Hospital issued invoice 16 months after cancelled appointment

tdf7187

I received an invoice for a consultants fee from June 2020. The appointment did not take place and I did not cancel within the required 48 hours because my phone went kaput on literally the morning of the appointment and I had no other IT or phone access at that time (it being during lockdown, there were no face-to-face appointments for outpatients). They have a fee appeals procedure and I appealed the fee on this basis at the time and heard nothing for over and a year, and therefore assumed the appeal had been agreed.

I have just recently received the invoice again and it appears the appeal was not granted, though they never communicated this to me. Can anyone advise as to what is the legal status here given their failure to communicate regarding the appeal and re-issuing the invoice so long after the appointment?

Dav010

The legal status is that they can charge you for your failure to attend/cancel your appointment.

See the “cancelling a service” paragraph in relation to appointments, a dental appointment is used as an example but this applies equally to a Doctors appointment.

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/contracts-and-services/contracts-and-services/

In reality they are unlikely to chase you for the fee, but many consultants/private hospitals will not give you another appointment until the fee is paid in full.

3102derek

you say your phone when kaput the morning of the appointment.

Even if you managed cancelled the morning of the appointment, you are still too late.

you needed to give 48hrs notice, so even if you managed to call them on the morning, you were still too late.

Sounds like you have to pay for not following the agreement.

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118014864#Comment_118014864

I dont have the funds but even if I did wouldnt pay it on principle due to the inordinate delay in invoicing. When i was in the hospital as an inpatient they broke my headphones when moving my stuff which i didnt make an issue of at the time but seeing as they are chasing me for a disputed fee from ages ago i might as well bring it into the dispute.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015508#Comment_118015508

They have 6 yrs legally during which to issue a valid invoice, it’s hardly an inordinate delay on which to make a principled stand. Just be honest, you don’t want to pay for the appointment you didn’t attend and prevented someone else who may have been waiting from using.

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015523#Comment_118015523

That is not correct.

Darc19

They issued the invoice in good time.

You appealing it does not cancel any invoice.

You have now received a further demand to pay your invoice by being resent your invoice.

It is fully valid.

They will probably send it to debt collectors who will hound you and probably issue proceedings adding a further €100+ of standard court costs.

You could plead inability to pay and see if they would reduce it. But it is 100% valid and it will follow you.

L1011

For the average price of a consultants visit, its "almost certainly won't" rather than "probably" for court proceedings. Not worth it under four figures. Doesn't make it go away.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118016031#Comment_118016031

From experience of sending these out and phoning patients to inform them of the charge for missed appointments, they most likely are not expecting it to be paid nor, as you said is it worth going after the person for the fee. They are a “PFO, do not contact us again” letter from the consultant/Hospital, if the person does try and make an appointment, the details show up on their system and the person will have to pay before they get another appointment.

Caranica

Thread title is misleading, the appointment was not cancelled, you failed to attend. Thus preventing the appointment from being reassigned to someone else who was waiting. The invoice is legitimately due.

magicbastarder

as another poster pointed out, your grounds for appeal makes no sense in terms of the 48 hour cancellation period, but i suppose it just boils down to how much expectation there is that technical issues are yours to sort out, if they're left with an empty slot which is too late to fill.

SteM

So the hospital were requesting a phone or zoom consult but your phone went down on that morning and because it was during lockdown you couldn't attend. If that's what happened it sounds like your appeal should have had some merit, it's very harsh to turn it down imo. Not everyone has the resources to sort issues like this out very quickly.

rock22

Is this a public hospital?

I have never been invoiced for virtual appointments during the Covid Lockdown.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118017547#Comment_118017547

As it the responsibility of the patient to attend the appointment they made, this appeal has about as much merit as “my car wouldn’t start” or “I missed the bus”.

Jim_Hodge

You failed to attend. You got an invoice but appealed it thus delaying the invoicing process. You owe the money. All this 'they'll not bring in debt collectors' or 'they probably don't expect to be paid' is rubbish. You have a debt so pay it.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118017573#Comment_118017573

If someone's car doesn't start they can get taxi. If they miss a bus they could hail a taxi or ask a friend for a lift. If someone's mobile breaks, it was 2 months into a pandemic and we were discouraged from mixing with other households, I feel that's a different scenario to the ones you outlined.

I think that during lockdown, if everything happened as the OP said it should have been taken into account. If his mobile was the only form of communication and he lost that method of communication it should be taken into account by the appeals team.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118017598#Comment_118017598

Yes they could, there is a multitude of ways to overcome challenges like this, and yet Clinics hear them all the time as excuses why appointments are missed. It was taken into account apparently, and discounted. If the op couldn’t “attend” the appointment, that is unfortunate, it happens, but that does not mean they shouldn’t be charged for it.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118017618#Comment_118017618

Care to mention the multitude of ways this could have been resolved at the time?

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118017620#Comment_118017620

That’s not my responsibility, only the op would know how easy or difficult it would have been to use another device.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118017598#Comment_118017598

Get real. There are more means of communication than a mobile phone and it only broke that day - he was late cancelling anyway.

Figerty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118015508#Comment_118015508

What Principle?

"a fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behaviour or for a chain of reasoning."

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118017674#Comment_118017674

He wouldn't have had to cancel if the phone the consultant was due to call him on hadn't broken that morning. I can't understand why he raised that point in the OP. However, if the hospital was due to call him on a number that day and the phone went down that morning then the number they had for him wasn't working and he couldn't contact them to tell them that. I have sympathy for him in that situation and would expect understanding from the hospital.

You say there are more means of communications - there might be for you and me but maybe not for him. I know that my brother lives alone and has a mobile phone. If that phone is broken then he's uncontactable. He would ask a friend to use their mobile or go to a shop to get it fixed but he wouldn't have either 2 months into the pandemic for sure.

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118017583#Comment_118017583

I don't have the funds to pay it. Seeing as they couldn't be bothered re-issuing the invoice until 16 months later, I couldn't be bothered paying it until September 2023 (at that stage I turn 50 and can access some pension funds).

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118017674#Comment_118017674

You misunderstand the situation. I wasn't late cancelling - I didn't cancel at all because I planned to do the appointment. The phone literally went kaput the morning of the appointment - Murphy's law in action. All of this was explained to the psychiatrist during a subsequent discussion, which is why I particularly resent them chasing me for the funds at this point.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018837#Comment_118018837

About 20% of hospital appointments are no shows, soyou can imagine what that does to the waiting lists for appointments.

I'm disappointed the civil service is not following you to pay because in doing so they are encouraging no shows.

But then what else is new, civil service never mind wasting our money

tdf7187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018978#Comment_118018978

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118017735#Comment_118017735

It's a private hospital. But interesting that you make the assumption it is public. You probably have assumed that because I have mental health issues I should not be entitled to private hospital. Typical far right boards poster.

SteM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018998#Comment_118018998

You may be misquoting me, I never assumed public or private.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018837#Comment_118018837

They won’t follow you for this, just find another Hospital/Consultant for treatment, and don’t expect a free pass next time.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118018998#Comment_118018998

I was waiting for three months for my last private appointment. Like that. you're the one jumping to wrong conclusions.

All the more reason why you should pay it now