Claire Byrne and Farage

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049643#Comment_118049643

Ah another Boards trope. The I have decided as arbiter of the conversation to say END.

Being anti bailout was to be against the decisions of the Fianna Fail government of the day not the EU.

Also the referendums had things people did not like which again is not anti EU but just negative to change that would have harmed Ireland like Lisbon 1.

I have never mentioned your anti Claire Byrne stance only your moaning about people on Boards who are having a laugh of a staunch English patriotic saying up the RA

ShagNastii

Bang of the modern day Late Late Toy Show.

A set piece produced exclusively to “get trending” on Twitter, FB and the like.

Scoffing at Farage is sooo passé. Painting him out to be a pillock is real lowest common denominator stuff. Shooting fish in a barrel.

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118042212#Comment_118042212

One "Union" committed a genocide against Ireland, was imposed and maintained by force, impoverished Ireland & the majority Catholic population faced systemic discrimination and when, following a war we finally left, forcibly partitioned Ireland to cripple the state under the threat of "immediate and terrible war".

The other protected Ireland's interests against the British attempting to starve Ireland, prevent medicines from arriving and wage economic war on Ireland, made Ireland one of the richest countries in the world and for the first time in 900 years have Ireland (or at least part of it) true independence (including breaking economic dependence), gives loads of freedoms to Irish people, was freely joined and can be freely left and is democratic.

Furthermore, historically France and Spain in particular have both supported Ireland against the British and served as refuges for Irish fleeing English oppression.

iffandonlyif

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049802#Comment_118049802

genocide against Ireland

That’s now taken as fact, is it?

and when we finally left, forcibly partitioned Ireland to cripple the state

Ignoring the obvious about an unwilling Ulster population threatening civil war, Ireland was a British state, so surely it was we who partitioned Ireland in leaving?

The (EU) protected Ireland’s interests against Britain trying to starve Ireland

That’s an outrageous falsehood. And I don’t need you to quote Priti Patel. If you’re going to, explain exactly how her quote justifies your claim.

France and Spain have acted as refuges for Irish fleeing English oppression

Many, many more Irish have fled to England, fleeing Irish oppression.

Faugheen

Jesus. Some amount of soup-takers here.

iffandonlyif

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049944#Comment_118049944

Yuck. You lot and your vile nationalist cliches.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049959#Comment_118049959

You are as bad thinking everyone in opposition to you is a nationalist.

I "took the soup" for 10 years and still would be if it wasn't for Brexit so try factor that into your we are all nationalists agenda

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049959#Comment_118049959

Would much rather be a 'vile nationalist' than someone who looks for any reason to look for sympathy for a divisive prick like Farage and an empire which ruined the livelihoods of so many countries, some of whom are still trying to rebuild following that disgusting regime.

This thread has been turned from a thread laughing at Nigel Farage to you going on a rant about Ireland having an anti-English mindset. The ultimate deflection.

As someone highlighted earlier, it's so easy to forget that boards is in no way representative of Irish society.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049802#Comment_118049802

Christ, so much historical revisionism there.

You honestly think the French and Spanish who had their own Empires would have granted Ireland 'freedom' had they managed to wrestle it away from Britain? I have magic beans to sell you if you believe that.

We have 'true' independence now, even though most of our legislation comes from Brussels?

Look, I am about as Pro EU as they come, but I don't live in a fantasy world that Ireland now is truly free or independent, unlike pre-1921.

We joined the EEC in 1972 and gave up a portion of our sovereignty and independence in the process in order to get rich and increase the standard of living of our people. That is a good trade-off, but people telling ya we are truly 'Free'.... sorry that ain't true either.

The EU has this thing called European Union Law which the ECJ and EUHCR rule supreme on these matters. No Irish court can overturn these laws. That is the deal we signed up to.

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051321#Comment_118051321

Neither France nor Spain had sectarian anti Catholic laws - the UK did.

Even upon joining the EEC, Ireland was economically dependent on the UK with 90% of exports going there and the Irish pound pegged to sterling. The UK changed their currency for the benefit of their currency, Ireland was forced to do the same. The UK threatened 90% of Ireland's exports, Ireland almost always did what it was told. That's not independence.

As regards the decisions of the citizens of Ireland to empower the European parliament rather than the Irish one to decide and coordinate trade, safety regulations and do so on a European basis to the massive economic benefit of Ireland - who are you to say they are wrong?

Most importantly, it is in any case trivial - just because the Brexiters were able to fool their population that handing over such rule making from the EU to the Tories would be "taking back control", as can be seen by brexit, the UK has in fact lost control .

It's lost vast quantities of wealth - and the wealth which you've acknowledged that Ireland has got through EU membership is an important form of independence - it brings with it the capacity to implement things. You can't build a children's hospital without money. You can't build social housing without money. There is not much point in being "independent" but stuck in a quadriplegic body.

The UK no longer has a say on the rules & regulations in its neighbours, its biggest market (50%) and the UK no longer has the power of the EU when trying to shape the world. It has less control over refugees, less control over its economy and less capacity to react.

Ireland does. And as can be seen in the brexit negotiations, Ireland had the power to control negotiations in a way that shocked the British. That was independence in action - so yes, I very much stand by my statement that within the EU Ireland is for the first time truly independent (or at least since 1168 perhaps).

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051884#Comment_118051884

The very nature of joining the EU means that you surrender much of your sovereignty to EU laws, that's less independence not more, no matter how much to try and spin it as "true independence". It's amazing how people go out of their way to try and say that black is white and vice versa.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052717#Comment_118052717

You can also vote to leave. Making independent decisions like this is independence.

If we willingly and independently sign up to a UN bill is that also surrendering (Brexiters do love the army talk) your independence

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052735#Comment_118052735

Consenting to your loss of sovereignty is still a loss of sovereignty, and when you lose sovereignty you're less independent. It's really straight forward.

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052717#Comment_118052717

If Ireland left the EU, Ireland would be back to being the UK's toy- let's not pretend otherwise. The mere fact that the Oireachtas would have nominal control of the pen that signs the documents handed to us by the UK would not make us independent. Furthermore, and as stated, having nominal independence to draft laws but having zero capacity or finances to implement those laws or to have those laws actually be followed is not "independence".

Ireland could draft whatever laws it wanted as regards airplane safety - but either they complied with EU norms or Ireland would be ignored by airplane companies.

Pretending fake or nominal independence to draft your own laws is the be all and end all of actual independence is a complete nonsense.

Somalia is not more "independent" than Germany - except in a really tortured usage of the word "independent".

Furthermore, as regards "legal sovereignty", that is not surrendered to the EU - it is pooled. "Surrendered" suggests that Ireland can never get it back - as shown by brexit however, any member state is entitled to "unpool" its legal sovereignty.

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052842#Comment_118052842

It isn't "lost", the EU doesn't get to keep it (Scotland truly did lose its sovereignty to England for example) - Ireland's sovereignty is pooled or lent - Ireland can have it back whenever it wants.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052842#Comment_118052842

By your logic, every international treaty is a loss of sovereignty. Signing up for charter of human rights, court of human rights etc are all losses of sovereignty? Meanwhile there's the increased freedoms we get from the EU. Free movement, ease of trade, far better consumer rights and quality control of goods. Then there's smaller things like I can go anywhere in the EU and not be charged outrageous roaming charges. Honestly it's a huge win for the average person.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118053001#Comment_118053001

You know fine well that international law sits well below national or federal laws, they aren't one bit comparative. A quick Google search, will show many sources I'm sure you use, saying exactly what I'm saying. Most legal academics will tell you the same, but I'm sure you know better as usual.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118053030#Comment_118053030

And you know full well that we joined the EU by choice as an independent country and not "under the boot" of the EU or whatever typical Eurosceptic nonsense you are regurgitating

PalLimerick

Farage is a shrewd operator. One of the main Men behind Brexit. All the hate here for him is from the losing side. Yes the UK has problems since Brexit but they will iron them out and will benefit in the long run.

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118053081#Comment_118053081

Except they and their exporters are now a rule takers and no longer can influence those rules; they've permanently dropped their economy by 7% - massively increased red tape and cost in terms of customs, vets; the need for expensive redundancy in terms of storage and logistics - rather than being able to pool with EU countries, decreased the freedoms for their citizens to work, retire in and move around Europe, reduced the effectiveness of their courts to operate across borders, reduced choice in shops, seriously damaged the viability of small businesses in particular, made it more difficult for their companies to expand around the world by making it much more difficult to expand into the EU "sandbox", turbocharged the pressure for Scottish independence; created massive instability in northern Ireland, disenfranchised and disillusioned British voters who were told they would get £350 million for the NHS, cheaper food prices and all of the benefits none of the costs of EU membership and fundamentally fractured their country.

I'm sure someone will benefit in the long term - but it won't be the British.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118053081#Comment_118053081

....will benefit in the long run.

There is zero evidence to suggest that this will be the case. Nothing that Farage, or other Brexiteers said in the lead up to Brexit, or since, has turned out to be true.

FFS, Farage himself said that if the vote was 52% to remain and 48% to leave, that the fight wouldn't be over by a long shot.

ancapailldorcha

I wonder what the UK would be like if we were allowed proper journalism and politicians (including failures like Farage) could be held to account. A man can dream.

steddyeddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118053030#Comment_118053030

A quick Google search will.....

Most academics will agree with me....

You know fine well.....

All of the hallmarks of someone not even confident or sure enough of what they're saying to explain it well.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118053511#Comment_118053511

Reminds me of an awful nutritionist I used to live with. She was lecturing me on chemicals and how bad they were. My vegan chicken has something called maltodextrin in it so to test her "scientific knowledge", I asked her about it and she told me to google it to which I asked what the point of her was.

Shao Kahn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052929#Comment_118052929

Yes, the same way you can have your penny back out of the wishing well if you want.

But everybody is strongly "encouraged" not to go dredging the bottom of that well for lost promises.

You throw your penny in, and you hope you get what you wished for. Some do, some don't. Either way, it's bon voyage little penny... nice knowing you!

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118053994#Comment_118053994

No. All you have to do to leave is trigger Article 50. Obviously, it's a stupid idea but it's as easy as that.

Shao Kahn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118053613#Comment_118053613

Actually, it's often more effective to stimulate someone's interest in their own nutrition. Giving someone a soundbite is less likely to hit home in the same way. Some people like to call it guided discovery, as you have to do a bit of the digging yourself after being given a useful heads up.

Ultimately, the goal is that you take an interest in your own nutrition - instead of being handed everything on a plate. (excuse the pun)

fash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118053994#Comment_118053994

While you may listen to anyone telling you you shouldn't gather coins from a fountain, that doesn't mean anyone else is that gullible.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118054107#Comment_118054107

Bollox. Nutritionism is a pseudoscience practiced by cranks. Imagine going to a garage to get a problem with your car looked at and the fool tells you to Google it.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118054373#Comment_118054373

Well done you are right after all what would Harvard know about anything ..........

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutrition/faculty/

By the way what has any of this got to do with the subject of the thread ?