GAA need to step up

Miniegg

Nothing to do with Unionism or Protestantism or sectarianism, but one problem I do have with the GAA and some of it's members is that it does trade a bit too much on being the "Irish" game, and amateur - being a bit elitist toward people who play other, primarily British sports. Who cares what sport you play as long as you are getting something out of it? Hurling and G football are exciting and enticing enough without depending on trading on the "play it because it's Irish" card. I wouldn't deem this sectarian though...

There is a story - most definitely untrue - about Waterford hurler John Mullane bumping into John O' Shea in the jacks in some pub in Waterford. John O Shea is washing his hands talking about his cars, houses, holidays etc

John Mullane stops hims and says "Well John, you might have it all, but you'll never be loved by the people of Waterford," and walks out with his head held high.

I'd rather the 50K a week thanks

Choochtown

Kicking Out: Change starts with the man in the mirror - The Irish News

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119448558#Comment_119448558

"Protestant people suffered as much as Catholics during the troubles. ....... It takes a big man to do something about fixing things for the next generation. ..... Protestants are as welcome as the rest of the 600,000 people on the island that identify as non-Irish nationals."

I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised at such words in the Irish News.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119443828#Comment_119443828

That’s a fair post. I appreciate when posters take a realistic view.

let me try to be respectful in my response.

I completely agree that vast numbers of those who play are good decent people who just love the sport and indeed the GAA community. I know many many of them and I wouldn’t feel able to discus with them what most in my community feel is wrong about the GAA. I have a few very close friends who I do have the discussion with and they have taken me to games etc. I have even carried out a nights voluntary training in my local GAA club at their request. They gave me a great welcome with tea and buns etc and appeared lovely people (as I expected). It is sad though that I am 99% sure that I am the only local unionist who has ever been in their club - and we must all take our responsibility for that.

what I find depressing is the posters on here that try to claim there are no issues and there are lots of people from my community involved in local clubs - that’s just total nonsense, fantasy stuff (in ni at least).

I do think the silence from the GAA on these sectarian issues fits with unionist understandable stereotypes of GAA clubs.

for most unionists the experience is negative. In my own town it’s where Ira events were held over the years and it’s where a Wolfe tones performance and mob rule afterwards, with the last two unionist houses in the centre of town attacked and the families left in the morning never to return. I personally saw the Ira colour party come out of the club prior to forming up for the Easter parade.

an amazing organisation no doubt, but will always symbolise the decision here unless it recognises it has issues and speaks out about them.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119443916#Comment_119443916

Doesn’t prove anything. No more than kenny daglish playing for Celtic or pat jennings playing for a 1980 ni

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119449140#Comment_119449140

I hate to be negative but I found that piece the same old same old from partizan newspapers on both sides. To have to give so many graphic and indeed in some cases misleading atrocities against catholics , to get the cover to say ‘Protestants suffered as much’. Not a mention of any of the issues of naming grounds etc. and for some to think it was a progressive piece. That would be a wildly progressive piece if it had been in the newsletter. Says it all really

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058212992/gaa-need-to-step-up

There is always a nasty element in Ulster GAA (a minority) whose minds have been warped by the troubles. Others seem to have a black humour about NI politics and there is no nastiness to it. There is a third grouping who are ambivalent and just go to the enjoy the games.

I experienced the warped minority first hand when I attended the Ulster final in Croke Park - Tyrone v Armagh in 2005 -10th July (drawn game). There was a minutes silence held for the victims of the London Tube Bombings which occurred on the 7th of July. Beforehand I thought to myself this is their litmus test. Will they pass it?

The minutes silence was interrupted by a good few 'Up the RA' and 'Tiocfaidh Ar La' chants from around the ground. The vast majority of the crowd were disgusted and there was a very quick - 'shush' and 'be quiet' said to the offenders.

The problem is up North there is minority whose minds are warped on both sides still. Throw in a hyper sensitivity on both sides, and macho Mickey waving contests on both sides. It is just that some take longer to mature than others, following years of living an off the wall environment.

Or maybe a small minority don't want to mature. It should also be noted that Ulster GAA had the largest percentage against the removal of the ban on 'foreign games' in Croke Park. Otherwise known as the removal of Rule 42.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-10093982.html89

The parochial mindset will slowly change even among the warped minority in Ulster on both sides of the divide. But it is not a GAA problem it is most an Ulster one. And plainly speaking there are a minority on both sides that are not right in the head.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119449946#Comment_119449946

I will hold my hands an accept that both sides offend too much and also take offence too easily.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119449989#Comment_119449989

It is both hilarious and saddening to watch at times. One side creates a perceived slight. And responds to the 'other side'. Then it is a game of reading between the lines, and 'he said, she said'. I assume most people in the middle ground in NI are just fed up of it. I can't take both main sides seriously up North at all.

It is basically a pantomime of glorified county councillors. Whatever happened to lead by example? Then instead naturally the pantomime becomes "the norm" and seeps into sport, national holidays, symbolism etc. You started it first! No you did! Rinse and repeat.

The positive is at least both sides now only throw guff at each other rather than petrol bombs or bullets.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119450075#Comment_119450075

The problem here is downcow and others with an agenda trying to play the two sides are the same game. They simply aren’t.

Everytime the OO and the associated bigots of July and August come under scrutiny they try and fail at this stuff.

Take a look at Feile this weekend and the internment anniversary, actual leadership working hard to remove controversial bonfires and what liitle provocation there was.

Unionism/Loyalism are way way behind on the ground and in political leadership.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119450213#Comment_119450213

Francie. You have just demonstrated the problem for all to see. ‘ It’s themuns, they are bigots and we are all little angels’.

as for Feile. We all know exactly how it will end. Exactly the same as every year. Ooh aah up the ra.

Where is all the leadership working hard to remove the catalyst for that vile sectarian rant? Very very easily done. Just cancel one event out of hundreds.

but sure francie it’s only kids having a bit of crack.

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119449828#Comment_119449828

Well - fair play to you for getting involved and volunteering - it certainly gives your opinion more weight than someone who is purely a hurler on the ditch.

Also - when I said I played against Protestants - they were all from the republic. I was in secondary school with two of them, and their families are very much involved in sport in their town, particularly GAA, rugby and golf. I never talked politics with them (I tend not to do that in real life!), but they just seem to be normal Irish people who happen to be Protestant. I have never seen them display any wish, no more than I have, in being British, as I know your community does. So I'm not sure you would class them as members of your community?

Not to be disrespectful, but for most people down here life has moved on, no matter the religion.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119450423#Comment_119450423

downcow, you may fool the uninformed but not anyone who is aware what has been done around contentious activity around the anniversary of intenrnment.

10's of 1000's of positive forward looking younsters thoroughly enjoying their own culture and the culture of others.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119450673#Comment_119450673

So clearly you regard mineegg as the uninformed because he doesn’t agree 100% with you.

you need to educate yourself to be informed. So since you are having a personal attack again on my integrity and knowledge, let me give you a wee insight into how I have informed myself. Here’s just a few, if you doubt any , then just ask me a question that I could only know if I had attended. So here’s for starters l

I have:

Attended Tyrone county GAA match

attended a hurling match in casement park

volunteered (once) in the local GAA club in my town

visuted Brendan McKenna and garcaghy residents group many times

visit bogside residents group and the guy I couldn’t spell his name starts with D

visited Gerard rice (don’t want to repeat that one😠) and LORAG anti parade group

crossmaglen youth centre and spoke to kids and youth leaders

dissadent republican groups in south down

i have spent a weekend with Lawrence McKeown and two other Ira, six of us in total together in deep explorative discussion

visited Bloody Sunday trust

etc etc etc

now could you, francie etc tell me what you have done and who you have engaged with to get this deep knowledge of how my community ticks You seem to know us better than we know ourselves or is it just crap you are talking?

I can tell you from great experience that you little angels are equally as sectarian as my community

I see one big difference My community (in general) accept the wrong we done and that it was wrong . Your community (in general) refuse to accept you done as much wrong as the prods you want to rewrite history as you can’t deal with the guilt of accepting all the terrible stuff was wrong and should never had happened

when the GAA stands up and says we want no more glorification of those who murdered our neighbours, it will be a very important step for peace in ni

‘probably said more than I should have in that post I feel I am casting perils

…..and around my little town just this last wee (again), Protestants have had the homes painted with threatening graffiti and an orange hall two miles from me has been attacked. just another week living in an area dominated by your little angels

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119451493#Comment_119451493

You have done all that and you still don't know how to identify what is actually sectarian?

You still cannot accept that there will always be two narratives and that people will commemorate their dead.

And you cannot see that the journey loyalism/unionism still has to make in regard to actual sectarianism in it's institutions and it's celebrations.

P.S. If you think the 'RA is sectarian then everything you celebrate, the RUC, The UDR, The British Army are also inherently sectarian.

See where the bullshit logic gets us? Nowhere.

votecounts

https://twitter.com/sinnfeinireland/status/1557057675191517184

Would Unionists ever get out of the Dark ages, maybe Unionists need "to step up" and realise that there is more than 1 community in the North.

Sectarianism at it's worst

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119451531#Comment_119451531

You keep stating this nonsense. I completely accept that sectarianism is unfortunately alive and well in both communities. I have worked to try and deal with it in my myself and my community. You are in denial and have not reached square one yet.

I am an avid ni football supporter. If Windsor park was renamed after Michael stone I would be horrified. If my team sung songs about the Uvf I would be disgusted. I just simply can’t fathom how so many GAA people don’t or can’t speak out.

Miniegg

Downcow, so much of what you say is as though nationalism and unionism exists in a vacuum - surely one as evidently smart and curious as yourself can see the world in shades of grey.

For many hundreds of years, Ireland was a country with its own distinct culture, language, traditions, folklore, art, music, laws, religion and pastimes. It was, like all cultures, diverse, constantly growing and evolving, and was evidently influenced, and changed, by many outside forces, Christianity, Viking culture etc.

British colonialism almost wiped this all out. Irish language, art, music and folklore are to this day very much on the fringes of life on this island. I'm not intending to apportion blame, this is merely factual and very evident.

Many of the founding members of the GAA, and those who fought in the war of independence, either grew up during - or were children of those who experienced the famine. This was an absolutely catastrophic event I'm sure you will agree - that was overseen and exacerbated by the British government, who had already been very successful at using violence and the legal system to stamp out Irishness.

Such a tragic event as the famine would undoubtedly shape and harden the minds of men and women who experienced it and it is from this catalyst that the republican movement and the GAA were born. 

The GAAs formation is linked with republicanism, which inherently set out to protect and re-establish, with violence if nessecary, Irish rule and traditions on this island, of which sport was one. That is why republican people are recognized in clubs and stadiums. It also set out to protect and re-establish Irish language, art, music and dance.

You may not agree with what those people did, but I do hope you would understand it, rather than simply call them all terrorists or compare them to Michael Stone, though I'm sure there were some undoubted psychos among them. 

Modern Ireland is what it is now, a still very Anglicised country with few traces of its native culture in mainstream life outside of the GAA. There is no need for republicanism to fight for these, the choice is there now for people to participate in Irish music, language and art, most just choose not to. 

This makes it all the more galling when Jaime Bryson and his ilk, who represents the type of Britishness that systematically and violently held Irishness over the abyss, label anything Irish as a threat, or equate the GAA or Irish language as being linked with terrorism in the modern day. Really they see the persistence and existence of these things as an affront to their version of Britishness. And maybe it is, but that is more due to their warped beliefs than ours.

There is another type of Britishness afterall - inclusive, diverse, progressive, and concientius Britishness that has influenced so much modern thinking, that they ignore.

But...the language is still just a language, the GAA is still just sport, the music is still just music, etc etc. They are the last vestiges of a way of life that had evolved for centuries on this island, your home, that have been now all but lost. But they are important to the Nationalist community. Whether you are Irish or British you are still human and must see this situation as sad. 

These things should be promoted and protected by all in NI government and this petty name calling, ignorance and scare mongering should be railed against by good people on all sides. 

downcow

A lot of that is a fair and accurate history, from where you are looking. I could write basically the same story about my community and just swap things like the famine with WW1. I could swap the attempts by some British to wipe out Irishness with the current attempts by SF to wipe out Britishness.

mind you you can’t tell us how the GAA is part of the struggle early in your piece and then finish by telling us the GAA is just a sport. It’s clearly not.

I accept the GAAs right to be part of the struggle, to put up memorials of only one side, to stay silent when their players show support for the Ira, etc but it can’t then claim to be open to all.

Many of the people being celebrated are vile sectarian murderers so don’t be surprised that unionists get pissed off when people like Michelle O’Neil eulogise them. There is zero difference between many of them and Micheal stone

FrancieBrady

And in the stampede to find something offensive the innocent often get hurt.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/08/10/news/embarrassing_climbdown_by_unionists_after_claim_that_gaa_tournament_in_co_tyrone_named_after_an_ira_hunger_striker-2794835/

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119452483#Comment_119452483

You couldn’t make this up. Firstly I believe the councillor should apologise for his error. He was wrong and that requires anyone decent to apologise. It is worth note why the mistake was made. It wouldn’t be made about any other sport in ni which tells you all you need to know.

what is incredible in the report is the outcry from nationalist politicians for this councillor to apologise for the hurt cased. The very same politicians who stayed silent a few weeks ago when a senior county team sang a song about attempted murder. It really is incredible

thanks for the post francie, it strongly supports my case 👍

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119451780#Comment_119451780

Speak out?

Year after year your sectarian pyres are getting higher and the bigoted taunting, louder and you are doing the usual hypocritical thing- tripping over yourselves to find minor incidences to allow you keep up the unproven and spurious allegation that ‘the GAA is sectarian’.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119452568#Comment_119452568

FFS! a Unionist **** up and it’s everyone else's fault!

Your nonsense knows no bounds.

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119452442#Comment_119452442

Not sure what you mean - how is WW1 comparable in any way to the famine?

How are Sinn Fein attempting to "wipe out" Britishness? I don't follow their politics too closely - I know they clearly want a united Ireland through political means. I know this wasn't always the case so your distrust is understandable.

I don't see them trying to jackhammer in laws to curtail your language, sports, ownership of land, freedom to practice your religion etc etc. I'm sure politically they don't want what you do, but that is not remotely the same as what British colonialism did in Ireland surely? Evidently British policy did attempt to end almost every facet of "Irishness", and was very successful in doing so.

Lastly - Gaelic games, Irish culture, language etc existed for thousands of years before republicanism was even a thing - hurling is the oldest field game in the world I believe. Irish literature is possibly the oldest vernacular literature in Europe.

For a brief period, they intertwined in history with republicanism in the face of existential catastrophe. You may not agree with it, but surely you find it understandable?

It doesn't mean the GAA and the Irish language = violent republicanism, no more than me speaking to you in English or playing soccer means I'm a violent loyalist. It's ridiculous.

Look I can see you are a product of your environment, as I am, and your attempts to understand and get involved with the other side are laudable. But clearly you are influenced by Bryson and his "Irish and out to get us" bullshit, when we all have far far more real issues to deal with in our lives.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119452648#Comment_119452648

Its called a siege mentality…everyone else to blame and themuns are out to get us….meanwhile overt and increasingly sinister sectarianism (KAT and effigy burning) gets worse and bigotry is fermented by elected unionism… but a few lads high on success sing a song.

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119452568#Comment_119452568

It's part of an orchestrated attempt to smear the GAA.

It's way, way out of proportion and the WhatsApp message that is circulating amongst good genuine people like yourself Downcow proves that. How can concerns be taken seriously when dead IRA men from the 1700s are brought into the conversation?

The rhetoric that is being pedalled only serves to divide us. Sports pitches which would see communities coming together are not being developed. Death threats, bomb scares etc.

That DUP councillor was simply stirring the pot.

As I stated here before, most people (and certainly next to none from a unionist background) didn't even know the story behind the Sean South song, even those who sing it. I can only imagine the trawling through GAA celebrations that goes on before somebody finds the golden ticket ... "We have it! A video of them'uns singing about a dead republican"

Just in case anyone is still unaware of the fury that has enveloped Unionism for the past 4 weeks and still continues today ...

The song Sean South is about the shooting of 2 IRA man by the RUC over 65 years ago. It was sung in Limerick at a celebratory event to mark the winning of the All-Ireland title. The reason it was sung is because the lyrics of the chorus are "The leader was a Limerick man"

Downcow in the interests of consistency I want to hear your outrage at the Cuban soccer champions FC Santiago de Cuba who at their celebration dinner sang the 1957 (same year as Sean South) revolution song "Patria o Muerte" which glorified those who fought in the Cuban revolution.

Miniegg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119452712#Comment_119452712

But he is taking his time posting over 8,000 times on an Irish forum, and claims to have volunteered, reached out and tried to understand the other side. This curiosity and willingness to act on it surely marks him out as being different than the generic "the Irish are out to get us" hate mob.

Maybe he is a troll? It's possible but I don't believe so.

He deserves a chance to explain how he equates things I mentioned in my little history of Ireland as being in any way comparable with what he claims is happening to Unionism, or why he holds his sometimes (IMO) ridiculous Bryson-like views, without simply brandishing him as one of the bigots.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119453093#Comment_119453093

Notice the always present vivtimhood in those 8000 posts.

Notice how the much more prevalent policitcally orchestrated bigotry and sectarianism is diluted at every opportunity.

A couple of lads getting carried away after winning a match is apparently on the same level as planned orgies of hate, bigotry and sectarianism on an annual basis. Events that are growing in height and virulence as the siege mentality festers and deepens.

If there was any equivalence Feile and St Patrick's day would be going the same way - they aren't, not in any way shape or form.

FrancieBrady

This is the agenda @Miniegg. They don't want equality, they want complete and utter capitulation to the Unionist/Loyalist narrative on what happened on this island not to mention a veto on who discusses what and what is discussed.

Paranoid victimhood and yearning for a supremacism that is never coming back.

https://twitter.com/JamieBrysonCPNI/status/1557303505374822401

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119452573#Comment_119452573

You are at it again francie. Deflecting from the issue. I have never claimed that 11th night fires are ‘open’ to everyone Sure all sorts attend them but by far the vast majority are unionists.

you are the one claiming that the GAA is ‘open’ to all. If you want to admit that the GAA are as I have described above then fair enough. But don’t measure against a single identity event and then say they are not single identity.