Former FG Taoiseach's son's links to extreme right wing sect

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118016395#Comment_118016395

So please do tell me why you landed into the thread claiming that criticism of holocaust denial and anti-semitism was just an example of people getting outraged about someone's son having right wing views?

Let me be clear again, right wing views are fine.....anti-semitism and holocaust denial aren't. Why you felt the need to wade in and defend anti-semitism and holocaust denial while positioning anyone who opposes those views as leftists, I don't have a clue.

Perhaps it might be understandable if what happened was you didn't really read the thread, just wanted to have a generic lash out at what you perceive as, 'the left' and now you've realised that what you were ACTUALLY defending is holocaust denial, you've got a little embarrassed by that and doubled down on whinging about the left to deflect, hoping that no one will notice what you were actually defending. THAT I'd understand, I'll give a free pass. If you're genuinely of the opinion that complaining about holocaust denial is just, 'leftism' though, well I don't think the conversation is worth continuing, mein freund.

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118005572#Comment_118005572

I've given FG plenty of votes over the years and certainly won't be stopping just because Bruton's son is a nutter. When I was coming of age in the early 80's and trying to figure out my own politics, Fianna Fail were the backward reactionaries tacitly opposing divorce and cosying up to the Catholic Church while Garret Fitzgerald's FG were trying to liberalise the country (and yeah, I know the first abortion referendum was under his term as Taoiseach - not one of their finer moments.) How many Fianna Failers and their offspring would you care to guess are closet Opus Dei supporting loons?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118016270#Comment_118016270

Not trying to catch you out just trying to understand your centrist views and criticism of 'the left' in a thread about a right winger.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118016570#Comment_118016570

As we have seen in the UK, anti-semitism and holocaust denial are not just right-wing failures.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018127#Comment_118018127

I don't see how this is an argument against anything I've said, Blanch?

The poster I responded to was stating that people were just moaning about Matthew Bruton because he holds right wing views. I actually posted in defense of normal right wing views stating that the criticism is and should be of his holocaust denial and anti-semitism, not because he holds conservative views.

This isn't a thread about Labour Party in the UK though, so I didn't feel the need to include the whataboutery about the left in my post.....I didn't think it was particularly relevant. My post was a criticism of anti-semitisim and holocaust denial, not a tit-for-tat left vs right analysis.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018186#Comment_118018186

Then we are in agreement.

However, we should remember that it is only alleged that Matthew Bruton holds anti-semitic and holocaust denial views. They have been ascribed to him rather than coming from him.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018203#Comment_118018203

While not as absolute as a conviction in a court of law for example, my own personal opinion would be that someone who joins a group which preaches anti-semitism and denies the holocaust would be a likely candidate for anti-semitism and holocaust denial.

Much as I wouldn't join a Rangers supporters club or sign up to an An Phoblacht subscription, I wouldn't expect too many people who don't hold anti-semitic views to join groups that do so explicitly.

You can judge a man by the company he keeps as they say. A view I'd imagine you share yourself given many of your own posts.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018263#Comment_118018263

From the link in the OP:

"Matthew then issued a statement saying he did not condone the extreme views contained in the social media accounts. ‘For clarity, I do not hold any anti-Semitic, racist or homophobic views nor do I condone any such views expressed by others,’ the statement reads. ‘My involvement with this group came about only because of my religious beliefs as a traditional Catholic.’"

The whole thing reads as if Matthew is some kind of troubled individual rather than a holocaust denier.

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118016724#Comment_118016724

You seem to be mistaking me for a Fianna Fail supporter which I am certainly not. I would actually admire a lot of what Garret's FG stood for and the way he moved, or tried to move, FG towards social democracy in the 1980s. But Varadkar (and before him, albeit to a lesser extent, Kenny) has specifically repudiated Fitzgerald's policies. He even made a speech dissing Fitzgerald. The majority of FG leaders before and since Garret have been right wing (note, I am not implying any of them were right wing in racist or antisemitic sense).

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018309#Comment_118018309

Aye, but that falls firmly in the, 'well he would say that, wouldn't he?' camp for me.

Like I said, I'm hardly going to end up a member of the Rangers supporters club just because of my enjoyment of soccer.

The group in question aren't just a Christian advocacy group and I'd find it hard to believe but at least plausible that someone could come across them and be oblivious to what they are.....but to go ahead and join them without knowing? Well that just stretches the limits of incredulity beyond me.

Perhaps he is a holocaust denier and came out with a statement predictably denying it, perhaps he isn't personally a holocaust denier, but he was at least willing to overlook the group's holocaust denial. Either way it doesn't reflect well on him.

I don't think it reflects on current FG much at all in fairness though.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018769#Comment_118018769

I don't disagree with most of what you said. Just that in the article he comes across as someone with issues, that maybe unfair on him.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018784#Comment_118018784

Funny how we can read things so differently....I think he comes across as manipulative, calculating and entirely all too aware in the article.

I mean anyone associated with a group like that probably has some sort of issues, but I don't believe that excuses it.

Dyr

Does anyone have any clue as to what views John Brutons sons alleged views have to do with the price of turnips in any way, shape or form?

Seems to be fairly desperate stuff from OP

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015605#Comment_118015605

I think theres a big difference between far right virulent anti semitism and siding with the Palestinian people.

John Doe1

I know nothing else of this man than the headline but I am still fairly confident he would have a stronger understanding of economics than any of the Sinn Fein charlatans.

Also, just a reminder:

Deaths because of Fascism: 18 million approx.

Deaths because of Socialism: 100 million approx.

https://medium.com/lessons-from-history/nazism-or-communism-which-ideology-killed-more-people-278ac44ab626

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018484#Comment_118018484

I wasn't making any assumptions about your politics, just trying to make the point that nutters can be found in all political parties and shades. And I have no problem with Fine Gael being right wing when it comes to economics. We had plenty of left wing spend, spend, spend, years under Fianna Fail, who bankrupted the country not once but twice in my lifetime. I have plenty of time for Varadkar's comments about the people who get up early in the morning etc. You've only to look at the amount of thuggery and anti-social behaviour in the country to see where pandering to the welfare lifestyle "I'm entitled to everything" brigade has brought us.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118021742#Comment_118021742

So to be clear, you are looking on the up side of possibly supporting a holocaust denying racist based on weighing up mass death figures and a dig at SF? The Nazis built great roads too sure 🤔 How about supporting a philosophy that doesn't involve mass murder or racism?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118023658#Comment_118023658

I think we have been through this already and shown that the man has denied being a holocaust denying racist. But you want to keep on your demented crusade.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024487#Comment_118024487

What do you mean by 'demented crusade'? Referencing he supports such a group once or twice in a thread about it?

What's you concern here?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024504#Comment_118024504

It is a demented crusade to go after a private individual in the way that you have on here for his private alleged views, that he has denied in print. This got coverage in one tabloid and nowhere else. Taking it on here has set you on a demented crusade.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024527#Comment_118024527

'your demented crusade' you said. I didn't create the thread. I've posted less than others. If you don't like the thread why bother?

I think you need to contact the moderators. Telling people they shouldn't be taking part in a discussion because you don't like it seems a bit odd to me.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024615#Comment_118024615

Never said you shouldn't be taking part in a discussion, just that your participation looks like a demented crusade. That is fair comment in my opinion. You are free to disagree so don't know why you are trying to shut me down.

Where the discussion has focussed on common links of anti-semitism between far-right and far-left, it has been interesting, but the going after a private individual has been tasteless at best.

Ten of Swords

@blanch152 and @Brucie Bonus drop it please, both of you. Let's move the thread along please

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118024639#Comment_118024639

.....much like said individual's membership of a group known for holocaust denial and anti-semitism is fairly tasteless.

I've said already that I don't think it particularly reflects in any way on current FG, but a former party member and son of a former Taoiseach isn't just your average citizen, and despite his protests to the contrary, the group in question aren't just some run of the mill Christian interest group, Blanch.

I'd warrant you wouldn't be so reluctant to discuss private citizens who were former members of certain other parties historic membership of other distasteful organisations.....though I suspect the original post in this thread was made with the same smearing intent I suspect you'd hold with the shoe on the other foot. I'd say with confidence you'd jump in with aplomb and nary a mention of the distaste of discussing private citizens so long as they were the right party to go after.