Acceptable Covid death rates

skimpydoo

Stephen Donnelly was on Prime Time earlier and part of his and the government's plan to combat the latest Covid wave is to have people behave responsibly. Something Donnelly think is easily achievable. Sadly as we know that's not the case, so don't be surprised if another lockdown is around the corner.

Deeper Blue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118110210#Comment_118110210

Why would another lockdown be around the corner? Hospital numbers are reducing

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118109695#Comment_118109695

whether it may be necessary or not going forward is not an answer we can give you since we don't have all of the information that would be required to make that decision.

if everyone does what they are supposed to do however, i would suspect we might be able to avoid another lock down now that we have a high vaccine rate, but that is just my own personal view based on the information that is available.

investing in more ICU beds absolutely should happen, but it's not as simple as going out and buying a bunch of beds as i am sure you are aware, you need to staff and equip them and that does take time.

you have to get all of the tenders together so as to decide who will supply everything and that takes time, as well as training the staff which takes even more time.

so unfortunately it cannot be done over night, or done quickly.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118110354#Comment_118110354

if everyone does what they are supposed to do

What does that mean?

What is everyone supposed to do?

oookkkaaayyy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118110354#Comment_118110354

I agree. But the government had more than enough time to sort out the icu beds issue. Here's an, perhaps extreme example of what should have been done: business insider .com how china built a new hospital in ten days (I can't post links but Google that to see what I'm talking about). Obviously we don't need one as large as that facility but if the government had of collectively rubbed all 5 of their braincells together then we'd be in a better position than we are now. The staffing issue is a tricky one but it can be solved with investments into hiring and training new staff. Here's an article stating this: www. irishexaminer .com Investment in ICU beds and staffing long overdue, warns consultant.

Fred Astaire

They hired 1% of the 73,000 applicants for the Be on Call drive.

They can take a running jump before daring to talk about staffing numbers. Absolute spoofing cretins.

noodler

ICU beds are a misnomer for me.

Take us up the EU average overnight, fine, click of the finger, what does that mean? Does it mean 3000/4000 cases a day are sustainable?

Does it mean regular hospital capacity won't be impacted (because of the interconnected nature of hospitals)?

No to both really.

We probably need an elective only hospital or a covid only hospital but these are years away even if the will was there.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118110455#Comment_118110455

more then enough time in that increases were needed long before covid certainly, but realistically if they had started just as covid hit it is unlikely that the needed increases would be here now, at least not the staff.

to be honest no western country would be able to build infrastructure as quick as china.

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118110354#Comment_118110354

How far along are they in the process? Have they started? 😄

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118110744#Comment_118110744

Yep. 65 ICU beds open and staffed and another 20 on the way by January . Need about 80 more for our population needs , at least, but medical and nursing staff with the qualifications take a bit longer .

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118110754#Comment_118110754

I see there was an increase of 7 in 2017, 8 in 2018 and 6 in 2019 so some of the increase from 2020/2021 would have already been planned anyway.

It's not great is it to only have an extra 50 or so when we are this far into a pandemic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118110367#Comment_118110367

Not surprised he didn’t answer this. This nonsense gets repeated again and again.

skimpydoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118110311#Comment_118110311

Cases are increasing and a lockdown would be used to stop a hospital surge.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118110841#Comment_118110841

Or maybe he just didn't stay up all night reading boards.ie. In fairness the question was posted after 11pm last night and it isn't half 9 yet.

What do you think should be recommended that people should do if they want to minimize the spread of covid? Should they:

A) Pretend it doesn't exist. Sure doesn't medical evidence from Facebook says if you pretend it does exist, then you can't catch it and it will go aware

B) Follow simple guidelines such as washing hands and also wearing facemasks in crowded enclosed public areas. Get your vaccine when offered. Make sure you get your booster when offered. If you have any symptoms, isolate and have a test done.

AdamD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118110367#Comment_118110367

I'd love an answer on this. They usually imply they people shouldn't be socialising indoors, shouldn't attend busy pubs or nightclubs, shouldn't attend large events or matches. And Fintan, if everyone does what they're supposed to do we'll be able to keep pubs, nightclubs, events and matches open. The behaviours they attach to keeping society open don't actually match with society being open.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118111320#Comment_118111320

How can we be more than 18 months into this and you still don't know what the basic recommendations are?

1) Wear mask in crowded public areas - especially the likes of public transport.

2) If you have symptoms, isolate and get a test done.

3) Take your vaccine, and any booster, when offered

It's no wonder that that the numbers are flying up. How have you not noticed any changes over the past 18 months compared to previously? Did you not realise that something was going on?

AdamD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118111664#Comment_118111664

All of those things are the very basics, and they will not keep numbers down.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118111664#Comment_118111664

Wear mask in crowded public areas - especially the likes of public transport.

But does this include arenas like nightclubs and gigs? Is it realistic to expect people to do this? And if not should they have been allowed to reopen at all?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118111675#Comment_118111675

You'd better get onto the scientific and medical communities with your findings. Those lads have been wasting their lives researching and putting those techniques into practice for years when some randomer on an internet message board could have just saved them a lot of bother and put them straight.

How on earth do you come to the conclusion that people isolating and getting a test when they have symptoms won't keep numbers down??????????

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118111708#Comment_118111708

No. The recommendations are that you can get away without masks in certain circumstances. There is a level of infection that is manageable. But we have to keep control of it. So you have to prioritize - do you want to wear a mask in a nightclub (and close it down if that is not obeyed) or do you want to wear a mask on a bus?

If people won't wear the mask on the bus then we might need to close the nightclub. Take the easy wins to keep the numbers down to manageable levels to allow things to get back to somewhat normal

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118111708#Comment_118111708

It's probably not realistic at this stage Loaf. Pathogens have evolved alongside humans and really got a boost when we started to live in crowded urban environments in large groups. As such evolution positively selected for taking advantage of human nature. Lockdowns aren't sustainable because of human nature. During historical pandemics of significantly more deadly pathogens commentators noted how after a while you would have people throwing caution to the wind because they understandably needed some sense of normality back. If that was the case with horrors like plague and smallpox with death rates between 30 and 60% across all age groups, never mind lifetime effects on those who survived, what hope do we have with a pathogen that many see as a little worse than the flu that only kills the very old or already sick.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118111732#Comment_118111732

But isn't this a difficult, nuanced position for the government and public health authorities to take? If you're telling a teenager who is extremely unlikely to be seriously affected by covid that they should wear a mask on the Luas, are they not going to turn around and say "Why is it okay for me to go to a nightclub then? Is there any rhyme or reason to these guidelines?"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118110759#Comment_118110759

Not just any nurse can staff an ICU bed. ICU / Critical care nurses are very specialised and there are dozens of vacancies at the moment the HSE can't fill.

I think Goldengirl would know a lot more about that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118111664#Comment_118111664

We’ll have to wait for End of the Road to reply and tell us what the right thing is in his opinion.

We know for a fact that masks and social distancing are not going to stop a respiratory illness.

Over 90% of us went and got vaccinated. So I’m keen to understand what the right thing is.

Im sure he’ll come back with some nonsense like just because you can doesn’t mean you should. Humans doing normal things are to blame in that case

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112119#Comment_118112119

But you do accept that face masks and social distancing reduce a respiratory illness?

skimpydoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118111800#Comment_118111800

Teenagers may not be seriously affected by Covid but they can still be carriers and spread it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112172#Comment_118112172

We wouldn’t have 4000 cases a day if they were working so well.

And I know somebody will say it could be 10000 without masks but there is no evidence to back that up.

The UK removed the mask mandate back in July and their cases never spiralled and are actually dropping now.

We were also doing grand before the mask mandate in Ireland.

The obsession with masks is bizarre at this point.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118111800#Comment_118111800

Not really. You can also look at from the perspective of personal choice and necessity. It is a necessity for people to use public transport. There are plenty of people who can choose to go to nightclubs or not go to nightclubs. You could make the argument that those in the nightclubs are accepting that risk by being there. Those that are sitting beside you on the DART are not.

Regardless, I would think that most people should be able to understand that that reductions in the spread of infection can be made everywhere and if we do the easy ones then it allows for other things to go ahead.

If they refuse to enforce mask wearing on trains or Luas under current circumstances I would accept them having a maskless car for those who won't wear a mask. Let them all pack in together. From a public health management perspective it would not be an ideal thing to do.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112300#Comment_118112300

People aren't wearing them jacdaniel. That is why the numbers are going up. Do you not realise that numbers were much less when people were observing guidelines properly?

It's analogous to you deciding that seatbelts don't work, yourself and your three passengers refusing to to wear one and then, when the one in the passenger seat gets a serious injury in a relatively minor tip, going and suggesting that that is proof that they don't work.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112359#Comment_118112359

They are wearing them. Compliance continues to be through the roof. They are very popular.