Black History Month Ireland, why?

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118121174#Comment_118121174

I haven't been dishonest you just don't like what I've said. Like the guy who stomps out of the bar saying he won't ever come back but is back the next night, you said you were finished before..

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118121326#Comment_118121326

Fair enough.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118122003#Comment_118122003

Some are. Some are darker than many African people.

vriesmays

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097828#Comment_118097828

Haven't a clue. Still trying to figure out why multiculturalism means more Africans instead of Asians or South Americans or people from Greenland.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118126954#Comment_118126954

Mostly because both the Right On and Right Wing are positively obsessed with skin colour and the more "exotic" the better. "Multiculturalism" and "diversity" doesn't seem to count unless the differences are clear. If every person of a Black African background left Ireland tomorrow we'd still have German, Polish, Brazillian, Indian, Czech, British, Latvian, Spanish, Chinese, Italian and so on people living here. There are double the number of French people living here than Nigerians. Six times as many Poles. However the focus by the rightwingers, media and NGOs is pretty much always on Black folks. Even this Black History Month is an example. Now we've heard from some saying well "if the [insert diapsora here] want their own month then they should lobby for it" which is fine, but Black History Month didn't need any lobbying, it just happened as a matter of course. Who was asking for it? The Black community here? I very much doubt it. More like a small number of loud voices, supported by some in the media.

This "Multiculturalism" and "diversity" is also very much one way. By that I mean it's only the White, European, nominally "christian" West that seems to be in such dire need of diversity to improve itself. You don't hear those calling for it also calling for more pale faced diversity in Black cultures. To suggest a country like say Uganda is in real need of a decent percentage and cultural representation of pale Europeans to be a better nation and culture would cause hoots of horror at the very notion. And for once they'd be right.

There seems to be a few reasons for this: The European psyche has long had a hankering for the exotic, the "oriental". The aftermath of nationalism gone very wrong in WW2 (understandably) caused the pendulum to swing the other way, where the very idea of any sort of nationalism and national identity is considered beyond the pale. The ex imperial nations of Europe had their chickens come home to roost after the fall of those empires again post WW2 for the most part(and mostly used their previous subjects for cheap labour). "White Guilt"(again understandably), often in the form of a misplaced and all too often patronising charity caused a major shift in the swing of that pendulum. The influence of American social politics is another major influence as they badly navigate that clusterfcuk of race hatred, mostly IMHO by patronisation, papering over the cracks and platitudes. Nearly 60 years after Dr King had a dream, the most common cause of death for young Black men is murder and African Americans are five times more likely to end up in gaol. If Black Americans were thrown in the clink at the same rate as White Americans the US prison population would drop by half.

AckwelFoley

@wibbs not sure where you got the statistic but there's no where near twice the number of French here over Nigerians. CSO figures in 2016 have it at about 10k French nationals. There's probably twice that of Nigerians

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130709#Comment_118130709

Here's more 2016 CSO data which disagrees with your claim. Interesting too that the CSO spotted there is more than one country in Africa!

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp7md/p7md/p7anii/

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130709#Comment_118130709

Actually you're right. 18000 Nigerians apparently(the wiki on Ireland's demographics has them at around 6000, so that's wrong). They're the largest African diaspora here. That's if the figures are to be relied upon of course. Considering we've apparently 20,000 illegal, pardon me, "undocumented" non nationals living here. Still though, my point stands. If there were no Africans living here we'd still be a "multicultural" nation with nigh on a couple of hundred thousand non Irish residents.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130752#Comment_118130752

Yea. Figures are varied depending on source. I'm not arguing against your point, just the stat per say.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130749#Comment_118130749

I read that too, but the census and general cop on will tell you there's more than 10k Nigerians in tje country.

I live in athlone. I personally know 1 French person. .and countless nigerians

If RTE are doing this they really should be doing an Asian History month before a Black History month, I would say the Asian community for the first real large influx of non European immigrants into the country and i am looking forward Eastern Europe History month in the future as well.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130764#Comment_118130764

I have no idea but the CSO trumps Wikipedia for me, even cop-on at times. I actually know quite a few French people and maybe one Nigerian, though one can see a smallish number who might be, in the community. If you go to certain parts of Dublin you'll also imagine there are huge numbers whereas other areas will suggest there are very few.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130786#Comment_118130786

Yes. But I've downloaded another cso file of 16k Nigerians in Ireland.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118126954#Comment_118126954

Possibly because we generally see the biggest groups of immigrants as European so much the same as ourselves. I'd also suggest that some of the loudest voices in the debate are African.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130798#Comment_118130798

Fair enough but what point are you trying to prove with this? It's a tiny part of the total numbers of immigrants living here.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130809#Comment_118130809

No point at all. I was addressing a static wibbs made.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130786#Comment_118130786

That's a large part of it. Multiculturalism has a very strong tendency to be an urban thing. For obvious reasons as that's where the jobs and housing and schools etc are concentrated. Add in that diasporas the world over strongly tend to settle among their own in communities. Again for obvious reasons. So depending on where you are the perception can be skewed.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130829#Comment_118130829

That's correct, but ironically, the list of areas with the highest % of foreign nationals are in the countryside. Usually backwaters with a meat a factory that quite frankly need an injection of new DNA in the gene pool.

I think the national average is 10%, where its as high as 1 in 3 in places like Gort

Cordell

The gene pool nonsense again, well, if we are going this way then why not try to only get the good genes?

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130845#Comment_118130845

That's correct, but ironically, the list of areas with the highest % of foreign nationals are in the countryside.

Ireland seems to be a bit of an outlier in this. In most other European nations multicultural society is almost entirely urban based. Maybe it's because the change was so rapid here and these are only the early days of things?

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130845#Comment_118130845

Ah, but Gort will eventually deliver a whole national football team of Brazilians to us! They've also been there a very long time.

vriesmays

Gort the robot from the day the Earth stood still.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118131032#Comment_118131032

It's probably due to the size of the overall country, and also the manner of Irish urbanisation, where most of our cities are really just big towns as opposed to the kind of setup that cities generally have elsewhere.

I suspect skills/education and the costs of living are a major part of it too. Dublin is expensive to live, and unless you've got a decent job or pretty good welfare supports (or the support of family nearby) it would be difficult to remain there. Many of those from 3rd world nations will struggle to have the skills/education needed to meet the requirements of employment in the city areas. It's different with other nations, as many of their cities grew out of the historical manufacturing/textiles zones.

mondeo

I'd be very interested to see an Eastern European history month. I'm interested in the Polish in particular, let's hear their story.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118130983#Comment_118130983

Oh dry up. I'm joking

ululator

Genuinely good ideas are an easy sell. They require little effort and next to no convincement as the inherent quality of the concept is nearly unquestionable. Self-evident.

Bad ideas, on the other hand, are an extremely hard sell. They require repeated, often unending attempts at convincement as the inherent stupidity of the concept is forever questionable. Self-evident.

Anything that needs a yearly, month long reminder of how it's a good idea is almost certainly due to the fact that it's underpinnings are, actually, a terrible idea.

wildeside

Seems to me to be an American cultural important that allows some people to feel good about themselves.

"...the reason this race-consciousness is being promulgated so strenuously by wealthy, white, college-educated liberal elites is because it allows them to feel superior. For their parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents, living as they did in a society that was not colorblind, being colorblind was truly progressive socially. Now that being colorblind is fairly common, they need some way to make themselves feel better than Joe Sixpack the blue collar man. So they reject the ideal of a colorblind society and think that everyone should be hyper-aware of race again, while simultaneously adopting a patronizing, paternalistic attitude and holding oneself out as an "ally." And of course, living in their secure, gated communities, or exclusive Manhattan high-rise apartment buildings, or wherever, they are quite well insulated from the corrosive effects this is having on society. It really is just as T.S. Eliot said: "Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm -- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves." - Random YouTube Commenter

https://youtu.be/uLU4YlC1NXI

Fishdoodle

Is it just a coincidence that Black History Month stretches into Black Friday …… a bizzare fusion of history and consumerism resulting in seemingly epic bargains!?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215696#Comment_118215696

Did you think about your comment when adding the quotation? Because they seem to be at odds with each other. Black History month in the US, as with most things is politicized. It carries a wave of propaganda to shape the minds of those watching it. Its not simply about people feeling good about themselves... as your quotation from the youtuber confirms.

African Americans don't want a colorblind society.. if they did, then there would be serious efforts to bring it about, rather than the constant references to their race being a distinctive feature. The sad fact of the matter is that being a victim has become a core part of the identity that African American activists, and other activists promote. The double standards throughout that quotation are pretty obvious. The application of certain standards to "wealthy, white, college-educated liberal elites" (although it should be noted that such viewpoints are common throughout the US socio-economic society), while ignoring the behavior of African Americans, especially that behavior over the last two decades, which has focused strongly on the victim narrative. Remember during the overall BLM period, the range of groups that came out in support? There were a variety of them who believed, and promoted the belief in "Black power", and connected to that, racial superiority of Black people.

Now, I wonder will you be defending your contribution, or expect everyone to just accept it?

wildeside

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118216109#Comment_118216109

What I was calling out through that quotation I referenced was the "white, liberal elites" complicity in the push for the primacy of 'race' in modern political discourse (2nd only to gender identity I would say). I'm not implying that African Americans are not also complicit in this, they are, and have fallen victim (pardon the pun) to the 'victim' narrative to a large extent.

Sorry if I wasn't clear but I think we're actually thinking/saying the same thing.