Acceptable Covid death rates

Piollaire

Current acceptable levels per Leo Varadkar:

Hopitalisations:800

ICU:150

Deaths: not specified - each one is a trajedy

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus/new-restrictions-can-be-avoided-if-numbers-remain-stable-says-varadkar-1.4713443

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089119#Comment_118089119

10% alright, but for you own for effort there. You are clutching at straws, You link is about outdoor activities when the issue at hand is gobshites standing cheek to jowl in a queue outdoors. It's another example of a "facebook proof".

Question for you yourself to answer honestly. If you knew someone had covid, would you stand right beside them on the street and have a conversation with them for 20 minutes?

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089067#Comment_118089067

OK Einstein, how does a club that isn't open for another 2 hours supposed to manage a public footpath?? As your buddy said, Coppers doesn't open until 9, the queue was there from 7.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089115#Comment_118089115

Have you managed to realise that your great "gotcha" about limiting what is allowed when driving doesn't work because there are already plenty of restrictions related to driving that people accept?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089230#Comment_118089230

They also accept the risks, which includes death and injury.

Do keep up.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089226#Comment_118089226

That is part of them running their business. They are legally obliged to mange those things. Irrespective of covid.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089241#Comment_118089241

If you think people are behind you at this stage, it is because they have already lapped you a fair few times.

There are plenty of laws and rules restricting who can and cannot drive and under what conditions. And we have laws and rules governing public health. (Most) people accept the former as they understand the reasons. (Most) people accept the latter as they understand the reasons. Some have difficulty with both. Some apparently understand one but not the other.

I hope that you can make the link in your own mind eventually.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118088763#Comment_118088763

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118088785#Comment_118088785

Just by being alive you put yourself at risk of death everyday.

As a society we try to minimise that risk by putting laws and rules in place.

For example if you murder somebody you go to jail, that's a deterrent. If you drink drive you lose your license. Yes those laws are in place to protect lives.

There is no such thing as an acceptable level of deaths. The target is always no deaths.

We try to improve and evolve as time goes by. People live longer healthier lives today than they did 20 years ago. Why do.you think that is?

Now we've got a virus that won't say no and we've got to do everything we can to eliminate it.

The reason it's become so prevalent is stupidity emanating from greed. That's not just financial greed but those who are unwilling to give up their first world creature comforts for the greater good.

So basically anybody looking at acceptable covid death levels has an agenda which has nothing to do with the greater good.

Podge_irl

Have you lived alone without coming into contact with any human being for the last 2 years? Because if not, you truly have not done "everything you can" to eliminate it.

Anyone who pretends that public health decision making does not necessitate discussions of trade offs and finding acceptable levels is either utterly naive or willfully ignorant of reality. The aim can be zero (it will never be reached), but absolutely not at all costs. There are untold measures that we could take to reduce the spread of all kinds of disease, but we do not take them.

The argument here is not over doing nothing or taking some steps. I understand the language can be a bit upsetting/offputting but the cold reality of life is that we need to balance the restrictions and steps taken until we reach a level of Covid illness and fatality such that further restrictions would be deemed a poor trade off. If you want to call that level something more palatable than "acceptable deaths" then go nuts, but it doesn't change the reality.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118087980#Comment_118087980

I have had many family members and friends die of many things, some of those could have been prevented.

A friend of mine died of lung cancer caused by smoking which could have been prevented if we ban cigarettes, but I am not asking for that. The thing is, Covid will always be with us, the WHO have said it will become endemic, and like the flu. People will always be at risk of dying from it, and we will have to accept that there will be some level of death rate from Covid acceptable to society.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089417#Comment_118089417

I'm fine with all that. But it won't bring the death rate to zero, so are you now saying that the resulting death rate from these measures is acceptable?

Edit: actually I'm not fine with all that. social distancing is a nicely euphemistic term for cutting all close personal contact and I absolutely won't agree to that. I was happy to do it for a long period, but not any longer.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089219#Comment_118089219

10% is an extremely conservative upper estimate, had you read the article or studies you would have seen the likely figure from most studies was 1-2%.

Standing in a queue is not much different to being in a building site puffing and panting on other people when doing joint-lifts.

As to your question, yes I probably would if it was outdoors and they werent coughing and spluttering.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118088700#Comment_118088700

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118088700#Comment_118088700

I was in London this week , nothing like the level of mask covering here or requests for covid vaccination certs etc , we really are an outlier

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089496#Comment_118089496

I'm not being smart but I wouldn't be looking towards the UK for guidance on anything to do with the pandemic Max. Their numbers are worse than ours and their health people are making noises about needing a Christmas lockdown. I would prefer to look towards the continent to pick out the countries that are keeping control of their numbers and see what they are doing differently

seamus

@eagle eye wrote:

Now we've got a virus that won't say no and we've got to do everything we can to eliminate it.

Once you catch up with the rest of the planet and accept that covid cannot be eliminated, then what? What's your plan?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089496#Comment_118089496

They are very much the outlier in this, not us.

Of more interest will be what happens in Denmark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089280#Comment_118089280

And yet some people understand that unless we place wholly unreasonable restrictions on people, some death and injuries are inevitable and are part of the cost/benefits of having automobiles.

This is the point of this thread. What is the acceptable level of risk with covid?

People who have a fetish for controlling others say that only zero deaths are acceptable. Others are more reasonable.

You'll probably struggle with this too. But I forgive you.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089432#Comment_118089432

Podge, I wouldn't advocate cutting contact to zero. I do however find it a little annoying that some people won't even make a simple effort to get the easy wins. Wearing a mask on a bus or train while we are still in a pandemic shouldn't be controversial. I think that if everyone did the easy things then we could actually open up some other things, or at least keep them open, more easily.

Suppose we agree that it is acceptable for a person to spend one hour in close contact with others on a night out. Do you want to waste 20 minutes out of that hour packed up against randomers in a queue or would you prefer to keep the full hour for dancing and having the craic inside? Lets all be reasonable and prioritize.

Determining what is an acceptable level of deaths, and developing health structures based on that analysis, is the very definition of what ‘public health’ is all about. Very different to looking at health from an individual perspective

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089555#Comment_118089555

Well I think putting a time limit on a night out is fairly pointless in the first place. And I think the queue is the safer location.

Conceptually I largely agree though. We should be sensible and do as many "easy" measures as possible. But this brings us back full circle to the OP - because even with your reasonable measures we are going to have deaths. And there will be available measures that would lower them but it has been decided not to take them. I agree with the decision but it is in essence an acceptance of a certain level of risk of death from Covid.

Banal platitudes like "no death is acceptable" aren't really all that helpful or productive.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089513#Comment_118089513

mainland EU countries dont nor did not have the level of restrictions we had until very recently either

we were neurotic in our reaction for so long

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089583#Comment_118089583

anyone who makes statements like " no deaths are acceptable " should sell most of their possessions and give the money to a starving village in Africa as we tolerate death from hunger every minute

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118084226#Comment_118084226

Same can be said of alcohol, prescription medications, sugar, highly processed foods, night shift work

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089587#Comment_118089587

No, but they appear to have much better adherence to public health measures. I had a friend visit over the Summer who was very surprised to see that people here were mainly wearing cheap disposable masks because back home they had to wear masks that were up to a certain quality. And was also surprised to see people openly flouting rules without being pulled up on it. That was from someone coming from a country that has much lower levels than here and actually returned to regular clubbing months ago.

That compliance is precisely the reason why they don't need the same level of restrictions. They control it through simple, unobtrusive, controls. That is why I posted earlier (maybe on a different thread) that the people who won't do the simple things are people who in reality must want another lockdown. I don't want more lockdowns but I have to concede that it might be the only mechanism to use if so many people refuse to do the simple things.

skimpydoo

I am happy that society is open and all I am asking for is people to have a little consideration for people in my situation. Practice safe distancing, wear masks and wash your hands. Am I asking for too much?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089715#Comment_118089715

I'm perfectly fine with this, is anyone on this thread against these basic measures?

I'm just against further lockdowns.

SupplyandDemandZone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089417#Comment_118089417

Nice grandstanding. Cheerio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089715#Comment_118089715

Hand washing, absolutely yes,

mask wearying, in certain indoor places, absolutely yes

social distancing, no. Social distancing is just impractical, if not impossible, in most everyday life. Even in SuperValu it’s not possible, let alone a pub or a bus. We need to let the social distancing concept go and focus on the things that we CAN do

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089245#Comment_118089245

A public footbath is of no consequence to a business that is closed. There is zero legal obligation to look after members of the public, on a public footpath, when your business is not open.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118089724#Comment_118089724

I think masks should be done away with. They shouldn't have been brought in at all.