comment_121553781

Another reply with not a single legal ramification for Ireland for non-compliance listed, and desperate attempts to muddy the water to distract from this.

It'd be funny if it wasn't so tragic. This attitude/behaviour is exactly why the Greens are facing electoral wipeout in the next election.

It must be very frustrating when people here, and the Irish electorate in general, keep asking for pesky things like "facts" that upset and expose your false narrative.