Gen Z will never work a day in their lives.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118045814#Comment_118045814

It's just odd that people seem to fixate on men who stay indoors playing games minding their own business and yet this sort of toxic lad football culture only gets briefly mentioned when they do something particularly egregious and then it's back to being ignored.

As someone who's an introvert and living in a city I know is going to push me out someday, I get the whole staying indoors playing games thing. To be clear, I do not advocate it but I get it. I think previous generations had their own vices and this sort of intense gaming is today's equivalent. Add in technology platforms designed to addict users and it makes sense that this is a growing phenomenon.

To me, at least, it feels like there is less and less reason to try anymore. I've spent the past half decade trying to decide on what change of career I want. If I got a 10% pay rise tomorrow, it would barely benefit me at all. Property prices are a joke and I can't afford to rent my own place so what exactly is the point in trying to be better. In South Korea, they call this "f*ck it money". I'm 34 with a good job by the way but I completely understand the frustrations many of the next generation are experiencing.

To reiterate, I do not advocate laziness, self-pity or apathy but if people are serious about implementing fixes, they need to understand what the problem is. There's no point in doing more than the minimum if the rewards aren't there and this is increasingly being shown to be the case.

I think in moments of self doubt when I wonder why I try to be better or invest effort - looking at the world around me tends only to make it worse. Like you I see very little in the world around me that motivates me to really try or want to try. I think that is the cynicism and world weariness Emmet questioned about me yesterday as to what I meant by it. I can certainly relate to the feeling of looking around at the world and feeling "Why would I even bother?".

Generally when I try to better myself I am doing it for nothing and nobody other than myself. And that - for me at least - has been motivation enough. I can not project that outwards however and assume that would work for everybody if only they would adopt my world view. Which is unfortunately what many people who find themselves in a good place do say. They think everyone else can be happy and motivated too - if only they acted/thought like they do.

But for me I think I realised one day that I am entirely trapped in this body and mind. It's all I get for the course of my life. So I might as well just find out what it is ultimately capable of. And the project of each day pushing my body and mind that tiny bit further than before - seeing and pushing the limits of how my body can move or balance or strike or what it can achieve - and similar for my mind - is motivation in life enough for me.

And I am no towering intellect or physical Olympian. At all. I never will be - it is just not the DNA hand I have been dealt alas. But I would much prefer living a life where I milk the DNA i have been dealt to the limits of what it is capable of - than be dealt a hand of natural talent and let it fester or waste.

And I think I bring that philosophy to my parenting too. I would much prefer have a child who gets all "Ds" academically and know that that was genuinely the best the child could do because they really tried - than I would prefer to have a child getting all "Bs" but winged it and we know they could have done better but they did not engage in their potential. I do not pressure them to be the best in the class or sport or pursuit - as many parents do - but just to be the best them they can be. And joy and happiness and well being can even be found in my/their failures as well as their successes when taking that approach. Without the need for "participation trophies" and the like :)

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118035000#Comment_118035000

Post of the day.

In your 20s you are an ass who thinks they know everything. You think anyone older than you just hasnt a clue and you do. You think no way will you ever be like the old farts in there 40s and 50s.

In your 30s you are still an ass and think you know everything, but you are slowly realizing that those older than you might have a thing or two to say to you that is sound advice.

In your 40s you look back and think you were young and naive in your 30s and god know what kind of idiot you were in your 20s, because you cant believe how bad you were. You still havent realized how wize those older than you actually are but you are beginning to suspect it.

In your 50s you start to think, oh, the young are just young and those older than you are actually wise and have been through way more than you ever will be. Total respect for them and total disregard of the opinion of anyone under 30 and couldnt be bothered trying to help them out because they just cant take it. Though you will listen to people over 30 in case you can help.

I'll let you know when im approaching 60s :)

But peoiple in their 60s seem to me to be much more mellowed out than younger and couldnt give 2 fcuks about what anyone else wants to do or how high the younger generations opinions of themselves are. They would more just roll their eyes to heaven than point out to a person in their 20s or 30s how young and naive they really are. They are happy to be asked for opinions and advice from those in their 40s and 50s though.

Now there are exceptions. There are some people who are mature beyond their years and also some who are dumb no matter what age they are.

Also every generation for some reason things the ones who can before them somehow had an easier life than them. That is just so not true.

mariaalice

It depends on what is the motivation is, it does matter because if it is an issue for society such as the person needing mental health support or welfare or other supports.

So basically go for any alternative ways of living as long as it does not affect mental health or they need welfare to support their lifestyle choices.

^ My mum used to say "Kids around 18 think their parents know nothing - kids around 22 think their parents must have suddenly learned a lot in the last 4 years" :)

I guess youth might be the biological manifestation of the (contested) Dunning-Kruger effect. Which is the hypothesis in cognitive psychology that the less a person knows about something (in terms of the young, that something being life itself) the more that person is likely to overestimate their knowledge and competence about that something.

Christopher Hitchens rephrased it well once when he defined "education" or "being educated" in a given field as that moment where you have finally learned enough to realise just how much you still do not know about it and have yet to learn. Once you hit that point in a field he said you could start to call yourself "educated".

Charles Darwin also said similar when he said “Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge”

_Brian

My daughter is 19, started in her job at 15.

in her first year at college, comes home Friday evenings. Works 9-6 Saturday and 9-1 Sunday, back to college Sunday evening.

this thread is just whinging because maybe younger people are having more fun than OP.

I'm 50/50 on whether or not social media is a positive or a curse. I'm increasingly going towards the curse side. I'm glad I'm not a teenager growing up with all this technology, they have it hard in certain ways but then every generation has their own issues.

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118046771#Comment_118046771

That is the average mine were like that and both have jobs of the 'normal' variety as adults same with all their cousins and friends. I think the op might work in a media or journalism type area and is possibly coming across an amount of the, I want to live by my art or spend my time drawing comics or spent my time gaming.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118046720#Comment_118046720

...but what if the only options a person have available to them is seek employment that may not truly financially benefit them, and may in fact have negative effects on them mentally, or the dole?

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118034475#Comment_118034475

Not sure if you use twitter but anything that your followers like shows up in your thread so I see some amount of shite I'd rather not see.

Pussyhands

I'd wonder about future generations. I flick the age setting down to 18+ on tinder for the look the odd time. Nothing but half naked birds sitting on floors taking selfies. Links to only fans in about 10% of them. You'd see less skin walking through the red light district. I'd hate to have a daughter knowing they'd potentially be brainwashed by social media into being a hoe.

Sleepy

I'm right at the tail-end of Gen-X (born August 1980) and my own kids are Gen Z. If their generation don't work a day in their lives, it won't be out of a lack of interest in work (or more accurately, the reward for that work): it'll because my generation, and those before mine have destroyed the global economy.

landofthetree

In southern Europe at least 30% of them will never have a full time job in their lives.

https://www.ft.com/content/7fb1a0e6-9f0d-11e9-9c06-a4640c9feebb

" Mario Sancataldo, a 25-year-old from the Sicilian town of Bagheria, said he had never had a proper job. Since gaining his high school diploma in hospitality management seven years ago he has not earned more than €500 a month; at present he is unemployed and lives with his grandmother."

" Sasha Taormina is struggling to make a living. “The job market is dead,” she said. “It is almost impossible to be economically independent here, especially if you are young and you are a woman. I think I will have to leave eventually if I want to find a real job.” The 32-year-old, who has a master’s degree, occasionally picks up casual work as a waitress and distributes flyers, earning about €300 a month".

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118047353#Comment_118047353

You can't really judge a whole demographic this way. I know someone in London who voted for Brexit because she thought there were too many Indians in the UK but I don't think that all old people are racist, deranged morons.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118046594#Comment_118046594

As TaxAHCruel said, it’s not about playing computer games, it’s people, usually men, who stay in 24/7 playing them, watching “questionable content” and angrily ranting online about WOKE (all caps) stuff.

If someone was staying in watching soccer all day, and doing the other things, I would view that in much that same way. As unhealthy and worrying. And it would the latter “engagements” that would be the issue.

Looking back maybe I should have PM’d TaxAH instead of posting on the thread but I thought that might be “weird”. He posted and I replied with something I felt I’d noticed of late. There are certain posters on this site who’s names I’d recognise and would be interested in what they are saying. You’d have your, Wibbs, TaxAH, Abominable Dr Phibes, Leg End Reject, Tyrant (now gone), Dial Hard, Quantum Erasure, Brendan Bendar, Fever Dream, Annaspora, Nevin Parsnip and your good self, to name but a few.

Wouldn’t always agree with these users but would still want to hear them out. I may well have “overstepped” with TaxAH but it was meant as an observation as opposed to an attack.

Which is indeed how it was taken I would hasten to add. And grateful I am for it too.

Also given how weird some of my unsolicited PMs get - you would be hard pushed to send me one I would consider weird. :) This is an observation not a challenge :p

Well if “everyone” is making money sitting on their asses posting sh1te on social media, who is actually to do useful work, (like being a chef, a nurse, a cleaner etc) that is needed to run society? There’s gotta be a point where the market gets saturated with sh1te, and little more to be made out of it.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118047908#Comment_118047908

more or less Graeber's point

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118047731#Comment_118047731

I get what you're saying. My point was that people who are staying inside all the time probably span generations. It's probably why most soaps exist and why RTE has to import so many from Australia.

As regards the surfeit of ranting and raving online, there's plenty of anti-vaxx, science denial and fascism to go along with the "woke" stuff, whatever that is. The general point of moderating one's time online, if not abstaining from social media altogether holds though.

I find the whole making friends thing incredibly grim, frankly. I'm friendly with a housemate and have friends scattered across the UK and Ireland. Everyone's already settled into their social lives so making progress is a lot harder than at school or University. Don't even start me on dating. I don't approve of the government banning things as a rule but if they went for Tinder, Bumble, etc I wouldn't exactly be rushing to government buildings to protest.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118047731#Comment_118047731

As TaxAHCruel said, it’s not about playing computer games, it’s people, usually men, who stay in 24/7 playing them, watching “questionable content” and angrily ranting online about WOKE (all caps) stuff.

Ahh well, when you're talking about people playing computer games, the majority are going to be male. However, replace computer games with TV shows, and one could apply the above quote to women... including the questionable content, except they're promoting/ranting in favor of the woke stuff. It's hardly any surprise to anyone that a lot of this woke nonsense was born out of the more "extremist" attitudes in feminism, and those who got their start in the social sciences.

The funny thing is that the gaming community used to be a rather positive place, absent most of the sexism, or divisive attitudes that were present in other parts of society. It took the woke warriors coming in, calling the consumer base toxic, and demanding representation for everything under the sun, while continuing to complain when things changed to match their views.... all of that changed the gaming community, because of the pressure placed on game developers, and the range of media outlets that suddenly started posting bile about gender and race. https://kotaku.com/ being a prime example of the pure drivel that has been produced just to drive gamers nuts.

The thing is that most gamers wouldn't normally be interested in ranting online about gender, sexuality, or whatever. They'd be interested in ranting about graphics cards, loot boxes, etc instead... but the environment has been forcibly changed for them, and the media outlets along with some game developers have ensured that it's difficult to avoid this woke nonsense unless you stick to playing singleplayer games on your PC. Most online gaming has introduced a wide range of moderating "guidelines" seeking to promote the woke beliefs, all the while favoring one group over another.

The sad truth is that these male gamers are changing to match the environment they spend their time in. It wasn't their choice, but something pushed on them because activists saw men/boys enjoying something and needed to cast their judgement over it all, which is why cries against gender stereotypes in gaming, objectification of women, etc all became incredibly important issues that gamers needed to know about... and as such, they would rant about the drop in quality of gaming that has happened as a result. The investment that game developers need to put into researching this woke crap to avoid offending people is taken away from the funding allocated to the actual game development... and that is worth ranting over.

Oh, and no, the all caps ranting is the area of teenagers and idiots. Most gaming forums ban people who post in Caps, and rightly so. Just as the use of caps in gaming chats tends to be strictly moderated, even before this woke crap was introduced into the gaming sphere.

Lastly, there are many female gamers out there. I used men above because of your quote, but you'll find many female gamers online talking about all this crap too. Especially among the Asian communities in the US or elsewhere. Again, most people just wanted to game without any of this woke crap being pushed on them.. because gaming was a way of escapism from the pressures of their own lives.. but that's been taken away from them, and yes, they're right to rant about it, if they wish to do so.

Yes the old are always giving out, but the young started it, so it's only right we organize and fight back :D

Self-aggrandisement, the narcissism of minor differences, and other egotistical impulses drive some people to act this way, regardless of age.

OP, to break this painful cycle, I am prescribing you 10 years in the Tibetan wilderness to be immediately followed by 5 years in an Indian city dump. I will assess you for further treatment at that point.

And as for these labels - Gen Z is followed by Gen ALPHA?! What is this messianic Nietzschean sh1te? Alpha? Get up the yard! Better yet.. get out of me yard ye little feckin Nazis! :D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118047908#Comment_118047908

Most of those making money on social media have "real" jobs too, because it takes time to setup and develop a brand that sells effectively. Even then, the market shifts quickly, and many people fail to change quickly enough, and will need to fall back on their "real" job. The few people I know who are working entirely through their social media, already have some income or supports coming from their families, boyfriends/gfs, or live in relatively cheap countries.

As for saturation, it happens, but the nature of the internet is that something new comes along every few months. Some continue to remain profitable for an extended period, but for many, these new ventures are an opportunity to make some quick money before moving on to the next new thing. Besides which, most people who work online in this manner have diversified so that they have a toe dipped into a variety of income sources.

It's not as easy as many people want to suggest. Still I know people earning big money from their online branding, and subsequent marketing/sales.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048350#Comment_118048350

It took the woke warriors coming in, calling the consumer base toxic

Really? Is that what happened? I'm not a member of the community, but what I saw discussed about it in public was how some female participants were getting abuse and finally drew attention to that. Is that not the case?

Google throws up several articles on this. One

Then a stalker began harassing her on the game’s forums, impersonating her in the game and, later, sending her barrages of Twitter messages, some threatening her with graphic rape and murder

Another

The study, carried out by Young Gamers & Gamblers Education Trust (YGAM), discovered some 35 per cent of women said they have been sent inappropriate content or messages from other gamers. Some 28 per cent of female gamers have been sexually harassed by fellow gamers and 40 per cent verbally abused by gamers while playing online multiplayer games.

Are these articles false? Is someone who finds this unacceptable a 'woke warrior'?

mariaalice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118046947#Comment_118046947

working/ paid employment in and off its self does not cause mental health issues, the person needs help and support with their mental health issue not a life on the dole.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048469#Comment_118048469

Obviously the people responsible for the "harassment" were just edgy and non pc, and anyone questioning it is just woke and probably identifies as tofu.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048623#Comment_118048623

so work doesnt cause environmentally induced mental health issues? will agree though to a point, the long term unemployed do indeed need assistance with whatever psychological issues they maybe having

ancapailldorcha

The funny thing is that the gaming community used to be a rather positive place, absent most of the sexism, or divisive attitudes that were present in other parts of society. It took the woke warriors coming in, calling the consumer base toxic, and demanding representation for everything under the sun, while continuing to complain when things changed to match their views.... all of that changed the gaming community, because of the pressure placed on game developers, and the range of media outlets that suddenly started posting bile about gender and race. https://kotaku.com/ being a prime example of the pure drivel that has been produced just to drive gamers nuts.

Except this isn't remotely true. It just got swept up in the culture war like a lot of things and got flooded with far right talking points. I've been a gamer all my life and never felt like anyone was forcing "woke" on me whereas I just avoid online communities because of the absurd levels of toxic masculinity and entitlement on display. My favourite games are Imperialistic, colonial wargames and none of the "woke warriors" have even mentioned them. For every Anita Sarkeesian, there are thousands, if not more "classic liberals" wailing about identity politics.

It's why I never touch multiplayer.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048469#Comment_118048469

Really? Is that what happened? I'm not a member of the community, but what I saw discussed about it in public was how some female participants were getting abuse and finally drew attention to that. Is that not the case?

Yes, that was part of the movement to bring about regulations and moderation of behavior...

What? You think your point counters everything I said in my post?

Are these articles false? Is someone who finds this unacceptable a 'woke warrior'?

No, of course not... and nothing in my posts suggests anything like that, since I didn't raise the point of online harassment in gaming. You did. I referred to the gaming community, game development, and the advancement of woke agenda in that environment.... in response to the piece I quoted.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048625#Comment_118048625

Or it's a irrelevant to what I wrote, since he's referring to the behavior of some people online, as opposed to the movement to introduce and apply woke attitudes to the gaming community. I even pointed to examples of those attitudes and concerns, and he chose to introduce something entirely different, and run with that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048930#Comment_118048930

I made the point of referring to the Gaming media, such as kotaku, because that all contributes to the overall gaming environment, from gaming conventions, to the kind of opinion pieces sent out about gaming culture. As for woke being forced on people, it was a reference to the pressure on developers, and others to conform to the expectations surrounding the woke agendas, such as objectification, or gender stereotyping. What? You haven't seen the range of articles and discussions on the use of gender in games, and such? And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Remember the outcry before the Cyberpunk release about stereotyping, and racism? I guess you wouldn't consider that to be relevant.

ancapailldorcha

I made the point of referring to the Gaming media, such as kotaku, because that all contributes to the overall gaming environment, from gaming conventions, to the kind of opinion pieces sent out about gaming culture. As for woke being forced on people, it was a reference to the pressure on developers, and others to conform to the expectations surrounding the woke agendas, such as objectification, or gender stereotyping. What? You haven't seen the range of articles and discussions on the use of gender in games, and such? And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Remember the outcry before the Cyberpunk release about stereotyping, and racism? I guess you wouldn't consider that to be relevant. As I said, sticking to singleplayer is how you can avoid it all, and you confirmed my point.

So no evidence, then that these slavedriving, tax-dodging corporations are "woke warriors". Ok. I'll leave it at that.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049102#Comment_118049102

No, that and this response shows that your attention is focused on being annoyed at who you perceive to be 'woke' and if not uncaring as to some of the experiences those within the community were putting up with, definitely seeing it as less important than denouncing what you perceive to be 'woke'.

In fact, you flat out blamed such people coming in for creating a toxic environment which suggests that either the stuff I referred to only started as a consequence of people asking for a change in attitude (don't think anyone would buy that argument) or that you were ok with, or ignorant of, what others were experiencing.

As I said, I'm not a member of that community, but the focus on the 'woke' in a denigrating manner while ignoring other unpleasant and outright illegal attitudes seems an interesting position to take.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049136#Comment_118049136

Ahh well, when you want to avoid dealing with the content of my post... sure. Go right ahead...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049164#Comment_118049164

No, that and this response shows that your attention is focused on being annoyed at who you perceive to be 'woke' and if not uncaring as to some of the experiences those within the community were putting up with, definitely seeing it as less important than denouncing what you perceive to be 'woke'.

As opposed to Emmets claim about male gamers, which you didn't seem to have a problem with. That's rather telling considering your objection to my own post.

And who did I say was, or that I perceived them as being woke? Again, you seem to be leading towards things that I hadn't posted on, and drawing conclusions all the same.

In fact, you flat out blamed such people coming in for creating a toxic environment which suggests that either the stuff I referred to only started as a consequence of people asking for a change in attitude (don't think anyone would buy that argument) or that you were ok with, or ignorant of, what others were experiencing.

In fact, I blamed the woke movement for coming in and creating such an environment (not the environment of harassment, before you lay that on me too). You introduced the problem of harassment in gaming, and decided that represented the whole involvement of the woke movement in gaming... otherwise you wouldn't have decided to run with it, without my first mentioning it. So, you believe that all woke agenda, and beliefs that were pushed into the gaming environment were solely done to reduce harassment of gamers by gamers, as opposed to any other reasons. Ahh yes, I can apply the same logic of assigning beliefs to other people too, based on extremely little.

Grand. Glad to clear that up. As for my supposed beliefs on harassment in gaming, you're doing a wonderful job of making it up for me, so knock your socks off. It's not remotely accurate, but don't let that stop you.

As I said, I'm not a member of that community, but the focus on the 'woke' in a denigrating manner while ignoring other unpleasant and outright illegal attitudes seems an interesting position to take.

Ahh well... I wasn't ignoring or approving of illegal attitudes. I simply didn't post about them in my previous contribution to the thread. I am a member of the gaming community, I'm active on a variety of gaming forums, and keep fairly up to date with whats happening to developers, and the business side of game publishing.

Again, though, you projected the argument about harassment on to me, without any connection to the quoted post, except to suggest that the woke involvement in gaming, was an answer to the need for moderation of said harassment. I disagree, and see it as the same movement of woke sentiments into most areas of entertainment.

Now, perhaps you'd like to deal with the content of my previous post.. as opposed to running off on a tangent based on assumptions that I didn't write about? No? Fine... TBH i wouldn't be terribly surprised if you continued in the same vein as you have so far.

Potential-Monke

Women make up nearly half of all people who play games (in the 5 key Euro markets), and the average age is 31. Pretty sure these figures include mobile games such as candy crush, etc, but a game is a game. Time spent playing is very low though, rookie numbers. People are forgetting that those in their 30s and 40s are the generation who were the first to have home consoles and that's why the average age is so high, and why I do get upset when people tar all gamers into the extreme category, of which there are only a few but vocal, same as any group.

2021 STATS

GLOBAL

• Across the five key European markets (France, Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK) 50% of the population aged 6-64 play video games. (ISFE, Aug 2021)
  • The average age of a video game player in Europe is 31.3 years old.
  • The games audience of these five territories breaks down as
    • 9% - 6-10 years old
    • 9% - 11-14 years old
    • 22% - 15-24 years old
    • 20% - 25-34 years old
    • 16% - 35-44 years old
    • 23% - 45-64 years old
  • Within each age bracket, we can look at the percentage of people who play video games.
    • 68% of 6-10 year olds
    • 79% of 11-14 year olds
    • 72% of 15-24 year olds
    • 60% of 25-34 year olds
    • 43% of 35-44 year olds
    • 31% of 45-64 year olds
  • The average time spent playing video games each week by European players is 9.5 hours, compared to 14 hours for social media and 23.5 hours for television.
• 47% of all European video game players are women. (ISFE, Aug 2021)
  • Women make up 53% of all European mobile/tablet players.
  • Women who play video games are three times more likely to study for a STEM degree than that that do not play video games.

riclad

I think there's a survey gamers are 60 to 40 ratio male female ,approx there's a wider range of games avaidable now not just cod fifa soccer war fps shooter games games are more social now with voice chat online multiplayer it's hard

More games have female lead characters returnal last of us2

I think it's not cynical to say gen z will be left to deal with the results of climate change unless present governments take rapid action to fix it its hard not to be cynical when we see the top 10 per cent can pay very little tax if they wish i think dating apps are a good thing as they give people more options rather than trying to meet someone in the local pub or nightclub