The coming conflict over Taiwan

cnocbui · 31-10-2021 2:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097602#Comment_118097602

I thought it was common knowledge and beyond the need for links, at this point, but since you seem out of the loop, knock yourself out: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=china++hack+india+grid&t=ffnt&ia=web

Of course anyone who asks for 'reliable links' actually doesn't really want any provided and will just assert them all to be 'unreliable'.

I didn't mean morals at play within the NSA, but more of a realisation by their political masters that such behaviour wasn't going down too well with supposed 'allies'. After the Merkel phone hack fiasco, It wouldn't surprise me if some leaders of countries like the UK and Australia asked some blunt questions at GCHQ and Pine Gap about whether the US was abusing their network access privileges (and the myriad others in Oz) and hacking their own phones. If the US hasn't back peddled on this stupidity, they deserve being disconnected from their feeds if discovered.

This is all getting too far away from the issue of Taiwan, which should now be recognised as an independent country, because past assertions that doing so might spur China into more aggressive actions, now seems risible. Cut China slack and they don't feel gratitude in any way, they see it as acknowledging the legitimacy of their absurd utterances and just misread the mood in the same way Iraq is supposed to have misconstrued the US position regarding Kuwait, leading to them invading.

Diplomacy is a crock. Speak plainly and mean it.

Stupid diplomacy and appeasement are the root cause of the current Taiwan situation. Had the international community flipped China the bird - as they should have done, 30-40 years ago and recognised and treated Taiwan as a country, this situation wouldn't be happening.

31-10-2021 2:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097692#Comment_118097692

That makes no sense. The NSA operated for years before being caught. That was the point of the investigations into NSA operations, because they had been operating outside their brief for extended periods.

It makes more sense, based on past behavior, to assume that the NSA are still operating, and just doing a better job at not being caught.

Gatling · 31-10-2021 5:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097417#Comment_118097417

Pretty much yes ,

Countries have been sending rockets and missiles into space and back since the 50's

Two years back we hear China has developed a hypersonic rocket ,wow they are suddenly top dog , nobody else has them and America is so far behind them and no chance of catching up ,but wait America has been flying hypersonic aircraft for nearly 40 years ,and suprise in less than 18 months they have multiple hypersonic missiles and so have russia.

General Mark Milley said that it was concerning ,but for years we've been hearing about russian super weapons that Will automatically launch if Russia feels threatened yada yada yada .

So yes I don't get excited of nk, russia,iran , China launch rockets

Gatling · 31-10-2021 6:06pm

I prefer that time the US tapped russia undersea communications cables for 20 odd years Until someone told them 😂

Manic Moran · 31-10-2021 6:13pm

Its worth remembering that during the Korean war the Chinese volunteers sent the American army on its longest retreat ever.

Which was then reversed, and cost the Chinese over 200,000 dead (if you look at the official Chinese figures) or 400,000 if you use US estimates. Not a great precedent to look at. Hopefully the Chinese have moved on from attempting to solve issues by just throwing lives at the problem. I'm not sure it would be so well received domestically these days.

31-10-2021 6:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097848#Comment_118097848

Stupid diplomacy and appeasement are the root cause of the current Taiwan situation. Had the international community flipped China the bird - as they should have done, 30-40 years ago and recognised and treated Taiwan as a country, this situation wouldn't be happening.

There were a variety of reasons why Taiwan wasn't recognised other than just that it would piss China off, including the fear that Taiwan would return to its authoritarian/nationalist politics.

I must admit I'm a bit bemused by your attitude relating international diplomacy, because you seem to expect some kind of special talent should have been applied when dealing with China, but ignore that the rest of the world has been handled pretty badly for decades.

Lastly, this situation would be happening regardless of international recognition. Taiwan is considered by Chinese people to be a core part of their national territory, just as they did with HK. If you believe otherwise, you don't know Chinese people or their modern culture.

31-10-2021 7:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097595#Comment_118097595

No direct evidence here, but I'd trust a two party system over a one party system as there are more checks and balances in place(The other party) and as we've seen especially as of late they really do hate each other over there.

Chinese company Pax Global Technology stock fell over 43% this week. This comes after World pay from FIS began removing Pax terminals earlier this month reported by bloomberg. It no longer deployed Pax point-of-sale (POS) devices, "because it did not receive satisfactory answers from Pax regarding its POS devices connecting to websites not listed in their supplied documentation", FIS said. Their base in Florida was raided by the FBI earlier this week.

KrebsOnSecurity reported the raid was tied to reports that PAX’s systems may have been involved in cyberattacks on U.S. and E.U. organizations. Following the raid, a senior executive in charge of PAX Technology's security resigned.

Do we have any similar threats to worry about coming from US companies? Or are U.S. and E.U. organizations performing these kind of attacks on China?

Un1corn · 31-10-2021 8:58pm

My opinion. China is a paper tiger. They can't even keep the lights on at home ffs. A war would obliterate them. I reckon the Chinese army is so corrupt that it's pretty useless.

archer22 · 31-10-2021 9:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118098688#Comment_118098688

The only reason it was 'reversed' was because the Chinese supply lines became over extended and they couldn't deliver the final killing blow.Chinese casualties would have far far lower if they had been able to make that final push as they had the momentum up until then.

Anyhow they still achieved their original objective of liberating North Korea and pushing American forces well away from the Chinese border, a lesson America never forgot and the reason America did not invade North Vietnam during the Vietnam war as it would have taken them once again to the Chinese border and a repeat of what happened in Korea.

It was an amazing feat by a light infantry force that not only saved North Korea but helped save North Vietnam from American occupation as well.

31-10-2021 10:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118098939#Comment_118098939

No direct evidence here, but I'd trust a two party system over a one party system as there are more checks and balances in place(The other party) and as we've seen especially as of late they really do hate each other over there.

Not even remotely related to what I posted. Still... let's go with it. Why do you have to trust one or the other? The US political system is very corrupt, with voter manipulation and fraud with actual counting. Then, there's the aspect that the vast majority of US presidents were wealthy, and connected deeply to various lobbies before being elected, and multiplied their personal wealth by incredible amounts while in office.

The US is not a shining example of what a democratic system should be. There's no need to choose US politics over Chinese politics. They're both wacky beyond belief.

Do we have any similar threats to worry about coming from US companies? Or are U.S. and E.U. organizations performing these kind of attacks on China?

Now that's a rather strong deflection since the topic we were discussing was the activities of the NSA, who have been linked to monitoring communications of Germany, and have increased their range of activities over the last two decades. The point being that you (I can't remember if it was you or another poster) made the claim that they weren't up to their old tricks... and I said they're just making less mistakes. Neither of us can prove anything.. but based on their behavior over the last two decades, and the state of American politics, it would make the most sense to assume that they're still as active as ever.

Yurt2 · 31-10-2021 11:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118099224#Comment_118099224

The PLA brass spent the best part of 30 years lining their own pockets. For the longest time, they resembled the shambolic armies of Egypt and Pakistan who used their status within the State for their own enrichment. To his credit, Xi has made a big effort in stripping the ill-gotten assets from top PLA officers and forcing them to divest from any and all business interests they may have. The rot runs deep though and the US Army is an institution with two centuries of professionalism behind it.

01-11-2021 12:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118099833#Comment_118099833

Very true, although there's little that Xi could do about the military feudal system due to the power that rests with various general staff, and how deeply rooted the overall system is. These generals have too much power to be slapped on the wrist and won't be made to disappear.

There is a core element of the PLA which is highly professional, and well equipped. Part of that is Xi's attempt to turn the PLA away from the communist attitude towards big divisions and more towards what the US themselves did. The other part, though, is that the PLA itself is composed of many officers who take their professions seriously, and their leaders have established very solid regimental training regimes for themselves (probably out of a desire for self-preservation too).

The real problem the PLA faces is with the motivation of their troops, problems with physical changes in Chinese people, and a shortages in equipment. Any military that large will have issues supplying and maintaining all their forces equally.. Considering the amount of tech needed for most military unit commands, it's expensive to outfit everyone, and many units aren't going to be properly provided for... for all manner of reasons, since corruption and Chinese culture plays into this aswell.

China is a mostly a slightly better prepared Iraq, without the personal experience of combat, and little experience of having their overall forces activated at the same time (with the exception of forces in the South).

14-11-2021 2:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118079875#Comment_118079875

Along with plenty of failsafes in place to destroy or deactivate the warhead before it goes too far.

What failsafes would those be??

jackboy · 14-11-2021 2:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118099224#Comment_118099224

Depends. Are the Chinese capable of hitting American cities with nukes? If yes, then they may still get obliterated in a war but so would the other side.

Gatling · 14-11-2021 10:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118164533#Comment_118164533

Don't think any one knows for sure if they have the ability to hit US cities with nukes,

We know they have a new glide hypersonic missile wether or not that can be armed with nuclear warheads is a different story ,

We don't know how many they currently possess ,

But as we learned over the last half century America can strike 24/7 anywhere in the world China has a proven track record of military successes outside of the Korean war ,at one stage russia wanted to nuke China as a deterrent after a minor skirmish ,

If China hits America that could lead to unintended consequences

14-11-2021 10:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118166931#Comment_118166931

If China hits America that could lead to unintended consequences

The US has been very up-front about what any kind of nuclear attack on US installations would involve... a full nuclear response. There is no confusion about what would happen, and the CCP are not run by complete idiots.

The only way that China would use nukes would be if regime change was inevitable. It's a weapon of last resort when used against a country. They might use tactical nukes to neutralise the US navy in the South China sea, but it's highly unlikely they would be deployed against the US mainland. Such an action would guarantee all Chinese officials ending up on the wrong side of a criminal war crimes investigation, with the same results as what happened to the nazi leadership.

Shao Kahn · 14-11-2021 10:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118164533#Comment_118164533

Yes, they are. But nobody is firing nukes.

I don't think China are a paper tiger, they are the real deal.

America's military power is over-hyped. China will have been watching them floundering in the middle east. I don't think they particularly fear America on their own. But western/global views of China can be shaped by America - which is the biggest danger for them.

The Aussies seem to think some sort of war is imminent. But then this could also be a bit of propaganda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt3vns42Nd8

Gatling · 14-11-2021 10:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118166981#Comment_118166981

I'm thinking if China hit America , north Korea could attack the South and russia might think if they have balls to attack America we could be next and hit china first even though they are allied who would they trust more ,

Russia Vs the US doesn't need a cold war or any war they check and balance eachother to a certain degree , but china Vs anyone else is more dangerous

14-11-2021 11:39pm

The coming conflict over Taiwan

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