Climate Bolloxolgy.

Dempo1

God its going to be a painful two weeks listening to the shyte (no pun intended) coming out of COP26, even Boris Johnson in on the act, that buffoon wouldn't know what climate change was if it slapped in him the face.

Shrieking Greta arrived yesterday to much fanfare yesterday, apparently she's Annoyed (something new 🙄) about not being officially invited 😒

Interesting news feature on Channel 4 news last night about the hypocrisy around who's actually sponsoring this event, from Banks (Natwest with over €500 million in fossil fuel industry), Pension funds, oil companies, even of all people Glasgow City councils pension fund who have 100's of millions invested in big energy. Indeed some saintly sponsors have spent millions fighting legislation tackling climate change.

Two weeks of hot air ahead and its not methane from cows backsides that's the cause 😏

_Brian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096818#Comment_118096818

Will they just create conditions that force a drop in the National herd as a byproduct is the question.

nitrates derogations, forced wild areas, limiting N spreading, increased slurry storage capacity.

there are many ways this could be achieved

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096844#Comment_118096844

That was the general thought around here also. Make it the farmers idea to reduce

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096844#Comment_118096844

Thats precisely whats happening here. The investment required and the variable day to day cost of these measures will force many to take the decision to quit.

The expectation is that age demographics will play into this and that labour shortage will inhibit the expansion of the remaining farms to the extent that numbers will remain static for the shirt term and slowly reduce from there on.

They are putting the tools in place whereby CAP funds will be accessible to those doing less and Nitrates will control stocking rates and densities.

This slower death by a thousand cuts is far more implementable than a stated reduction in numbers.

The notion of a just transition for farmers is that the pain will be back loaded and not all applied at the one time.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118090442#Comment_118090442

The idea that people need to eat is the one thing in this that isn't entertained.

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096924#Comment_118096924

Also means no compensation needed

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096705#Comment_118096705

Could you not come up with a better name for us, at least be a bit more inventive like this chap https://history.hanover.edu/courses/excerpts/111stalin.html

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096794#Comment_118096794

This is a qualification from a newspaper. That same qualification is not forthcoming from the Minister, even at the mart "consultations".

The political decision around this, while might be agreed, is still not set in stone.

A week of farmer hatred from Glasgow, if the narrative should turn that way, could put a government agreement of static herd in a difficult place.

Static herd is only part of the narrative.

The measures to be taken to reduce emissions are costly. There is a 30% grant towards the cost of a slurry spreader, but then you'd have to change to a more powerful (and heavier fuel consumption) tractor. Most will have to use contractor, no grant aid, no carbon fuel tax relief.

Protected Urea (if available) is 20% dearer than Urea.

Multispecies swards will take 10 years to rotationally establish on farms...cost €850/ha..

The cash cost of this reduction would be enormous, and it looks by the way CAP funds are to be distributed this time around, that help is only forthcoming towards reduction in numbers and not towards mitigating technologies, like what will happen in every other sector.

The "threat" you refer to was from a KPMG report that if Irish Food Production had to endure a 30% cut in emissions, it would mean the liss of 56,000 jobs.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096967#Comment_118096967

I would have a lot more sympathy with your comment if Ireland were even remotely farming for self sufficiency in food.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095820#Comment_118095820

link?

mr.stonewall

As farmers I think the kernel of the issue at the moment is that we are not getting any credit for the sequestration of carbon that occurs on our farms daily. This is the good stuff and yet we get no credit for this. It's simple accounting carbon out carbon in, this surely would give a true reflection of what is happening and would help to find common ground in this debate, which has become very polarised, and thus preventing progress.

This is final piece of the jigsaw that is missing. If farmers had this info, this would make change easier

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097003#Comment_118097003

The same way we are self sufficient in cars, and TV's and computers and clothes and fuels and peat??

That has to be the world's most ridiculous narrative..

Goods are produced all over the world. They end up specialising in the area's of the world where they can be produced most efficiently.

That means goods cost less to the consumer and you end up only having to work a 38 hour week (if you work) to enjoy the trappings of whatever chyte from all over the world that you want to buy, or travel to whatever corner of the world you want to head for on your short break.

What's not factored in from an effe iency point of view is the environmental cost of goods..

I'll give you a hint on that one...if that cost was to be applied to the consumer, we'd have to milk more cows in Ireland..

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097023#Comment_118097023

I am not certain that after about 20years farm soils sequester any more carbon as they reach an equilibrium. I am more than willing to be educated on this.

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118093874#Comment_118093874

When we're these emissions allowances granted and how did a business qualify and on the basis of what period.i take this is Europe wide but what's to stop a company manufacturing and move it to China and sell its allowances.one more who runs this allowances system

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097008#Comment_118097008

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/e1-95-million-pilot-project-launched-for-wicklow-hill-farmers/

that's to show payment for putting cattle and sheep on mountains as one way of controlling vegetation.

It's also a mandatory part of the Glas scheme to maintain minimum stocking rates on commonage where you have commonage.

Here's a link where they paid farmers to destock mountains.

https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/50hd-compensation-for-commonage-destocking-26027043.html

magicbastarder

i see no mention of anything supporting the claim that sheep are good for biodiversity. which i find incredibly hard to believe.

it just seems to suggest they are possibly changing some practices to help conservation status.

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097049#Comment_118097049

Your full of information. misinformation 😂😂🙄🙄🙄🙄

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097003#Comment_118097003

Ah shure youl be alright, the supermarket will still stock the tasteless Dutch vegetables grown on land reclaimed from the sea.

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097070#Comment_118097070

You don't understand how biodiversity works then.

Controlling vegetation will allow other plants to compete rather than being smothered out resulting in greater biodiversity. There's a knock on effect for wildlife too.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118094156#Comment_118094156

The state would have to pay to provide 3-phase electricity to all farms and businesses affected. Since ESB will charge somewhere around 30K a pop; that's going to be expensive. Greenies think taxpayers have a near infinite amount of money that can be squeezed from them, despite a lot of them with mortgages and hardly a spare couple of euros to rub together.

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097003#Comment_118097003

Ireland can grow most things but consumer won't pay any extra

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097071#Comment_118097071

I researched this some years ago in relation to another claim that intensive stocking was a panacea to climate change. Land which is deficient in carbon because of intensive agriculture sequesters carbon for a few decades once it is managed appropriately but once it reaches a saturation point it emits as much as it sequesters. This was in the context of the American plains so it might not apply to Ireland - but I would certainly need to see some strong evidence to change my opinion.

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097049#Comment_118097049

Well there is more areas than just soil that form carbon storage.

Firstly we have to consider trees, hedgerows and non productive areas which have a secondary benefit of bio diversity. These all store carbon while in growing. These areas on most farms make up anything from 5-15% of most farms in this country. I personally don't know how much carbon these areas store and and emit.

Secondly we have to look at the main source of feed that is used in this country, grass. Approx 95% of cows and cattle diets here in Ireland and other countries which are grass fed. This sequesters carbon during its growth. I have yet to see figures on this. This is quiet important as the volume of grass in Irish animal diet is huge. This will form and element of a closed loop or close to closed in the livestock sector for countries which are grass fed. Each farm will be different.

Other areas to consider would be the carbon footprint of inputs produced outside the farm gate. Fuel, grain imports and electricity

The farmer can only control what happens inside the farm gate. Key metrics of what happens with carbon on farm are urgently needed.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097117#Comment_118097117

Sheep at appropriate stocking rates are indeed good for biodiversity as they stop scrub crowding out plants, but often sheep have been heavily overstocked and caused significant loss of biodiversity as a consequence - they produce a mono-culture and encourage erosion.

The reality is maximum biodiversity in Ireland can only be achieved through appropriate levels of grazing of all types of stock. The problem is the level of intensification we have seen in the last two decades has the opposite effect.

Abandonment of marginal land is one of the greatest threats to biodiversity in Ireland.

ginger22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097396#Comment_118097396

You seem to be an expert on the subject, perhaps you could list your qualifications.

VillageIdiot71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118094894#Comment_118094894

Indeed. That's because I suspect Dutch vegetable growers are to be emulated, rather than criticised. And I don't begrudge Irish farmers anything, because they haven't much to begrudge.

Like, there's another thread on the go right now with a guy speculating if his best strategy is reducing livestock to the bare minimum needed to claim subsidies. Just on simple grounds of making money. And here folk are talking as if the existing products produced by Irish farmers are a source of huge wealth, and as if livestock numbers are sacrosanct.

The state of ye.

VillageIdiot71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118094936#Comment_118094936

All very convincing, if the Dutch weren't able to overcome the same challenges. And get their products onto Irish shelves.

And it's not like they've a tropical climate. Half the place should be under water, and sea water at that.

The absolute state of ye.

Dakota Dan

Funny how the clowns pushing the climate farce are forever saying it will make food scarce while they are the ones making nonsensical rules to do just that. Most of the land in Ireland is only suitable for grass and the best way to convert grass into food is with livestock.

VillageIdiot71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095705#Comment_118095705

No, that's just another trope. Like I said, Teagasc include the checkout operator in Tesco Ireland, selling you imported stuff an amount of which isn't even food, in their estimate of jobs generated by Irish agriculture.

On the other hand, the FDI sector contributes something like 80% of our Corporation Tax and 50% of income taxes including USC. Nothing fake in them dollarz, and lots of problems if FDI starts falling because of international tax changes.

Because if all we'd to live on was the proceeds of Irish agriculture, half of us would be emigrating to Bulgaria because of the high wages on offer.

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097396#Comment_118097396

Your correct about having the right stocking rate and neither extreme is good.

The intensification over the last 2 decades has only been in some areas with the most productive land, in more marginal areas there has been the opposite as during the era of coupled subsidies these were pushed to the limit anyway.

There has been major intensification in dairying mainly in the south since abolition of milk quota. Many areas of the West have little enough dairy.