Former FG Taoiseach's son's links to extreme right wing sect

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007220#Comment_118007220

<Snip> FF/FG also presided over the era when the economy was so bad your dad had to work 60 hours a week to get rode by Revenue and pay 18% on his mortgage and the Church ruled the roost etc!

Personal dig removed

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007286#Comment_118007286

Ah yes, Risteard the dissident republican. I remember you from politics.ie. Well, at least you're consistent, I will give you that.

Risteard81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009582#Comment_118009582

Just a Republican actually.

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118007391#Comment_118007391

FG'ers like to talk SF when FG'ers are shown up. Pretty common on every thread.

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118003726#Comment_118003726

Politics would be the ultimate goal I imagine. The church was always political. Anyone looking to colour society is IMO.

The former chair of the Fine Gael youth wing and son of former Taoiseach is worth a mention. Especially considering FG's far right roots.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009788#Comment_118009788

Sinn Fein was mentioned on the thread in the first post by the OP, hence why the discussion has always included SF.

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009829#Comment_118009829

The OP was justifying talking on politicians family members. The thread is about the former chair of Fine Gael's youth wing and his connections to the far right.

If I've no interest in a topic I don't visit the thread. Pretty simple. The only conclusion to be drawn is people coming in to deflect off topic.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118002769#Comment_118002769

In a way its not that odd given his Father and Mother are both fairly conservative catholics. I could see how a conservative catholic could end up down this road.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009817#Comment_118009817

At a leadership level probably. But for the ordinary joe in the pew, which is all Bruton is/was AFAIK, I don't think there's any inevitability that they will be politically active in a way informed by their religious beliefs. Indeed this kind of hardline religious belief can lead one in a politically quiestist direction, say by joining an enclosed order.

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009788#Comment_118009788

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009739#Comment_118009739

Ok, you're a republican. I would acknowledge that the expression 'dissident Republican' carries negative connotations. Risteard, as I said, your consistency is admirable, but it is not supported by the vast majority of people in this country. Does that not tell you something?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009788#Comment_118009788

OP talked SF. Makes it fair game.

If he hadn't attempted to play the victim card, it wouldn't have been such a laugh, so thanks to him.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118009928#Comment_118009928

The comparison ben made was between Liam Adams and this guy. Now I could list out the numerous numerous issues between the two but I think you can work it out.

The main one would be Liam Adam even when sent to Republic to hide from the police was still an active member in SF and was going to try and get into the Dail. This guy is not active in the FG party and a member of the youth party 10+year ago

It is totally ridiculous comparison.

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012988#Comment_118012988

Nope. The comparison made was regarding speaking on family members of prominent politicians. End of.

You are in here to deflect and muddy the waters for 'former FG Taoiseach's son's links to extreme right wing sect'.

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118012989#Comment_118012989

Nope. As above you are just here to play defence for Fine Gael and deflect or shut down the conversation as laid out in the thread title. It's very clear. Instead of discussing it you are here to make it another of your shinner rants. You are transparent on this and have no credibility.

A prominent politician's son and former chair of the Fine Gael youth wing is associated with a far right sect.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013591#Comment_118013591

Liam Adams was an active member of SF. He was running for the Dail in Louth with the backing of SF members.

10 years after Gerry was aware of what he had done. Plenty of pictures of Liam with Gerry etc.

The OP made the comparison as if an active member of SF who raped his daughter should now mean that all TD's families are open to online discussions.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118002091#Comment_118002091

Was there a response to this question?

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013754#Comment_118013754

No....

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013615#Comment_118013615

The OP compared the two situations and claimed that SF were treated worse. And the response he got was that was correct for obvious reasons. I didn't bring Liam Adams or SF into the conversation - the OP did.

The membership of a politician's son in a fringe nonentity of an organisation is completely irrelevant. The covering up of a relative's child abuse is.

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118013722#Comment_118013722

So what? Not a shinner thread.

This is a thread about a former FG Taoiseach's son's link to a far right sect. He was also head of the Fine Gael youth wing. You don't become chair by having a passing interest. Speaks to FG that such people gravitate towards it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014182#Comment_118014182

The reference was to justify speaking on a politician's family member. You are dishonestly using that as a jumping point for just another rant off topic to deflect for the right and far right associated with Fine Gael. You should really read the thread title. If you've no interest I can only assume you are here to shut it down because of the uncomfortable topic regarding Fine Gael and the far right mentality.

It would be completely irrelevant were it not the thread topic.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014220#Comment_118014220

This whole thread is dishonest. The OP said he didn't like to talk about TD's families and then use Liam Adams as the reason why.

Liam was an active member of SF and was trying to be a TD.

John Bruton son has very little to nothing to do with FG. His father is an exTD so not even in the current government

Its just grubby tabloid rubbish story, no idea why it needs to be shared on boards. As I said on other threads the lack of celebrities in Ireland seems to mean people are filling the void with TD's. What next people running around after TDs kids trying to get a story to share online?

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014308#Comment_118014308

It peaked your interest. If you don't think it should be on boards talk to the moderators. You are not the boards police.

It speaks to the party personality. We recently had the president of the Fine Gael youth wing attend a GOP trump love in over in the US. It's an interesting warning that should be noted and heeded.

dudley72

Edit

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014352#Comment_118014352

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014220#Comment_118014220

"The reference was to justify speaking on a politician's family member."

Yes, we got that, and we went on to examine how and why one might justify speaking on a politician's family member.

It has yet to be explained how and why John Bruton's son's membership of an organisation reflects on FG subsequent to him leaving FG?

For example, many people around have condemned Mairia Cahill for her membership of a dissident group which was subsequent to her leaving SF. I suppose we should condemn SF for Mairia Cahill's links with dissidents as well as FG for John Bruton's son's membership of whatever this organisation is?

This really is a great example of how a thread has fallen flat on its face for an OP.

By the way, a really good discussion could be had around the questions that SF still have to answer about Liam Adams.

Fionn1952

Worst kind of hypocrisy on show as usual in here from the very same folk who harp on reminding everyone that it's a SF thread when any comparison is made, no matter how relevant it might be. Saw the title, saw the most recent poster.....predicted it before I clicked on it.

Must get tedious looking for Shinners under the bed every night.

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014801#Comment_118014801

You should be ashamed of yourself using Maria Cahill once again because of an uncomfortable FG subject. It's really disgraceful IMO.

John Bruton's son, former chair of the Fine Gael youth wing is connected to a far right sect. Here's a compassion, a thread about a SF party member calling around to another SF party member. Was a sinister scandal made up where the person in question had to come out herself and say it wasn't sinister. While FG O'Neil blackmailed a YFG to not run for council was hand waved away.

I think John Bruton's son, former chair of the Fine Gael youth wing being connected to a far right sect is worth a thread, if you don't that's okay.

StupidLikeAFox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014888#Comment_118014888

Lol - "must get tedious looking for shinners under the bed" - the whole thread is a swipe at fine gael based on the actions of a guy whose father was leader of fine gael 20+ years ago.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015153#Comment_118015153

Yet people are filling their time coming in to talk about anything but. Hit a nerve anyway.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015153#Comment_118015153

I didn't say it wasn't (though many of the same posters I'm talking about in the Shinner threads are constantly on about the Provos despite the GFA being even further back, so I'm not sure that's as stout a defense of their position as you think).

....either way, does that mean the folks constantly harping that, 'this is the SF thread' on those threads aren’t demonstrably hypocritical?!

As with many posts like this, my position isn't a defense of SF (I think they're about as much use as a chocolate teapot), but rather an expression of frustration at the discussion stifling hypocrisy of a small group of posters who would likely try and drag SF into a thread on the fecking Eurovision Song Contest.

dotsman

Wow, this country really is so left wing. Someone's son has right wing views - and this is news????

Can you imagine if they ran a story about every single person who had joined a left wing org? 😆

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015359#Comment_118015359

One would imagine that the anti-semitism and holocaust denial are more of note than the broad church that is, 'right wing views'.

If holocaust denial and anti-semitism are your idea of reasonable right wing views to hold, I'm not surprised you think this country (a pretty centrist one by any reasonable measure) is, 'so left wing'. The further to the edges you push yourself, the more centrist politics seem like they're on the other side.

Beasty

We seem to have established the individual in question is not an active member of any political party. Stick to the topic, and do not bring any more party politics into it. If that means the thread is dead then so be it

Any questions PM me - do not respond to this post in thread

Shebean

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015383#Comment_118015383

I think it's interesting to look into what values drive such people in that direction.

Nothing wrong with being right wing of course. Insular, me first politics can attract a similar sort but they generally don't go on to treat groups of people as less than, besides the poor of course 😉

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015383#Comment_118015383

But the anti-jewish sentiment is just as strong on the far left, and far more active.

Nor do I find them "reasonable views" for the right wing. In fact, I don't consider any far right views reasonable.

But, as some who holds relatively centrist views, I have to laugh at your description of this country as "pretty centrist". One only has to look at the major headlines of the last few days to see that. Likewise this news story/thread and my previous comment. Nobody bats an eyelid when someone they have never heard of subscribes to far left views. Hell, such people even get elected to councils and even Dail Eireann.

You are possibly correct in saying you have pushed yourself out to the edge if you hold such views.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015605#Comment_118015605

Hold on, I didn't defend anti-semitism from the left....you came in moaning that it was somehow it was unreasonable for people to criticise the anti-semitism expressed by the subject of the original post. I'm pretty comfortable criticising anti-semitism wherever it comes from.....I don't need to get precious about defending, 'the left' or criticising, 'the right'....I don't need whataboutery to think it is pretty sh*tty....and firmly believing that criticising f*cking holocaust denial isn't a blanket criticism of all left OR right wing politics like you seem to have white knighted in with.

By any reasonable definition, Ireland has centrist politics. We're no more Castro's Cuba than we are Mussoloni's Italy.

If you genuinely think we're a left wing country because of a few newspaper headlines, you're not half as centrist as you think you are.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015726#Comment_118015726

I don't feel the right wing are being picked on. Where did I say that, or even imply it? I'm just pointing out how left wing Ireland is that this is a big story when we have the far left involved in every level of our society, even Dail Eireann, and probably the next government.

Extremists an either wings actually have a lot more in common than they do with the centre. Both would be conservative, and protectionist but neither would be considered "social". As for the right wanting to keep what is theirs, the left are all about wanting what is not theirs:)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015754#Comment_118015754

Where did I moan? I merely pointed out how left wing this country is that a single guy who nobody had ever heard about has right wing views is making such a big story when we have tonnes of far-left people who we tolerate and even elect to office.

Ireland has far-left, left-wing, centre-left and a little centre views represented at the political level. It does not have centre-right (other than a few who may be regarding social issues), right wing and especially not far-right views. If you can't see that then, as you said, you have pushed yourself too close to the edge.

As for the headlines, that is simply a reference to looking at what is happening in Ireland and you will see, far-left, left and centre-left views dominate.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015991#Comment_118015991

This whole section reads like you feel the left get an easier time of it:

But, as some who holds relatively centrist views, I have to laugh at your description of this country as "pretty centrist". One only has to look at the major headlines of the last few days to see that. Likewise this news story/thread and my previous comment. Nobody bats an eyelid when someone they have never heard of subscribes to far left views. Hell, such people even get elected to councils and even Dail Eireann.

You seem to have issues with what you define as the left:

As for the right wanting to keep what is theirs, the left are all about wanting what is not theirs:)

The thread is about a far right, anti-semetic holocaust denier, with previous links to YFG. As a centerist, all you've done is play it down and deflect to the left for some reason.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015991#Comment_118015991

The issue is clearly that you define, 'the left' from a centre point based on your own views. For the entire post independence history of this country, we've had economically centrist, socially centre-right politics via FF or FG. Given that we've had centre right governance for a century, it is quite natural that more leftist opposition voices would come to the fray.

We have never had an outright left wing government in this country, and if you think we have it betrays an awful lot about where your allegedly centrist politics actually lie. Possibly understandable if you view politics through an Americanised looking glass, but in a European context absolutely ridiculous.

dotsman

This whole section reads like you feel the left get an easier time of it:

Damn right!. I knew you'd get there ;)

For the entire post independence history of this country, we've had economically centrist, socially centre-right politics via FF or FG

Wow. There is so much wrong with that sentence, I have no idea where to even begin.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118016270#Comment_118016270

How about beginning from the start then so?

You seem to believe that holocaust denial is reasonable right wing politics, so I'll be surprised if we find a meeting ground, but I'm all ears.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118016284#Comment_118016284

Well, we're not going to get anywhere when you keep reversing my statements.

Nor do I find them "reasonable views" for the right wing. In fact, I don't consider any far right views reasonable.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118016395#Comment_118016395

So please do tell me why you landed into the thread claiming that criticism of holocaust denial and anti-semitism was just an example of people getting outraged about someone's son having right wing views?

Let me be clear again, right wing views are fine.....anti-semitism and holocaust denial aren't. Why you felt the need to wade in and defend anti-semitism and holocaust denial while positioning anyone who opposes those views as leftists, I don't have a clue.

Perhaps it might be understandable if what happened was you didn't really read the thread, just wanted to have a generic lash out at what you perceive as, 'the left' and now you've realised that what you were ACTUALLY defending is holocaust denial, you've got a little embarrassed by that and doubled down on whinging about the left to deflect, hoping that no one will notice what you were actually defending. THAT I'd understand, I'll give a free pass. If you're genuinely of the opinion that complaining about holocaust denial is just, 'leftism' though, well I don't think the conversation is worth continuing, mein freund.

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005572#Comment_118005572

I've given FG plenty of votes over the years and certainly won't be stopping just because Bruton's son is a nutter. When I was coming of age in the early 80's and trying to figure out my own politics, Fianna Fail were the backward reactionaries tacitly opposing divorce and cosying up to the Catholic Church while Garret Fitzgerald's FG were trying to liberalise the country (and yeah, I know the first abortion referendum was under his term as Taoiseach - not one of their finer moments.) How many Fianna Failers and their offspring would you care to guess are closet Opus Dei supporting loons?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118016270#Comment_118016270

Not trying to catch you out just trying to understand your centrist views and criticism of 'the left' in a thread about a right winger.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118016570#Comment_118016570

As we have seen in the UK, anti-semitism and holocaust denial are not just right-wing failures.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018127#Comment_118018127

I don't see how this is an argument against anything I've said, Blanch?

The poster I responded to was stating that people were just moaning about Matthew Bruton because he holds right wing views. I actually posted in defense of normal right wing views stating that the criticism is and should be of his holocaust denial and anti-semitism, not because he holds conservative views.

This isn't a thread about Labour Party in the UK though, so I didn't feel the need to include the whataboutery about the left in my post.....I didn't think it was particularly relevant. My post was a criticism of anti-semitisim and holocaust denial, not a tit-for-tat left vs right analysis.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018186#Comment_118018186

Then we are in agreement.

However, we should remember that it is only alleged that Matthew Bruton holds anti-semitic and holocaust denial views. They have been ascribed to him rather than coming from him.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018203#Comment_118018203

While not as absolute as a conviction in a court of law for example, my own personal opinion would be that someone who joins a group which preaches anti-semitism and denies the holocaust would be a likely candidate for anti-semitism and holocaust denial.

Much as I wouldn't join a Rangers supporters club or sign up to an An Phoblacht subscription, I wouldn't expect too many people who don't hold anti-semitic views to join groups that do so explicitly.

You can judge a man by the company he keeps as they say. A view I'd imagine you share yourself given many of your own posts.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018263#Comment_118018263

From the link in the OP:

"Matthew then issued a statement saying he did not condone the extreme views contained in the social media accounts. ‘For clarity, I do not hold any anti-Semitic, racist or homophobic views nor do I condone any such views expressed by others,’ the statement reads. ‘My involvement with this group came about only because of my religious beliefs as a traditional Catholic.’"

The whole thing reads as if Matthew is some kind of troubled individual rather than a holocaust denier.

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118016724#Comment_118016724

You seem to be mistaking me for a Fianna Fail supporter which I am certainly not. I would actually admire a lot of what Garret's FG stood for and the way he moved, or tried to move, FG towards social democracy in the 1980s. But Varadkar (and before him, albeit to a lesser extent, Kenny) has specifically repudiated Fitzgerald's policies. He even made a speech dissing Fitzgerald. The majority of FG leaders before and since Garret have been right wing (note, I am not implying any of them were right wing in racist or antisemitic sense).

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018309#Comment_118018309

Aye, but that falls firmly in the, 'well he would say that, wouldn't he?' camp for me.

Like I said, I'm hardly going to end up a member of the Rangers supporters club just because of my enjoyment of soccer.

The group in question aren't just a Christian advocacy group and I'd find it hard to believe but at least plausible that someone could come across them and be oblivious to what they are.....but to go ahead and join them without knowing? Well that just stretches the limits of incredulity beyond me.

Perhaps he is a holocaust denier and came out with a statement predictably denying it, perhaps he isn't personally a holocaust denier, but he was at least willing to overlook the group's holocaust denial. Either way it doesn't reflect well on him.

I don't think it reflects on current FG much at all in fairness though.