David Collier's report on Antisemitism in Ireland
Comments
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dejavoodo said:
Would you ever come out with such categorical statements against any nationality in the world that is not Israel? To unequivocally tell all of us Israelis, regardless of the huge differences in our political views (to the extent that our former PM was murdered by a Jewish extremist), that the birth of our country was one big colonial crime and a mistake that should never have happened? have you ever confronted Americans, Australians or Canadians with the sins of their fathers, who flooded into places, already inhabited by someone else, quoting yourself - 'decided that it was theirs to begin with...which they had no attachment or loyalty"?
Frequently. And I never suggested that the answer to America's, and to a much lesser extent Canada's or Australia's internal ethnic problems is repatriation of everyone who went there from the other side of the world to their "original" countries. It's just not possible. If only because America is such a melting pot that most people there are of multiple ethnicities anyway. And as a further disincentive, given the generally crappy calibre of modern Irish Americans we would have an enormous amount of thoroughly objectionable people to accommodate? (Would you want the likes of Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly turning up at your airport saying "Hi honey! We're home!!"? 😲😲
There is a slight difference in attitude, however, between the general consensus of people in those countries and that of many people in Israel, whose views are articulated by the likes of Mr Collier. They acknowledge that their treatment of Native Americans, First Generation Canadians/Australians was reprehensible and wrong. There is also no suggestion that any such people be legally prevented from living where they want in those countries, have full citizenship rights and full rights to come and go as they please. Racism still exists in America, that is obvious, but it no longer has the unequivocal force of law to buttress it. An American Supreme Court today could not rule that "black people have no rights that any white person must respect". Indeed, the issue of reparations is being debated seriously in the US.
By contrast, the refusal by Israel to acknowledge that Palestinians who were intimidated, or violently removed from their homes in a process that began in the run up to the declaration of the state of Israel should have any rights to their property or to settle in the areas from which they originated is reprehensible. Many of the people who were evicted in 1947/48 are still alive. Very many more first generation descendants are still with us. But they are effectively outcasts in their own land.
The process of moving Palestinians out continues with the force of legal mandate. Evicting residents of East Jerusalem from property they have occupied for 70 years while saying that the reverse does not apply to Israelis, and the continuing appropriation of land for "settlements" in the West Bank on the pretext of military necessity shows that this process of dispossession is ongoing.
Also, in America in particular the natives are beginning to recolonise the country and the continent their ancestors had once occupied, much to the chagrin of many of today's white Americans. The second biggest country of birth of people living in the US today is Mexico. The Cherokees, Sioux, Cheyenne etc etc may have been largely extirpated but the descendants of the Aztecs and Mayans are coming back with a vengeance. This need not necessarily result in Armageddon, but America has some very serious choices to make about how it proceeds. The late Christoper Hitchens articulated it nicely in the last months of his life a few years back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An6CeNRCBvo
Israel will have to do something similar.
My grandparents emigrated to Israel in 1934. What exactly is the moral basis that gives you, an Irish person (I presume) who I doubt ever set foot in Israel, the right to lecture me about their 'crimes' in the country where myself and my parents, not you, were born? how is it that you know more about them than I know about your grandparents? Do you know where they lived? what they did for living? what where their relationship with their Palestinian neighbours? you probably do, as you know everything. But for the record - they lived in a tiny shithole in the Negev. There were no Palestinians in sight. They didn't force anyone out, didn't steal any land, didn't kill anyone, and had no intention doing any of that sort.
Actually, I have been to Israel. In the early 1980s I spent several months there (in another shithole in the Negev, actually 😀 ) not for any reasons of ideology or political commitment. I was young, footloose, on a gap year and heard on the grapevine how you could get board and keep for a few months in Israel by working on a collective farm. So I spent the winter there. I drove a tractor around a kibbutz so that some Israeli soldier could be freed up to drive his (or her) tank through villages in Lebanon, large parts of which were occupied by the IDF at the time.
You have a strong opinion about the Israeli - Palestinian conflict, and have the full right to express it of course. But since you are in the business of looking into other people's inner beauty, I suggest that before getting to us Israelis, you might want to start at home with your friends in the progressive left. The ones that denigrate Israel as a way of living, but have no problem praising the great achievements of the liberal and human rights Utopia that is Venezuela, denying the plight of the Uyghurs in China, and holding a memorial service to IRA men that detonated bombs near children and women.
I don't know ANYONE in Ireland who approves of the persecution of the Uighurs in China, or the Rohinga in Burma. Many have raised their voices in protest against these persecutions. But here's the thing: when Bob Geldof returned his Freedom of the City of Dublin award in protest at the fact that Aung San Suu Kyi had also received it, some people criticised him for being a publicity hound, a poser, a shallow shape-throwing rock star and other such relatively harmless taunts.
NOBODY called him a racist!
NOBODY who pickets the Russian Embassy regarding the treatment of gays/Ukrainians etc is called a racist. But if you criticise Israel, you stand a very good chance of being called an anti-semite......which is a racist. Israel is the only country in the world, of which I am aware, which deflects criticism of its behaviour on the grounds that the only motivation of those who do is racist bigotry. Perhaps that's why so many people are so determined to read up on the subject and form their own well founded opinions on it.
As for "my friends on the progressive left"......we don't have that sort of division in Ireland. Our system of choosing governments, while very different at first glance from that of Israel, tends to produce very similar outcomes, namely large numbers of political parties in the Dail (our Knesset) and governments that are formed post election by coalition. One of the few jokes one can get away with telling about Israel is the one that says "Put two Israelis in a room together and they'll form three political parties between them!". Our system is like that too, in sharp contrast to the "bipolar" systems of the US and UK.
And finally, let me ask you one thing: what do you care what Irish people think about Israel? You have nothing to worry about. Our interest is purely vicarious. We are not going to invade you (we don't have an army to do it anyway), our trade with you is miniscule and it's for the most part taken up with "invisible" items like pharmaceutical raw materials and computer/software components. BDS hasn't much purchase here because there's precious little Israeli trade to boycott anyway.
And I have never been a supporter of the IRA or Sinn Fein. Nor are most Irish people of my generation.
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If anybody is interested to listen to what that nice Mr Collier has to say, here is an interview he gave about how dangerous Ireland is to a somewhat partisan British Website. I will pass no further comment on what I think of this, er, person. Other than to say: "Investigative journalist my arse!!" He's a shill for the Israeli establishment.
Make up your own minds.
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