Climate Bolloxolgy.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065143#Comment_118065143

Try and explain green water blue water to them when it comes to their avocados...they will look at you like you have 12 heads

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065691#Comment_118065691

Sold out ? Do you mean current farming practices ? Current land owners ? Current entitlement holders ?

Farming has been reliant on subsidies and controls since God was a boy -

Those controls and subsidies change at the whim of depending on government policies.. and currently most governments want to reduce CO2 emissions - farming and food is a big part of that , far from the only -

From an Irish farming point of view there's money to made ,but probably not by trying to cling stubbornly to practices of the last set of subsidies and controls ..

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065403#Comment_118065403

By the middle of 2023 the whole landscape will have changed on the environmental agenda, and food security will be alot of governments number one priority with the green agenda gone out the window, supply chains worldwide are breaking down and spiraling inflation is going to tank economics and with it the grand aspirations of governments like our own with their green lead agendas will blow up

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066028#Comment_118066028

EU, one of the most affluent places on earth, will have no issue acquiring food. Just look at the supply of Covid vaccines.

A fully fed EU will continue to use farm resources to offset the burning of fossil fuels.

Fossil fuels mean lifestyle..

That's not going to change.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066131#Comment_118066131

If Putin decides to turn off the gas our simply limits it into the EU over the winter months we will see just how affluent the EU is, when governments start to go woke just like collages etc, things don't be long going to sh**t, in a very short space of time

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118063476#Comment_118063476

That would be germany which is going to continue using lignite until 2038 (4x the emissions of gas) and which refuses to introduce a speed limit on motorways - we should tell them to get stuffed until they get their house in order.

The only thing that matters and will make a difference is demographics - building 40k houses across the country annually for a evade will do nothing for our carbon footprint or indeed our GDP per capita; govt should say "we stop child benefit after two kids" and see how that goes, at least that would be more honest than the current approach

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066162#Comment_118066162

We need an LNG terminal to give us access to global supplies now; we can't be relying on an interconnector with the UK

Markcheese

I don't think that too many kids is this country's big problem any more 🤔...

But there are a lot of people to house and that does have a carbon footprint ..

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066197#Comment_118066197

Demographics is a global issue, not just Irish.

And everyone needs a big house; as families have got smaller, the average house (and car/SUV) size has grown

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118065112#Comment_118065112

I'm referiing to any cost accrued, There's no one going to absorb a cost if they can pass it on

When you sayjust counted, do that mean that it's not charged for

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066028#Comment_118066028

Without sounding like I'm wishing suffering on others,I hope your right to a degree..the problem is it will be the ordinary joe and the weaker in our society that will feel the pain most. European beaurocrats, central bankers or Dail tds won't go hungry.

The amount of money that has been put into the global system is crazy, am I right there is 33% more money in the world than pre covid..seems a bit ott now but maybe they know what they are doing. The landscape is changed massively anyway that's for sure.

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066001#Comment_118066001

I am not saying that we should cling to the subsidies . The subsidies are there because the consumer has not paid for what has been produced .At least not since we joined the then EEC .

The overall thrust of the CAP has not changed that much over recent years. Keep the food on the shelves in plentiful supply and keep it cheap.

carfinder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066344#Comment_118066344

That's a fanciful view on subsidies. The simple fact is that food production is more efficient elsewhere and if left to open market forces (on a global level), a lot of food production in Europe would cease. That is the reason for subsidies - to ensure food security i.e. the subsidies are to make up for inefficient food production NOT to subsidise prices for consumers!

techman1

The 2030. 50% reduction in carbon that the EU has signed up for is not happening, people will not accept carbon taxes on already expensive fuel, already the politicians are feeling the push back. OPEC have played this brilliantly, they have restricted supply, got the price of oil back up and frustrated moves by governments to impose the carbon taxes, effectively OPEC are now collecting the carbon taxes as well,

The technology to move to zero carbon is still decades away and is very difficult stuff, yes we may have great communication technologies but energy is a different story, we are still highly dependent on fossil fuels. Just because a politician or a media head announces something does not make it happen. Talk is cheap

Also as the OP pointed out agriculture has been unfairly targeted and the producer countries like Ireland rather th a.the consumer countries like Germany are being lumped with the carbon penalties. But Saudi Arabia does not get lumped with carbon penalties for producing oil, in that case the consumer countries get lumped with the carbon penalties. Nobody questions why this is the case.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066178#Comment_118066178

Pippa said today on Week in Politics that we don't need one....that the gas isn't available anyway🤔

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066362#Comment_118066362

Where is this food being produced more efficiently and without destroying the environment ? Or are you saying that they should continue to burn down the rainforests and ship food halfway round the world ?

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066372#Comment_118066372

There's a planning application gone in near here for 5 gas turbines and 250 shipping container sized batteries and they say it'll be a sure thing to get planning

carfinder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066385#Comment_118066385

I was challenging your post regarding subsidies. It would be nice if you debated the points I raised rather than introducing issues I didnt raise. Market forces determine consumer food prices - do you accept that subsidies are there to ensure food is still produced i.e. a producer subsidy rather than as a consumer subsidy?

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066362#Comment_118066362

What makes it more efficient elsewhere..cheap labour and less regulation not climate or soil types in general.

What type of efficient food production would you recommend for ireland. When stacked up against any country in the world with all factors properly counted for ie water use, "NET" carbon emmissions, quality, safety, protein conversion..etc. I'd say our current beef,lamb and dairy models are pretty damp efficient. With some room for improvement too no doubt.

divillybit

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/pig-farm-wins-court-battle-against-epa-653945

Bit off topic, but I loved this court's report from last week's farmers journal, in which the judge rightly dismissed an epa case taken against a pig farmer. The epa's case was based on a subjective 'sniff' test rather that actually measuring the offending odour particles as per their protocol.

Most epa vehicles I see on the road are lancruisers. Seems to set a very poor example to the general public when they are driving vehicles with such a low mpg, and the rest of us trying to cut our carbon emissions

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066028#Comment_118066028

Thats a bit contradictory though as the most intensive/factory type farming is the one most exposed to input price pressures. At the end of the day there is huge waste in this space in terms how much produce on farms actually gets consumed (some studies put it at as low as 50%!!) and then there is other related issues like the obesity epidemic that is now starting to seriously impact middle income countries like Mexico and India.

Furze99

The elephant in the room for farmers here in this state is that the general non farming public are going to be increasingly hit with carbon taxes. (Yes, they effect agriculture as well but that's beside the point). The same public are then being told that part of this carbon tax burden will be used to compensate/ fund farming. Then they hear that the industry reps of same refusing to countenance any change in stock numbers and so on.

This has the potential to sow major discontent. When taxes & policies hurt, they've got to be seen to affect everyone proportionately. So to some extent it's all about PR and the message. How you sell these ideas to the public at large. There's already a perception that farming gets a big divvy out from the EU etc. Of course you can argue that this is price of 'cheap' food but people also know that it's often the large industrial type enterprises that hoover up most of the payments. And that's not the green message either. Work to do.

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066745#Comment_118066745

Fair points too, balance like everything in life.

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118066448#Comment_118066448

The primary producer sells at a loss . The subsidy partially compensates primary producer for that loss . The consumer benefits by having a regular supply of cheap food available at below the cost of production . . Percentage of income spent on food has steadily fallen over the decades since subsidies were introduced .

Is the same consumer now insisting on reducing emissions from agriculture ? Even with subsidies there won’t be many producers left putting up with that approach .

K.G.

Simple question on calculating emissions.does agriculture get credit for the co2 used in production of crops grass

Beechwoodspark

Anyone who thinks climate change is “bollix ology”, read the uninhabitable earth by David Wallace wells.

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118067777#Comment_118067777

Maybe I'm misreading the thread, but I believe most people believe climate change is real and an issue...but the measures that are being proposed to combat it are weak as water and full of hypocrisy

lalababa

A lot of wind, solar and interconnection to UK & French grid. And a lot of trees. Some bog management. A little bit more tillage and veg. And a little national herd 'stabilising' ......what's not to like?

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118067777#Comment_118067777

Personally I do belive the pointless level of consumption that is going on in the world is having an affect. My concern is that I m starting to question the methodology of how emissions are calculated.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118067745#Comment_118067745

Good question, and I assume something is released into the atmosphere if we didn't graze it and it dies and starts to rot