New handicap system

1 of 7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417932#Comment_118417932

The idea of a handicap is that everyone has an equal chance of winning when they tee it up. If your 10 handicap is playing to a 17 handicapper (as would be the minimum required to get five shots back), it is hard to disagree he doesn’t deserve to play off 15,to give him an equal chance to everyone else. If they hit form, they will be back to a 10 handicap very quickly. It is great to get to get good discussion on it. I do feel Golf Ireland could do more to smooth the transition.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418026#Comment_118418026

Ye I dont agree with this. People play better some of the times and worse some of the times. They dont need to be kept competitive at all times. I know when I'm playing shite and when I do I wouldnt expect or even want to have a chance of winning even if it goes on for a while.

1 of 7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418060#Comment_118418060

In fairness, if you are not playing well, You won’t play to within one or two shots of your handicap index and won’t win. But the Whs is more reflective of your current form as opposed to Congu, which was reflective of your potential form. It is a fairer system than Congu, in my opinion but it requires everyone reading up on rule 7 of handicapping in the whs and handicap committees implementing it. Also Golf Ireland needs to make sure qualifying golf is played as often as possible, like Scottish Golf has.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418098#Comment_118418098

What did Scottish Golf do? I thought once you touch the ball in the rough qualifying is off?

1 of 7

Scottish Golf allow rule 3.2 of handicapping to allow 12,14 or 15 hole competitions count for handicapping along with the nine and 18 hole courses. They have also carried out temporary course ratings to allow mats for use on the tee boxes. Model local rule E-2 and E-3 allows for lift,clean and replace to the ball in the rough this is applicable in Ireland.

billy3sheets

Handicap Committees can adjust WHS for non-qualifying rounds also. If a golfer's demonstrated ability is showing that they are playing better than their WHS. The problem is that the methodology (number of good scores, period they were achieved over and amount cut) applied is at the discretion of the individual committee and is not likely to be applied equally across clubs.

1 of 7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418496#Comment_118418496

I agree with the above, This is where golf Ireland could do more to allow for as close as possible to a 12 month qualifying season and take a lot of the work from the handicap committees. The R and A advice to the developers of the club Systems was to leave out the winter handicapping function as there was enough concessions in the WHS to allow for 12 month qualifying competitions. There should be very little non qualifying golf anymore meaning every round is counting towards your handicap.

bakerbhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118401131#Comment_118401131

26 to 30 points for 11 hole seniors tees. Long h/cap same.

Seve OB

I agree with above posts by Calamari. The system is great in principle but no golfer needs to be competitive all the time. Sure wasn’t the premise of the old system that you would only shoot your handicap once in 8 or something like that?

I was almost a single figure golfer just before WHS came in. I have had (not a lot) but still a fair few rounds of 6,7 over par and would usually knock a couple better than +10 out each year.

I had a terrible golf year, just played bad, head was fried, busy with other stuff etc. I still have a game in me though. I have 32 counting rounds this year, some casual ones in there (boards outings mainly which are anything but casual as most here can attest to) which actually are helping me keep my handicap lower than it otherwise would be. But my handicap has gone out to 14.3 which can give me up to 17 shots depending or where I’m playing. I don’t need to hear all the ribbing I get from my buddies and club members cause I already know it’s a joke and I should be shot.

Actually a true story, on a recent golf trip we met an aul lad over a pint and chats with him and my buddy soon led to handicaps. The rebel county pensioner was off 5, my fellow boardsie declared his handicap of 8 and when the Corkonian turned to ask me I was very quickly muted! “Well he his his driver better than me, he hits his irons better than me, he has a better short game than me, he putts better than me and he has better course management than me……… so of course he plays of 14 🥸”

A big part of my problem is that I’m streaky and I don’t practice. I got a lesson a few weeks ago which gave me a bit of confidence back with my setup and I know ball striking will improve. Probably going to get another lesson in week or 2.

I don’t know how or when, but I reckon I could well start getting a game together over the next few months. Then I’ll put a decent score in and I’ll be the talk of the what’s app groups and twitter sharing “would ya check this score out craic”.

I don’t want the shots, I don’t need the shots, I’m just having a bad run of form. This is not accounted for at all in WHS and it needs to be addressed.

billy3sheets

But @Seve OB WHS is an average of your 8 best of last 20 scores not an average of your last 20. So your bad run will have to continue for quite a while to flush out 8 good counting scores and increase your WHS. It reflects your current form whether you like it or not.

Virtually every golfer thinks they're in a slump and are capable of shooting much lower. WHS factually shows that's not the case.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418257#Comment_118418257

In our case lack of rating or mats are not the issue. The course is playable (ish) most of the winter and our system allows for qualifying scores with less than 18 holes.

I dont think the issue in the rough is primarily the dirty ball. Rough in the winter is sparse and thin and the ground is very soft. Playing as it lies or equivalent leads to people ploughing up the place. Placing in the rough is as much about playability as it is about course protection.

It really comes down to the immediacy of the new system and the size of the increases in my opinion. The winter situation where a number of players will sit on a too high handicap for months only highlights this. As well as it does distort the winter comps/leagues.

Rikand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418842#Comment_118418842

Seve, if you were a single handicap golfer when WHS came in and now you're off 14.3 - that's not just a bad run of form. That's a shocking run of form over 35 rounds of golf. You've basically increased your handicap by the maximum number of strokes allowable in the WHS. And it's not that WHS doesnt account for this. It does. It has a soft cap that you go through after gaining 3.0 strokes and a hard cap of 5.0 strokes. Once you hit the soft cap, your increases in handicap are hit by 50%, so it becomes twice as hard to increase your handicap and you'd want to be playing really really bad to get up to the 5.

However, there is a recourse for you. You can approach your handicap secretary and inform them that you don't believe the current handicap you have been given is a proper reflection of your golfing ability. Ask them to cut you back to a handicap that you deem appropriate and for the next year, all your rounds will have a deduction applied to them. I imagine your handicap secretary will have no problem doing this for you. It'll save him a lot of grief if you go out and shoot 61 in the Captains prize next year playing off 20 :)

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419804#Comment_118419804

But up until just before Christmas, courses were in relatively good condition and playable under model local rules E-2 and E-3. I played Powerscourt East a couple of times and there was no reason it shouldn't have been qualifying. My own course stayed qualifying up to Christmas and it's only the heavy rain we've had since then that's made it impossible.

Now, I know courses were running comps over 12 and 13 holes (due to the short days), but I think they could just have easily played nine hole comps qualifying instead. Clubs are making a choice to go non-qualifying when they could as easily choose otherwise.

OEP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418842#Comment_118418842

I'm sorry but having 32 counting rounds that has you off 14.3 - and as you said, a whole year of bad golf - means that it is more than a slump and that your handicap should be higher than previous years when you were not in a "slump".

Ivefoundgod

The system is reflective of ability IMO unless you are actively manipulating. We all know players who have the ability to be serious golfers but have no consistency and as a result are playing off handicaps that don't seem to reflect their skill level on the surface. I played a few rounds this year with guys and early on would think to myself 'this guy has no business being off this high a handicap' and yet as the round goes on and you add up the scores you see why they are (I'm sure others have played rounds with me and thought the same). I know personally it would frustrate me to see my handicap go up by 3+ shots over the course of the year but your scores are your scores. I think I might have the ability to be a 5 handicap, that doesn't mean I am one though and my scores reflect where my game is in terms of ability and consistency. Its pointless to say to myself 'I am capable of breaking 80' therefore I should be off 'X'. I need to go out and actually break 80 with regularity to get to that handicap, it would be an ego thing to say otherwise IMO. There are plenty of players out there who are capable of putting in rounds that would be comparable to low single digit golfers but one good round doesn't make you a single digit golfer yet I've come across people who seem to think that because they did it once, that is their level. Its the same thing you get with distance, so many golfers take their longest ever drive as their 'average' length and is common with a lot of golfers.

Not saying any of the above is true of you Seve_OB by the way, my comments are based on members in my own club and general experiences.

Seve OB

No I agree that bad form should show an increase in handicap.

I'm more saying that it should not be allowed to go up so much, for me or anyone else.

We were at a 1 shot capped increase just over a year ago, now you can go out by 5 shots, which in fact can be a lot more depending on the course you are playing.

It just needs to be reigned back in and a lower increase allowed

CalamariFritti

I am a little confused because people are making a case now for WHS to be more reflective of form and therefore superior to CONGU.

I didnt think that was the reason why WHS was introduced. I could be wrong but I got the impression the overwhelming if not sole reason for its introduction was the 'unified' aspect to which there are two angles in my opinion.

• International comparability - Which I think has limited benefits to the amateur golfer except maybe for the elite amateur
• National interclub comparability - Which in theory is a great idea but ask anyone and they will tell you handicaps in interclub teams are largely farcical anyway

Which leads to me thinking that the 'unified' angle has limited use to anyone but the elite amateur level.

After that I'm looking at the actual handicap system itself and when I compare it to CONGU I must conclude 'if it an't broken don't fix it'.

The new system is a) more complicated and b) allows for faster and bigger swings. a) is hardly an advantage whatever way you look at it and b) is going into the wrong direction altogether with regards to what needed fixing in CONGU golf (handicap massaging).

I really find it hard to see the improvement that WHS is supposed to bring along.

monkeybutter

Surely both are true

I can play off different tees in the same club with a different handicap

I can put in casual rounds not easy to do previously if supported at all at my own club or any irish club

I can get a truer handicap on harder courses if playing casual or open or inter club assuming the course rating was done correctly

its easier for me to why my handicap is what is with the website and app

Handicap massaging wasn't caused or fixed by this, only manual intervention can do this

If you are playing to 20 for half a year or a whole year, it makes more sense to allow the swing up as it does down, otherwise its just a vanity thing

blue note

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420444#Comment_118420444

I agree wholeheartedly with this post! We've all heard people say you don't have pictures on the scorecards, all that matters is the number that goes onto the card. But for handicap purposes, we seem to want the pictures. You hear a fella can drive it 250 yards, or get a lot of spin on his wedges and you want that factored into his handicap because once he starts doing it consistently he'll be far lower. There is absolutely no guarantee he'll start doing it consistently this year, next year or ever! Although that's not the case with Seve - he has had the lower rounds. Kind of similar to myself to be honest, I've gone out from 13 to 18 (and counting) over the course of less than 30 counting rounds.

To me how slowly handicaps could increase was probably my biggest gripe with the CONGU system. Not from a personal point of view, if I was playing badly I didn't mind scoring badly. It's only recently that that has gone on for a long time, but if my handicap was now 15 instead of 18, I'd probably prefer it being honest. WHS handicap shows your actual current ability and I don't like that it is showing mine at over 18 now. But it's accurate. My gripe with them increasing slowly though was coupled with people being given handicaps far lower than their ability. I can think of a few specific examples. The clearest being a junior I grew up with. He played a lot, went to the weekly lessons with me and never got down from 36. And bear in mind they'd cut a junior if he got near 36 points. Then he turned 18 and was given an official handicap of 20. They had years of cards from him in junior comps and ignored them and gave him a ridiculous handicap. Over a few years he played in enough competitions to get over 2 shots back. He certainly never got to 20 points and I'm not sure how many times he broke 10. And this was fine to people. If he still played, he'd surely have a handicap in the 40s and this would be appropriate.

It wasn't a limitation of CONGU that the handicaps assigned were often too low, but the fact that it was so hard to increase from them was a problem with the system. Now, you don't need to get on to the handicap secretary to ask for a review. And realistically, if your handicap was far too low, they'd only ever meet you in the middle of where it should be. If it should have been 34, they'd give you 27. Now, your handicap will actually reflect your ability.

Just as an aside - do you actually come down in handicap quicker with this system? I think I've only shot over 40 points twice in competition and I think they were 41 and 42 point rounds. They were a long time ago so my memory is hazy. But I was given an ESR for each of those of 2 shots. So I came down by the 6*.3 / 6*.2 for each of them, plus 2 shots for each of them. Very roughly I came down about 7 shots from those two rounds. Whereas with WHS, if you beat your handicap by 6 shots, you'll (very roughly) come down by about an eighth of that each time, so from the two rounds about 1.5 shots. The calculations are extremely crude, but I'm not convinced we come down faster under WHS.

1 of 7

Just in relation to the Whs being more complicated, I would disagree as the manual for the rules of handicapping for Whs is half the size of the Congu one. Congu was quite complicated but we all grew up with it. Not many members I knew,could tell me what was needed to calculate a standard scratch for a competition. They just accepted what was with the results.Also it could be argued that Congu was too slow to react to poor form. If a member went through his bad form for a year they were bringing in low 20 points and unable to get any increase in handicap past the one shot.Also resulting in incorrect stand scratch as they were not able to play to their handicap. It goes back to the definition of a handicap in sports “To impose a disadvantage on a superior competitor in order to make the chances more equal “. I agree with SeveOb and calamarifritti, If you are left on a high handicap for a non qualifying period, It is also unfair and wrong. There are plenty of concessions in the whs to allow qualifying golf for nearly all the year. The clubs and Golf Ireland have to adopt them into play. But this is an issue for both and not the WHS System.

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420764#Comment_118420764

would rather just quote or highlight the line but new boards don't allow it ☹️

it cannot possibly be easier for you to see what your handicap is.

before if it was 14, it was 14 wherever you went! now you have to look it up 😆, but yea, its not hard to do

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118420946#Comment_118420946

re that junior

that is crazy, why did he not have an official handicap when he was a junior member. the record should just flow from there. absolutely no need to take his handicap off him to give him an official one. he should have always have an official one.

its a new one on me and not something i experienced when i progressed from being a junior, and it does not AFAIK to any juniors in my clubs.

is this common practice amongst other clubs that you don't have an official handicap till you turn 18?

blue note

The club would give juniors an official handicap when they got down to about 20. The official one would tend to start at 16 and once you had it you could play in the senior comps, although you couldn't win them. But once you weren't a junior and became an intermediate member they had to give you an official handicap.

That guy would have turned 18 in 2001, so you're going back a long way. I don't know if things have changed since. But under CONGU, the only way you could go up quickly was through your handicap secretary. And if you have someone putting in a year of bad scores, maybe they average low 20 points, how many shots back would you expect a handicap secretary to give them? It should probably be around 9 or 10 and that could put a man to a 30 handicap. I'm not sure if there was a handicap secretary in the country that would have done that. Imagine if they won a comp after that? I'd say they'd be more likely to give them about 4 shots back and maybe they'll have a couple of scores breaking 30.

CalamariFritti

You could have a point re: complexity. because we were just so used to congu however standard scratch was never anything the player was concerned with. So I wouldnt count that one.

I am not actually opposed to the new system. But it has problems which hopefully are just bedding in problems. But the way it presented itself in its first year I think it caused more problems than it solved.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118421343#Comment_118421343

Boards does allow smoother quoting. Its a little more involved but it does look neater

a) Highlight the text you want to quote and copy and paste it into your reply

b) place cursor on that line or select pasted text entirely if more than one line

c) at this point this little 'paragraph symbol' or whatever it is appears on the left

d) click on that then select the apostrophe, then select the ' " quote' option

e) then the thing below happens

f) if you want to be clear/fancy place cursor just above and start typing beginning with the 'at' sign (@)

g) as you start typing it presents you with user names, complete that

h) Voila!

@Seve OB

would rather just quote or highlight the line but new boards don't allow it ☹️

Ivefoundgod

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118421365#Comment_118421365

Can only speak to my own experience when I played junior golf (2000-2005ish) and I had the same experience where I did not have an official handicap. The way my club worked was I was a junior member classed as J1 from age 12-14. I played 9 holes(it was a 9 hole course) twice weekly off the junior tees with a group coaching session from the golf pro and there was year long order of merit thing. This would be summer months only. I could play casual rounds during this period but not at weekends and couldn't play in club comps. Typically you would stay in this category until 16 however the club and pro suggested I move onto J2 membership when I was 14 as they thought it would be better for my development, my parents agreed so I moved up. I think if I remember right I had a J1 handicap of 9 though I might be wrong and that was maintained properly with a print out in the clubhouse albeit in the junior section. I don't ever remember playing in open comps using it but we did play inter club comps occasionally. When I moved up to J2 I was given a 'proper' handicap, this meant playing off the mens tees and playing in mens comps on Saturday/Sundays. I think I went from 9 to 14 h'cap though again I could be wrong there, I do remember my father thinking I should have had a way higher handicap. I think I played maybe 2 or 3 mens comps and absolutely hated it, I had no chance of playing to my handicap and was too shy/nervous to ever play well. I think older players resented being stuck with a child basically as well. I'd stopped playing golf regularly by the time I was 16 and pretty much gave up completely by 17. Didn't play for years then and only played the odd casual round in my late 20s until I joined a club again last year at 33. It sounds like that was what happened to blue notes junior friend as well with an unrealistic handicap.

EDIT: on the official handicap question, I think once I moved to J2 I had an official CONGU handicap that wasn't in the junior section in the clubhouse but I don't really remember to be honest. I did play some opens with my dad during that time and had a handicap so I assume it was.

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118421343#Comment_118421343

it calculates it for me, I can look it up with the app, its easy enough to work out either way

before it was 14 not matter where i played or what tees I played, if the course was harder than another it would just give me a higher handicap, which then transferred to other easier course or tees would not makes sense, now it does

I can see how my handicap was determined in an easy graph and the result is consistent with my ability as that is what I am shooting

I regularly play other courses so its perfect for me

If you want to put in non comp rounds you can, if you don't then that works too

I think its a decent step forward

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118421472#Comment_118421472

ok, well i joined a club as 12 year old in 1989 (am still there). handicap given was 28. chipped away at it over the years, graduated from junior to student to full @ somestage in my 20's, probably around the turn of the century (same time as your pal). i think was still like a25 or something then and the only time it changed was when i played golf and either improved or got the .1 back.

when i was junior we used to get about 12-20 out each week, we played off proper tees from day one. now there could be 60 odd down each week and i do see they have junior tees, so possibly there is something in the divisions which ivefound mentions and they need to go up the ranks in that first. but plenty of juniors do absolutely have full proper handicaps and play in the main comps, but they would be the better golfers.

sure they would have to have proper handicaps to play interclub and junior tournaments, so maybe it was more of a case that he wasn't good enough to get a proper handicap. but none of that is taking away from the fact that he was given a daft and unfair handicap especially when they had his scores on record.

Wombatman

Casual Round Abuse : Fact or Fiction?

When the system was first announced there was some concern that casual rounds would be open to banditry.

Playing at my local club during the week there was some talk that it is being abused. Not sure how exactly as you would have to play a good few rounds for a bad score to come into the equation.

An evidence of abuse out there? Is there a cap on movement like there used to be?

Seve OB

You could knock a good one out in one round and replace it with a poorer one I guess fairly handy. But yes I agree with you to an extent, it’s likely going to still be a reasonable effort that replaces it and it would take a fair element of work to play a lot of bad rounds to drive it up significantly.

soft cap is three shots and hard cap of 5, where the last 2 shots basically go up in half. So you’d really be going up 7 to increase 5

Rikand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118930549#Comment_118930549

As someone who is on the handicap committee in my club and specifically is the person who looks after casual round administration, there is no abuse in my club. I've ran the reports and compared the excel sheets, there is next to no discrepancy between the scores from people playing competition rounds and casual rounds. The odd case you'll see one person who had one rubbish round in a casual but didnt make any difference to their handicap. I would say there probably are people out there who are doing it, but 99.9% of people are not.

Salvadoor

Beaufort Golf Club

16th/17th April - 18 Hole Stableford

1st Barry Murphy (40) 40 pts

23rd/24th April - Stableford

1st Barry Murphy (38) 48 pts

Seve OB

Here is a flaw with WHS when playing stableford.

If your Course Handicap is 15 then 95% means your Playing Handicap is 14 and you will not have a shot on the index 15 (eg par 3). If you miss a putt for a gross 4 (now you are getting 0 points in the comp) and subsequently pick your ball up instead of tapping in for a 5 the WHS system will then allocate you a score of 6 for handicap purposes.

If you tap in for 5, your adjusted gross score would be one shot less.

I think the concept really needs to be looked at and adjusted. The 95% thing is just messy, cumbersome and unnecessary. I understand the idea is to make it essentially fairer to the single figure handicappers, but the formula used for calculating your score differential could be tweaked to make allowances.

indeed the whole 113 slope number and formulas used to calculate indexes etc need to be changed because they just don’t make sense

elbagarihno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040686#Comment_119040686

Totally agree with this point, Playing Handicap should not be seen by players or on their cards etc, it should only be applied when the Competition Committee are working on the results. However, we all know that guy that would complain: "I signed for 48 points, so why is my score only 47??", but from a handicap admin perspective it would make far more sense.

As to the formulas, I think it's hard to argue that they need to be changed or that they don't make sense, this method has been used for years in the US and elsewhere, it pretty well tried and tested.

GandhiwasfromBallyfermot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040182#Comment_119040182

I would be pretty embarrassed if I won a competition playing off 40. I think our club applies a max handicap of 28 or something for competitions.

Seve OB

28 is more than enough shots for any self respecting golfer. Give them 54 if they must, but I agree, 28 should be max for any competition

big_drive

I'd agree but would make an exception for any medical issues, etc.

If someone suffered a bad accident or similar I'd let them have whatever was needed for them to enjoy their game and be competitive when playing for a fiver with friends, etc

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119041894#Comment_119041894

Sure would he not be competing against others with a high handicap so whats the harm, and sure he is improving down to 38

if not, its a stupid move by the club

and is it any more embarrassing to beat someone better than you where you have to be given help no matter what the number, be it 10 20 or 30

dan_ep82

I played regular with a guy who has zero rotation in his lower body, it's a genuine medical issue. He was playing off the maximum handicap at the time which was 28 and it wasn't enough. If he played of 36 or 40 he might win on his best day and it would be fully deserved.

There are other very valid reasons for a higher handicap and there's nothing shameful in it, I'd be more embarrassed to hold that point of view. If they're constantly winning it's up to the system to apply appropriate cuts and as far as I can see it mostly works as it should, you will never stop someone determined to work the system.

Shank Williams

pretty poor form post above re 40 handicapper if that’s his real name

you have no idea of what his situation is

had a 30s handicapper win in my club recently with 43 points which was richly deserved - guy is 100% genuine

then on the flip side president’s last year won buy a guy in mid 30s handicapped who had submitted a grand total of 3 cards to that point and went way under his handicap

Ivefoundgod

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040686#Comment_119040686

While its a valid point I think if you are concerned about getting your best score for handicap purposes you need to be aware of this sort of stuff and hole out in that situation. At my club when you sign in for a comp you get a printout with your CH and PH on it that you stick to your scorecard so its clearly there that you do or don't have a shot on a hole. I play comps with the intention of putting in a good score to lower my handicap so its something I would make a point of knowing where I don't have a shot for the comp I'm in. Fair enough though that it would be easy to forget when starting out but I think at this stage people have no excuses not to be familiar with the WHS and how playing handicaps work.

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119040686#Comment_119040686

Totally agree with this about the flaw. Its the same in V Par, a "loss" that might only be a bogey still needs to be finished out or you get the higher score.

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119043326#Comment_119043326

You're correct, and I'm not picking an argument at all, but for the majority of golfers, they've been so used to picking up when they've no score on a hole - indeed they were encouraged to in order to speed up play, it was one of the so called benefits of stableford over strokeplay - its hard to get their heads round a new way. Effectively it makes all competitions strokeplay now, if one is concerned about maintaining an accurate WHS index. I'd hazard a guess and say the vast majority of club golfers don't know about this little anomaly or flaw. They may never even notice it in fairness, I only realised after a V Par competition last year when my score on the app didn't tally with what I thought I shot - a couple of times I missed a putt for a "half" and didn't bother with the tap in for a "loss" but was credited with a shot higher on each hole.

Russman

..

OEP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044706#Comment_119044706

This really is an edge case though. Think about it - it only effects 1 or maybe 2 holes depending on your handicap. You then have to have a score on those holes that's on the edge, and then finally you need to be unaware of this anomaly. The chances of it happening are quite slim and not worth adjusting a system. Maybe making golfers aware is the best and easiest way to go.

Salvadoor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119042747#Comment_119042747

I just posted publicly available information and made no assumptions about anyone's situation

Ivefoundgod

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119044706#Comment_119044706

Yeah and that's a fair point too. It probably depends on the golfer and age profile too whether they know about it. Personally I'm only recently back playing and have only vague memories of the old system where as I'm fairly up to speed on WHS. What's also a factor is I'm in my 30s, someone playing for years with the old system might not even have a smartphone whereas I login in to the app as soon as I've entered a score on the computer in the clubhouse to see what the differential is. My dad has the app but doesn't really use it at all, just enters his scorecard on the computer after a round and might check it occasionally. I suppose for most golfers that 1 shot isn't likely to make a massive difference until you are looking to get down to single digits and below. I don't think it does make all competitions stroke play though and there are still occasions when you should just pick up your ball. This scenario is very specific for whatever index hole your handicap happens to land on, so if you are a 12, then you need to be keeping an eye on PH for the index 12. If people don't know about this though then it is potentially a problem but they should spot it when entering the card on the computer anyway as it will give the correct score regardless of what you might have put on the scorecard. I suppose how likely is it that you are going to get caught out by this more than once a year.

I don't really know how you would fix this and it is a very unique scenario IMO, to me its up to the player to educate themselves on WHS not on the system to babysit them. Especially if they are that bothered about their index.

Russman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045176#Comment_119045176

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045308#Comment_119045308

Ohh I totally agree its not a regular thing. I don't even know how you would adjust the system and its likely not worth it. Communication to make people aware would be key imo. At the same time, for someone in single figures, having an extra couple of shots onto their gross score in, say, a V Par round (for no real reason other than they didn't know to tap in for a loss) could impact their handicap enough to be an issue for them. I agree it'll be a small number of cases though and not worth getting excited over.

Absolutely its the player's responsibility though and its a shame the pandemic hit when the WHS workshops were due to be rolled out. It would have been much easier to get the message across I think.

spacecoyote

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045605#Comment_119045605

Won't impact the single figure guys though. Got to have a CH of 11 and up for it to start impacting

10 * 95% = 9.5, rounded to 10

11 * 95% = 10.45 rounded to 10

Overall it is a fair point though that someone could pick up on a hole they would have a stroke on under their CH

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119045176#Comment_119045176

Or they could just fix it.

but the powers that be probably don’t even see the problem. Why not? Ask Bill from New York. Bill is a real person who I played golf with recently…….. in a competition!

Bill doesn’t like when his golf ball finds divots on the fairways. I offered him a tee but he was happy just rolling onto a nice lie.

what you have there Bill? “

Stick me down for a 6.

Scratch head, wtf 🤔wasn’t his drive in yer man’s garden there.

next hole

great putt there bill, you nearly got it.

Throw that back to me thanks. Put me down for a bogey.

🤷‍♂️

it’s an American system designed for people who don’t even play proper competition golf. Its like they never even entertained CONGU when they “combined the best bits “