Climate Bolloxolgy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118427488#Comment_118427488

I can't tell you anything beyond what is in the article

However peatland restoration / rewetting is going to be done to as many bogs as is feasible, so this type of proposal only further encourages the rollout of it and should hopefully speed things up in that regard.

roosterman71

And the rewetting of bogs has it's own challenges related to flooding of surrounds, etc

mickuhaha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118427845#Comment_118427845

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118403011#Comment_118403011

Hate the new site am unable to do anything !

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118426915#Comment_118426915

Will they pay appropriately for the environmental schemes and if you enter into something like rewetting will that land use be locked in stone thereby devaluing the asset forever (I mean devaluing in terms of what food/revenue it can produce if the environment schemes won't pay)

Then if enough go for it and enough demand is there for food and its price increases due to more land being non productive in terms of food....thus making food production more profitable the contrarian in me thinks **** them and their meddling unless they pay properly and its guaranteed and rights aren't eroded I might maintain the ability to produce.

Another part of me thinks these assholes pushing this were the chief architects of causing a lot of the climate/loss of biodiversity and squeezing the primary producer in favour of big business.....not anxious to get fooled again.....I suppose what I'm saying is I'm all in favour of increasing biodiversity etc but I'm not anxious to get ridden by the same pricks that are in my eyes largely responsible for causing the problem by not leaving a living in a sustainable system.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118429342#Comment_118429342

In fairness, any bogland which is being actively farmed is unlikely to be suitable for rewetting anyway. Its probably beyond the point of restoration.

My guess is this is more focused on the bogs that are uncut but drained or still being actively cut but where a substantial area remains uncut, making restoration a feasible option.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118429388#Comment_118429388

I only know of a couple of bogs in my local area an surrounds that would fall into that category

Some work done on them but turf not really suitable for fuel,not the good quality black stuff so as a consequence still largely intact and only encroached on a bit around the edges......would there be enough of unfarmed bogland like this to make a significant difference? ...are we talking rewetting all of bird na mona bog/bog of allen?

I am aware of studies being conducted re carbon capture in rewetted bogs and transfer/transplant of sphagnums to get bogs accumulating again and have a net intake of carbon but are there enough suitable sites that aren't actively farmed to make a worthwhile dent?

I'm not against the idea as I think I have a basic grasp of the science and the data does show they start taking carbon in + can be good for many native species/biodiversity and perhaps even a tourist/local amenity....I am against being screwed however.......

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118429472#Comment_118429472

Its likely to be determined on a case-by-case basis given that there will be so much variation across the board

As for being screwed, don't get me wrong, I understand there are issues, not least of which in terms of using it as a fuel source but even in that regard there are significant gains to be made which will allow for a viable switch to alternative heat sources. For example, insultation alone can cut heating bills by a massive amount and allow for lower heat output sources to become viable options e.g. heat pumps.

My own place that I bought recently was built in 2005 but the builder and subsequent owner did a hell of a good job with insulating the place so I only need to switch on the gas heating for 30 mins in the morning and 30 mins in the evening and I work from home so I'm here all day. In saying that the gas boiler is the original one so its pretty crap and I don't get hot water from it (fault) so its something I'm looking at upgrading, either for a heat pump or a higher efficiency boiler but we're saving at the moment to do a lot of upgrades all at once so it will be a while yet.

As for getting something back from the rewetting/restoration, carbon credits are a real thing and are traded at a global level among nations and companies and will likely to do so for a very long time as there will always, even after 2050, be industries etc where its not possible to fully mitigate against climate impacts. The carbon credits are there as a penalty/incentive to motivate to switch to more sustainable options. Tesla is one very good example of this where they make bonkers money selling the carbon credits they are allotted, to other car companies.

How to bring that to a local level, thats for the program itself to figure out, but it will be happening as its the smartest way to provide a long term revenue stream and encourage take-up with the least impact for the central exchequer.

Dinzee Conlee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118429553#Comment_118429553

Would any sort of re wetting need to be agreed by all people in an area, like the greenways? I imagine you couldn't rewet one farm, without impacting your next door neighbour? I stand to be corrected here though, as don't know a lot about bogs, thankfully 😉

On the carbon credits - if the arse fell out of carbon credits, but farming incomes took off - could you drain the land again and start farming I wonder?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118430094#Comment_118430094

Carbon credits won't be going anywhere any time soon.

Came across this tonight while looking for something else, gives a bit of info on bogs, rewetting and the role it all plays in terms of climate impact, might be of interest to some

https://youtu.be/OBeGRq7ACKA

_Brian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118419200#Comment_118419200

I’m sure plenty here old enough to remember that we had a 5p return on glass bottles here up to late 70’s

bogman_bass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118427611#Comment_118427611

Be careful what you wish for. If land owners own the carbon credits does that make farmland even more attractive to large polluting companies with deeper pockets than farmers?

green daries

But that is what he's wishing for its an environmentalists wet dream 🙄ed Sheeran and company who buys up all the dirty polluting farmers land and plant it and hey presto everyone is saved

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118431595#Comment_118431595

Ed Sheeran isn't buying land to save the planet. He's doing it to save his money. Owning land is very tax advantageous, especially when passing on your wealth. Dyson has done the same thing. Even Michael O'Leary is at it here locally and I'm sure many more are too. Land is finite, and it's value nearly always goes the one way - up.

Mooooo

Would be better off if there was no carbon trading. Ag and forestry are the only sectors that consume carbon, keep it within the sectors. Let every other sector stop/ reduce producing carbon and the world will be a lot better off

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118432949#Comment_118432949

Think each farmer is entitled to the return from their own farm.

Wouldn't think it would be fair to have a scenario where some can continue to increase emissions on the back of using the reductions of other farms.

Its a bit like when CAP was introduced..there were massive winners and loosers that time. We've got to fair to all on this one.

If farmers had a central trading system, controlled and owned by farmers, those selling credits could have some oversight of market returns, and farmers looking for credits would have access to that farmers carbon stock.

If we get to a point where some farmers increase emissions on the back of others reducing, there needs to be a proper trading system to co.pensate for this. There will be surplus and shortage in such demand, and this is where farmers need that trading system to connect to outside markets....but importantly farmers need to own and control that platform.

roosterman71

Farmers won't own it! Christ lads, cop on. There's no way farmers will be let own this. What will happen is that some "scheme" will be set up and farmers will get a few euro per acre for their work. Lets call it an environmental scheme! And the credits then are controlled by the department who will sell them on to whoever. Probably fossil fuel companies who will then plaster ads all over the shop saying how "green" their fuel is. It's only green because they've bought credits from the government. A few years down the line when this is lucrative business, it will be sold to a private business and the payment in the schemes will reduce/stop.

Bottom line, farmers/landowners will see sweet **** all of the money that will change hands but will still be hamstrung by regulations and limitations as to what they can do on their own land.

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118431638#Comment_118431638

Correct everyone is at it. but ed is spouting off about saving the planet 🙄

Mooooo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118433370#Comment_118433370

Fair point, I guess I was viewing it in terms of airlines, car manufacturers whatever offsetting what they produce into another sector as opposed to doing what they can within.

If it can be kept within sectors what you suggest could happen but I'd imagine if it's broken down into individual entities the argument would be made why should alps or mooooo operation offset against another entity if Micheal O Leary can't.

Great to compare myself to Michael O Leary lol

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118439517#Comment_118439517

He might pay better than the cows😉

Mooooo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118439608#Comment_118439608

Hes not far off having enough ground himself!

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118439665#Comment_118439665

And he's buying anything that comes up in Westmeath. I know of 4 fields/plots in 3 different parishes that he's bought in the last 12 months.

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118439841#Comment_118439841

Least he’s farming, lots doing same not farming

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118439841#Comment_118439841

Hes gotten into bother now with the land. He's stretched himself abit thin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118440906#Comment_118440906

Are you planning a hostile takeover?

Reggie.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118441248#Comment_118441248

I wish. He hasn't enough machinery or men to work the land he has. That's the sort of bother he's in atm

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118439665#Comment_118439665

Had the pleasure of a visit there 20 years ago...good farmer too..

wrangler

One of my tenants does a good bit of work for him now so it's an ill wind that does no one any good.

Mooooo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118442189#Comment_118442189

Was up there as well. He is in fairness to him, Farm manager is excellent as well.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118442694#Comment_118442694

But he has massively increased his holdings in the last couple of years.

Another local stud farm is reputed to have 5000 acres and buying more.

Mooooo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118443129#Comment_118443129

I know yeah, more tillage is the aim for it afaik. Anyone in that sphere tho where there are negative interest rates etc, land is a big option, esp when he is buying it at somewhat normal prices compared to the likes of coolmore paying double ag values