How does a man ask for a shorter working week?
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12-10-2021 8:03pm#1
Is there a stigma to men working part time? I might sound stupid but I don't really get why so many people want more and more work? What's the point in having all that extra money if you don't have the time to think about how to be efficient with it. Something like 36 hours spread over a four day week seems ideal as this gives a good work/life balance that allows time for extra curricular activities. You're still at work long enough each week to not end up taking your time off for granted, while you also get more time off so you can be more productive with the things you really care about.
When comparing a 36 hour week to a 40 hour week, I think those extra hours (that your typical worker does) can really take quite a bit of life out of you. It I think it leaves you finding yourself in situations where you arrive home and don't know what to do with yourself. And that's fine if you're the sort of person that doesn't do much with yourself anyway, but everyone's different.
If you're in a job interview it's almost assumed that one will prefer more hours. I've often been in situations where I felt that asking a potential new employer not to give me "too much work" would be a turn off to them. So I would just reluctantly go along with all the work they'd throw at me.
Please share your thoughts
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Depends on the job you interview for I guess, though I would obviously exclude you instantly for asking for "not too much work". This does not have anything to do with your gender obviously, but with attitude. Use upskilling options and get a job you actually want, instead of just working hours. Unless you want to use the extra hours to open more threads of course.
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I get where you’re coming from, apart from the last bit where you’ve often been in situations where you felt that asking a potential employer about the possibility of not giving you too much work would be a turn off for them. If that’s not the conditions under which the position was advertised, then asking to work part-time or trying to negotiate more flexible arrangements is going to be tough, and that’s not due to any stigma.
As to the question of whether there exists a stigma of men taking part-time hours in employment, the stigma exists alright, and depending upon the circumstances can manifest itself in a few different ways. It exists because men are expected to be able to provide for themselves and their families first of all, and a man working part-time or flexi-time hours isn’t likely to have the same earning capacity over his lifetime as a man working full-time.
It depends on where you’re at in life too and what else you have going on, whether you’re interested in creating a career for yourself in any given industry, or whether you just want to have enough to be able to provide for yourself and have a long weekend to do travel or whatever. Personally I’d hate the thought of a four-day week or 36 hours, clock-in, clock-out or flexi-time. That was alright in my early 20s when I was also pursuing higher education in order to advance my career prospects. I ended up doing crazy hours in my 30s, but I enjoyed it and I got great satisfaction in what I was doing, while also doing a lot of voluntary work.
In my 40’s I’ve now got the ability to negotiate with my employer about flexible working arrangements if I want them, and there have been times when I needed my employer to be flexible, and had no problem telling them I needed to jig around my schedule a bit whenever I need to. There’s still times when I might do 60-70 hours a week, there’s times when I do less.
As you said though, everyone’s different, and I do what I do because I enjoy it, and still manage to make time to spend with family or do my own thing. It’s really a question of managing your time to prioritise whatever or whoever you need to make time for.
It’s not impossible to find employment opportunities where you’re not expected to do too much work and there are opportunities to work part-time, but career prospects are generally poor, and they don’t tend to pay very well, which is important if you’re not intending on working all your life and you want to be able to put something away in savings and/or pension/retirement fund.
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It depends on your circumstances. Generally you can negotiate to part time once established in your career. It can be quite advantagous tax wise if your parthner is working also and it beings you below the €70,000 threshold for tax. Most men I know who work like this also farm or have other work thats less profitable but more rewarding on the side (renovating old house, keeping bees etc.) One couple I know earn good salaries and both negotiated part time so they have no childcare to pay. One of them works two days and the other three. Men do negotiate it but after they’ve established their career generally. There is a stigma but thats fairly easily sorted if you make it clear that you are still working on your days off from your salaried job. In my experience people / family assume you’re available to help out to clear gutters or do any random job. Be clear that you’re renovating, minding your bees, have the kids, feeding cattle or whatever you have lined up for non-salaried time. After a while people get used to it and then they think you get loads done that they don’t. As you do when they’re in the day job. My brother works three and a half days (late 30’s). Its the best desicion he ever made. Just make sure it’ll work out for you financially.
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Just ask op.
I used to work a lot of overtime and now I work a 4 day week.
I was speaking to an accountant friend and he pointed out to me that working a 4 day week was only losing half the money because the tax man was getting the other half anyway.
He also pointed out to me how much I was actually paying in tax on my overtime. Over half of it.
So I just told them i wasnt doing overtime anymore. Though they resisted it, my quality of life improved dramatically straight away.
About 6 months later i decided to ask for a 4 day week. And they said no.
The same friend advised me to get a list of all the women who went on to 3 day and 4 day weeks over the past few years and a list of all the men.
There were no men on the list and 14 women on it.
So I went to them with this list and said "Can you please send me the answer to this question in writing. How come all these WOMEN can go on a 4 day week and me, a MAN is not allowed to?".
The next day they let me go to a 4 day week.
I really dont notice the difference in money, but i do notice the difference in stress and quality of life.
I feel my job burned me out and I am even planning on quitting as soon as this whole covid thing is over and traveling for a few years.
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I could see myself doing that but without the list. I could see myself saying "if I were to make a list of all the women out there who are on part time, I think there's be quite a lot". I'd have assumed that if one was to actually go and make a list that it would be too try hard and might work against me. In fact I would have probably tried and avoid the word 'woman' altogether, and asked "why are these 14 people on part time?". But anyway, what you did worked for you so go on you.
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It was always clear where I worked that there was a sexist element to going on a shorter week.
So I was advided to point that out, without mentioning it directly. So their only reply options were either. "Only women are allowed to work a shorter week here", or "Go ahead and work a shorter week". And if they had chosen option a, then the evidence was already sitting in fron of them that it was sexist and might come back and bite them.
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In some companies a shorter week is a written option sometimes with catches like after X years of employment. Other companies don't have a formal policy.
It depends on your manager, workload and if they really need you.
Some downsides to working 4 days
Your pension may be 20% less, or your employer contributions may be 20% less.
You may be taking up to a 20% pay cut, but as you say more likely 10%.
Your annual leave days will go down by 20%.
If you pick a Monday you can make a lot of 3 day weekends, but if you factor in Monday bank holidays you get for free, then you don't get as many days off as you think. If you take Fridays your employer may be more happy, but less bank holidays on Fridays. If you take mid week, then hard to book short breaks away.
Some people with flexi time can claim 1 day flexi per week, so 4 days of 10 hours per week, but it's not common with flexi time. Some flexi systems allow max one extra day off every 4 weeks etc. Some do not allow to build up any extra time.
In some companies you can take a year off after 5 years employment and be guaranteed a job on return, but maybe not exact same job nor manager.
If your company has a HR website you can investigate some of the options or rules before formally requesting anything. You might want to have a trial period to see if you are only given 4 days work, not 5 days to do in 4, or if you can't live on lower wage etc. I am all for 4 days versus just racking up hours until clock out time. I have worked 7 days, even 21 days straight, so I know burnout is real. You should try make the most of your time off, but also not overdo it.
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