Spiking.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112209#Comment_118112209

That is some waffle. You couldn't handle your booze when you are younger. You don't think that you were spiked and you've never claimed you were. And yet you are using that as a justification to "prove" that someone else's story about being spiked is untrue. That is just weird

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112272#Comment_118112272

There's no waffle.

There were questions, which again...

You have ignored.

Even your interpretation of what was said is more than a little disingenuous and frankly its bordering on infantile. I find it hard to believe that someone can be as facile as your last few posts present you.

As for your notion that I proved anybody's story wrong🤷 I can only actually look at that and wonder WTF.

I do not need, want or seek to prove anyone wrong. Again, it's something I'd like you to me the courtesy of backing up your claim.

However as you honestly seem to be having comprehension issues that would embarrass your namesake, I'll lay it out for you.

Your anecdote, much like mine is inherently unprovable. I may even have just outright made up the story. (I haven't)the wire in my thumb and my continuing sense of embarrassment all too often remind me of the risk I placed myself at.

You have a friend who had a poor even an awful experience. That isn't evidence of drug based spiking, it is a story regarding a bad experience and without at least a toxicology report confirming to herself that she was drugged? It's a means of making some kind of sense of a loss of motor and functional control to am extent that left her horribly vulnerable.

My anecdote was to give an example of the effect that alcohol and alcohol alone can have on even a seasoned drinker. To illustrate that one's drinking experience has no bearing, zero on the impact that alcohol can have on a person.

It also serves to illustrate the commonality between an alcohol blackout and the purported effects of narcotic spiking.

Further, it serves to illustrate that those similarities can easily lead to one believing one has been spiked. Indeed that on some occasions being spiked may even be less embarrassing than the actual reality.

That grasping the comparison is beyond you, is honestly quite surprising. I do find it interesting though that rather than afford me a degree of empathy or understanding regarding the reckless situation I ended up placing myself in?

You instead revel in my not being able to handle my drink 🥺 Is that how treat all drunk people? His own fault, he should just deal with the consequences and move on? Hardly sensitive to someone in such a situation.

Now on to the lies you have lain at my feet. Will you do me the service of either proving where I said what you have claimed? Or retracting your comments claiming same?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112372#Comment_118112372

You're waffling again and going around in circles.

Your own personal little story about being a messy drunk is not relevant to anyone else who was actually spiked. I cannot comprehend why you feel it is relevant. It is a weird line of thought.

If someone tells me that they were the victim of an unprovoked punch outside Supermacs on O'Connell St, it would be a bit weird for me to say "yeah well where is your CCTV evidence ya lying prick. Sure I once got in a shoving match with the Healy Raes outside a chipper van in Kerry so I cannot believe you"

People can also be spiked with just alcohol too btw..........

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112401#Comment_118112401

Why do you keep bringing up the idea of a need for evidence or concluding the person is lying?

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112401#Comment_118112401

Not waffle, trying to break things down as gently as I can for you without resorting to crayons. Sorry if you aren't grasping it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112209#Comment_118112209

Feel free to answer the questions though 😉

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112401#Comment_118112401

What was your friend spiked with?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112438#Comment_118112438

I never questioned either of them for specific details but neither of them drink. (I don't drink either btw which may explain why I possibly have more friends that don't drink than the average person who centres their social life around pubs. When I say I don't drink I don't mean that I have never ever ever tasted it - but that it would be extremely rare for me to have a taste.)

I would say that spiking with alcohol is only really possible with someone who is already drinking it - i.e. getting a girl double vodkas when she thinks she is only drinking singles in her coke.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112474#Comment_118112474

Drink won't make any difference to a toxicology report.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112487#Comment_118112487

What is the relevance of that to the issue at hand? It doesn't mean drink can't be used as a spiking agent. It wasn't in the two cases I am referring to as neither person drank and drink is slow enough acting that you can realise that you are getting drunk even if you have never drank before. You can also usually taste it.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118111869#Comment_118111869

I forgot to ask whether you believe the friend was actually spiked in the second anecdote? Based only on the evidence that you gave here, she wasn't drinking and said she thinks she was spiked. Is that enough evidence for you to believe she was spiked?

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112401#Comment_118112401

I just want to highlight the hypocrisy at play here, in just this single post.

People can also be spiked with just alcohol too btw..........

This is the final sentence. It's true, noone has claimed otherwise and I've posted that it is the "common" mode of spiking and the academic/medical evidence posted supports that.

Yet in the same post's 2nd sentence, the very opening sentence of the same post by the thread's stable genius...

Your own personal little story about being a messy drunk is not relevant to anyone else who was actually spiked.

But they don't see the link, they don't see any link at all, indeed! Because in the same post? They tell us that.

"I cannot comprehend why you feel it is relevant. "

So just to be clear, people can 100% be spiked by alcohol. My story about being a messy drunk is unrelated to spiking or being spiked by alcohol or the potential impact of same 😉and! Donald cannot even fathom why a drunken blackout story bears any relevance to discussion on spiking.

Truly, Genius in action.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112509#Comment_118112509

So, we've established that they weren't spiked with alcohol. What were they spiked with?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112523#Comment_118112523

Well perhaps she made up the story for **** and giggles. Including the aftermath of what she went through, both in the immediate aftermath and for years afterwards trying to deal with it.

It's not in my nature to immediately doubt someone who tells me such things. You can do it yourself and sneer at, and express doubt to, any girl who ever might confide in you that she went through a similar ordeal when she was younger. That is up to you. The likelihood is that you know someone who went through something similar but you just aren't aware of it.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112534#Comment_118112534

I don't know atall atall. You not being able to hold your drink and choosing to fire drink after drink into yourself is not the same as someone deliberately tricking you and putting more alcohol into your drink than you expect without your knowledge or consent.

I wouldn't have though that that was a difficult concept.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112558#Comment_118112558

I'm actually with DT on this particular point. Their medical records are not ours, they have a right to privacy and we can't expect everyone making a claim of drug spiking to post their records, nor should we.

The arbiter for that is IMO the hospital and the police/Gardaí. Someone may very well administer a substance to someone, and then not see them again.

I don't think we can start shouting and grabbing pitchforks in the absence of a toxicology report 😉 nor should we be rushing to lynch people on the unevidenced assertion that "I was spiked".

As an example, on the back of the original reports of needle spiking with "multiple strong drugs" last week? Some lad had his photo shared multiple times with claims it was him and imploring people to keep an eye out.

Now again, justice is the realm of the Gardaí, it's not down to any user to investigate. By the same token, one of the reasons proferred on this very thread for the multiple stories and claim of drug and counterclaim? Was that toxicology takes time. It does, and by extension other than a very basic drugs of abuse screen the results of any Tox screen would take some time longer than the original claim and accusations took to fly around twitter.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112558#Comment_118112558

Well I didn't see the point in demanding to see copies of any test results or medical reports for things that had happened years and years earlier.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112564#Comment_118112564

So is the answer to the question i asked Yes?

You outlined some of the options, I could think they made it up, i could sneer at them, but the approach i would actually take is the approach i outlined earlier.

Could you just confirm if you understand the difference between functionally accepting something as true (or likely true) and belief based on evidence? There's no shame in not understanding it. But it would be instructive to know if you understand the distinction or not.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112617#Comment_118112617

But without a toxicology report, or even some someone saying "Olanzapine or Midazolam" was found in my system, they may as well say they were abducted by aliens or they had an out of body experience for the hours they were "blacked out".

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112579#Comment_118112579

Where did I say that I fired drink after drink into myself?

You keep making claims as to things that have never been said, why is actually discussing what is in my posts an issue for you?

Just to clarify, this is what was written. On a personal and wholly anecdotal level. I have managed to get myself into considerably dangerous situations solely via alcohol. As 39y.o a few years ago. Blackout drunk yet functioning "as normal", getting myself over the course of 45minutes from completely lucid, jarred but lucid. To arrested, with a fairly serious injury (inflicted by Gardaí but completely and understandably so in their efforts to restrain me). I have zero memory of the 45 minutes, the arrest or of time spent in custody until @ 7am. From 2am to 7am is a blur at best with not a single memory I can say is a certainty.

Now at no point did I mention how much I'd drank, how quickly or indeed what it was. Yet you leap to it me being unable to hold my drink, drinking to excess rather than someone dropping me extra measures? Why's that? Why could it not have been someone trying to incapacitate me? I mean at that point I'd 24yrs drinking experience behind me...

But the condition I ended up in, was noone else's fault? Not even remotely possible? The mere possibility of alcohol being imbibed rapidly but without my knowledge in the time prior to that incident is immediately discounted by you? And it's my own fault?

Why's that?

Edit

Added "without my knowledge"

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112708#Comment_118112708

You are not a judge interpreting a statute. You either accept something or you don't.

I gather that your stance is as follows:

1) You would accept your male buddy's story about being randomly punched in an unprovoked attack outside Supermac's 2 years ago

2) You would accept your male buddy's story that he went out, had only two drinks, got unexpectedly wasted from them, went home and slept for 18 hours 2 years ago

3) You wouldn't accept your female buddy's story that she went out, had only two drinks, got unexpectedly wasted from them, and woke up 18 hours later in a stranger's bed 2 years ago

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112715#Comment_118112715

I used that very analogy myself on this thread not so long ago.

And on the point of making claims of drug spiking, I agree. Without evidence of same, it's a claim and should be afforded the same credibility. The instance (is there actually 1 or 2?) That kicked off this thread is being investigated however and that's where the records and the veracity of the claims lie. It is a Garda matter and one I hope they investigate fully.

The thing is, and I agree with this. That investigation is between the victim, the guards and the DPP.

We can't demand, nor should we be able to someone's medical reports.

The credibility afforded to such claims in the absence of a report, and in the face of the current research would tend to point towards a no, for me at least without it.

That is why I took such pains to describe how quickly alcohol can impact even the seasoned.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112781#Comment_118112781

If there are a batch of fake €10s around I'd expect the Gardai to release a statement saying there's a batch of fake €10s around, be vigilant and here are how to spot a fake.

If people were being injected with a foreign substance, I'd expect the Gardai to release a statement saying people are being injected with a foreign substance, be careful and here are the signs to look for.

That this hasn't happened makes me think its fake, fear mongering, and attention seeking (which the new TikTok generation of kids seem obsessed with). I wonder how many extra followers she got before she deleted everything?

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112837#Comment_118112837

You're preaching to the choir on this one, with regards to needle spiking at least. I made my own thoughts on it clear earlier in the thread and I'd very much agree with our resident pharmacist when he gave his thoughts a few pages back.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112761#Comment_118112761

Right on the first 2 ( i would functionally accept them) but wrong on the third one.

Could you do me a favour and directly address the question i asked in that post you quoted?

"Could you just confirm if you understand the difference between functionally accepting something as true (or likely true) and belief based on evidence?"

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112962#Comment_118112962

Donald doesn't answer questions. He has objectively lied regarding statements made on this thread and has ignored requests to either show what he claimed or retract.

I wish you better luck with him than I've had.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112962#Comment_118112962

So you would believe the third one? That's not really consistent with your posts though is it? She has only just told you the story and hasn't provided you CCTV evidence of her entire night showing she only knowingly consumed 2 drinks and has no signed witness statements that she woke up the next day in a strangers house.

My friend who can't drink for medical reasons but ended up in hospital isn't to be believed but your friend who had two drinks would be. You might want to take that up with Banie01.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113034#Comment_118113034

It would depend on the details of the story (which you haven't provided) so yes, I would probably functionally accept that were spiked, the same as the other two stories. I think your confusion is that I said earlier that i would be more sceptical of an additional claim that they were syringe spiked, for the reasons I outlined earlier.

Could you do me a favour and directly address the question i asked in that post you quoted?

"Could you just confirm if you understand the difference between functionally accepting something as true (or likely true) and belief based on evidence?"

Can i just take it for granted that you don't understand the difference and are just a bit embarrassed to say so?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118108844#Comment_118108844

I’d say getting hard data is difficult enough, but like child sexual abuse and issues like that. To have proof two things need to be satisfied. First, the substance has to be detected in a timely manner in the blood. Secondly it has to be determined that the consumption wasn’t voluntary,

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113164#Comment_118113164

You are trying to dance on the head of a pin with your guff. People are either telling the truth or they aren't. You either believe them or you don't. You appear to be trying to come across as smart but it is backfiring pretty badly on you.

Yourself and banie01 appear to have difficulty accepting that spiking ever occurs. So you dance and hop around the place half saying things but then pretending you didn't say them. The rest of us get it though. You will believe your male friend who says he was spiked but not the female friend.

Well sorry, you accept that the male friend was spiked but the female friend story has the qualification that "it would depend on the details of the story". Even though I gave you equal details for both. I copy and paste both below for your reference:

2) You would accept your male buddy's story that he went out, had only two drinks, got unexpectedly wasted from them, went home and slept for 18 hours 2 years ago

3) You wouldn't accept your female buddy's story that she went out, had only two drinks, got unexpectedly wasted from them, and woke up 18 hours later in a stranger's bed 2 years ago

NIMAN

We had 2 women on local radio here in Donegal this morning, claiming they were spiked.

The host said he wanted to get it some airtime as the media hasn't been covering the subject much. He must have been under a rock for the last month.