Why do people feel they are entitled to the money of others?

landofthetree

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096932#Comment_118096932

So what?

Nobody is force to do work for Jeff or buy his products.

Meanwhile the Gov will beat me up,throw me in prison if I dont pay my taxes.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118108650#Comment_118108650

jeffs actually a rent seeker, most of his wealth comes from 'unearned income', a monopolist, crushing businesses and services out of existence, theres nothing admiral about that.

funnily enough, the choice of some is either amazon or the dole, or.....

i found some products only on amazon.....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118108689#Comment_118108689

How is it unearned income if the income is generated by sellers/buyers using Amazon? They are paying to use a service.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118108650#Comment_118108650

What the fuck has this reply go to do with what I posted?

Of course nobody is forced to use Amazon, I never said that they were.

And yes, Bezos should pay his share of taxes, like everyone else. I never said that he shouldn't.

landofthetree

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118111538#Comment_118111538

You said he does nothing to earn his money.

He does. He offers goods and services in exchange for money.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118107943#Comment_118107943

Ah bullshyte.

The local bookshop in your town or city has to pay higher rates of tax than old Bezo's Amazon simply becuase they don't have some IP registered in Bermuda or their notional HQ is not based in Luxembourg, Ireland, Jersey.

One would swear that the only ones that create indirect jobs are the lieks of the Amazon's, Facebooks, etc.

One would also swear that the only option is fook all tax or 90%.

How about they pay standard taxes on their incomes in the states where they earned it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118106733#Comment_118106733

Just because something isn't illegal doesn't make it fair and just.

The fact that people like Bezos, Buffett, Musk, Gates, Zuckerberg, Trump can end up paying less in tax than the lowest of their employees stinks to high heaven.

Even then if they do pay tax it is on earnings from investments that is taxed at lower captial gains tax rather than normal income tax.

They also engage in asset based lending where when they need cash they borrow against their portfolio and it looks like they are bleedin in debt and don't have to pay any tax.

Bezo needs money to buy a new 50 million dollar yacht so instead of selling some shares in Amazon which would mean 20% capital gains tax, he organises a loan for 50 million against some of his Amazon shares which means he still gets 50 mill for his own use.

He ends up with his yacht, but here is the next rub.

He registers it to a Trust in some dodgy place like Samoa through that nice Aussie Graeme Briggs, accountant for the rich and world's scumbag rulers. So he never really owns the yacht so it can't ever be touched, but he is the guy in charge of the trust and who owns the trust.

Oh and then he transfer all his wealth into a dynasty trust which means there is no tax to be paid when he pops his clogs.

These are all schemes to AVOID paying tax, taxes that normal people even Irish lotto winners could not avoid paying.

Sooner or later countries and people are going to get sick of it and the people like you that would excuse it.

landofthetree

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118108689#Comment_118108689

Two young people go for a job.

Dave who hasn't worked for the last year since leaving school.

John has worked at Amazon for the last year.

Wasn't John wise to take up the Amazon job. Now when he looks for a better job he has 1 year's work experience on his CV.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118111693#Comment_118111693

He owns a company where staff do that. Bezo's "work" involves a few hour a year meeting investors.

"Earns" implies that he's out grafting putting items in boxes all on his own. 😆

The poor lad.

Either way, I never mentioned that people were forced to buy stuff on Amazon, nor that he shouldn't pay his taxes. You were seeing things that weren't even there. 😉

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118111703#Comment_118111703

If what they are doing is legal, why are you blaming them? It’s like criticising an employee here for using medical expenses or pension contribution to claim tax relief. Lots of small businesses here use tax efficient methods to make purchases, is that fair and just?

landofthetree

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118111747#Comment_118111747

Who created the company?

Nobody is forced to buy from Amazon.

landofthetree

Bill Gates is richer than many countries.

But it has to be remembered that Bill Gates has created much more than many countries.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112256#Comment_118112256

Fucking hell, I never said that they were.

Go away. 🙄

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118111827#Comment_118111827

Did you even bother reading what I posted.

They are distorting the whole system, they are avoiding paying almost any tax not just writing off actual living expenses or pension contributions.

The real laugh is, it is people like you and me that end up paying a bigger chunk of money into the grand pot than they do.

If you reckon that is fair then you have one warped sense of equality.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112266#Comment_118112266

And here we go again with this trope that these companies are all down to them.

One would swear that old Bill wrote every program, tested every program (actually srub that as Microsoft set the trend where the consumer tests their products).

Gates had an idea way back in the early 80s, was lucky that IBM adopted it, partially thanks to the luck that another guy with an idea had decided to go flying rather than meet the dudes from IBM.

Gates and Microsoft often took other people's ideas and built on them, often building substandard products as well.

But they were the best at market manipulation.

Check out the courts if you want evidence of that BTW.

If you want someone that had grand ideas and heavily influenced modern technology and indeed society then look no further than Steve Jobs.

Granted he was a dick as well, but his influence is far greater than Gates ever.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112554#Comment_118112554

A person or business using whatever tax regulations exist to legally lower their tax burden is the normal way for tax payers to operate. The term “tax avoidance” has a sinister ring to it, what it means is that you use the relevant tax code in that jurisdiction to avoid paying anymore tax than you are legally required to. Every person/business who uses an accountant or claims reliefs is practicing tax avoidance.

Why are you complaining about a company/individual using the system of taxation to reduce their tax? Instead, you should be looking at the people who make the laws that allow this to happen. And don’t forget, if you close off the ability of a billionaire to borrow in order to finance purchases so that tax burden is reduced, you have to apply that to small business owners as well. So save your ire, there is nothing wrong with Jeff Bezos or anyone else avoiding paying more tax than they have to, they are doing the same as every other business.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118108910#Comment_118108910

most of wealthy folks 'earnings' come from the value of their assets, they tend to use and abuse their monopoly powers, and positions, to gain control, and purchase more and more assets, and also use their powers to make sure their interests, particularly the value of their assets, stay on an upwardly direction. this approach simply crushes others out of markets, and the bulk of the pressure ends up on the backs of the general workforce, including amazon workers, this is very evident in property markets... again, nothing admiral....

the whole process above is known as 'rent seeking', its highly extractive, in regards wealth, and actually doesnt serve humans at all, even for the wealthy, as it leads to rapidly growing wealth inequality, which in turn leads to rising instabilities of all human needs, including the wealthy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118111718#Comment_118111718

nice story, but thats all it is really, you ll actually find many folks would remain stuck in these type of jobs, of course there are exceptions from time to time, and as time progresses, you ll find workers health declines rapidly, particularly their mental health. its incredibly disturbing to see the amount of people championing these types of jobs, when the amount of stories about working conditions in such companies are plentiful, and disturbing....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112886#Comment_118112886

So what. If a company you start grows and makes you rich, does that mean you don’t “earn” the profits your company makes? Of course not.

It seems like some posters such as yourself think being successful and wealthy is a bad thing. Pretty much every employee in the private sector owes their job to the hard work and vision of the person who started or owns the business they work for.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112699#Comment_118112699

Ever think that these mega institutions and their primary owners can manipulate the system and influence policy makers by using their position and wealth?

There is a fooking difference and you well know it, in a small business owner borrowing against his company to finance company growth or acquisitions and a billionaire borrowing solely for personal reasons against his shareholding in a mega company, all to avoid paying any tax on income.

You come across as a lickspittle that would doff your cap to these people.

If you were in the states you would most definitely be a republican, tea partiest where anyone that dared make the billionaires pay more tax or even their fair share as a socialist.

Do you expect to be a billionaire yourself as you seem so willing to defend their walking on the rest of the taxpayers.

Bezos is a vile human being.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112992#Comment_118112992

not at all, again, companies such as amazon have been engaging heavily, over the last few years, in share buy backs, this money was ultimately given to them by creditors, in some cases at zero or negative rates, to invest in 'productive means', but instead, theyve used it to purchase their own shares back, this ultimately only benefits major share holders, which commonly within such companies, are the higher earners, as a significant amount of their income is in 'stock options', in some cases its the major part of their income. i.e. society at large hasnt actually truly gained from these activities, as it produces little or no jobs, goods or services, and theres little or no taxes paid on such wealth gained, and people regularly say, 'the games rigged'.......

again, not at all, society needs innovators such as bezos and musk, but society also needs a piece of the game, a piece of the winnings, the earnings, the wealth created, if we continue on this trajectory, its very likely we ll keep moving back towards seious global conflicts, world wars etc

oh you ll also find, the bulk of taxation falls on the rest, from individuals to sme's etc, and its always important to remember, most are employed by sme's, i.e. you re the default in all of this, in regards taxation.......

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112992#Comment_118112992

Why do you conflate normal entrepreneurs and business people with mega millionaires and billionaires ?

You do know there is a difference?

And has anyone ever said companies are not meant to make profits ?

Has anyone ever said business owners have to pay most of their income in tax and they are not allowed get rich?

You are the only one saying this.

The rest of us are saying that someone earning millions a year, hell millions a day, should not get away with paying a few thousand in tax, an amount not dissimilar to average workers in their organisations.

You keep dragging this back to idea that if Gates, Buffett, Musk, etc is made pay their fair share of tax, if Amazon or Facebook are made pay taxes on their massive revenues, then the local small business owner will be made pay more or the local small company will pay more.

The laugh is they are already paying because they can't avail of the tax avoidance schemes, they can't register the IP for their bookshop, their line of product in Bermuda or somewhere that allows them wash their revenues through.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113121#Comment_118113121

You come across as someone who doesn’t understand how taxation works and what tax avoidance actually means.

Don’t be a naive, there are plenty of lobby groups in Ireland like Unions, Farmers, IBEC, Vintners etc who try and manipulate the system for their members benefit, you may benefit from that yourself. That is not confined to “mega institutions”. Our own government kept corporate tax low to manipulate the system and attract MNCs to the small island on the edge of Europe that is Ireland.

I lived and worked in the States, one of the things I like most about it was their “can do” attitude, and their “I wanna be that guy” view of successful people. Here, we get idiots who are clueless about taxation and begrudge success. Go figure.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113230#Comment_118113230

...by any chance have you noticed how american society is actually starting to collapse, largely due to rising wealth inequality?

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113230#Comment_118113230

Ah, so you love the American system. Makes sense so. Billionaires are better than us, trickle down economics works, if you apply yourself you'll earn more, if you're poor it's your fault. A great system.

BattleCorp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118111747#Comment_118111747

You don't get to be as rich as Bezos without having a tremendous work ethic. You can be sure he does an awful lot more 'work' than spending a few hours a year meeting investors. I'd be surprised if someone like Bezos doesn't work 12+ hours most days.

BattleCorp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113121#Comment_118113121

Why the hate for Bezos? Begrudgery?

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113834#Comment_118113834

Bezos could sit on his arse for the rest of his life and still get richer than you or I could even imagine. 😆

In fact, he's probably put more work in his dick measuring contest with Branson over the last few years than he has in Amazon. I suppose he won that, considering that he went to space in a giant penis.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113230#Comment_118113230

Ah the penny drops.

A republican voter alright.

You love the American system and believe in the American Dream.

Yeah the one where upper middle class guys like Gates, Zuckerberg can become billionaires but most kids leave college owes hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.

The one where half the people can't afford or avail of decent healthcare.

Ah yes only you understand about taxes, only someone like you understands the value of the Gates, the Bezos, the Musks and how we must bow to them and suck up to them and how dare we think that they should pay taxes on their wealth. 🙄

Talk about sucking up to your betters.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113834#Comment_118113834

And you don't get as rich as Bezo if you have to pay your fair share of tax.

And looking after your staff might also decrease that wealth.

Bezo is another Mike Ashley who thinks their staff should be treated like Serfs.

Ah but sure aren't being good enough to give them a job.

Fooks sake they exhibit a similar attitude to slave owners who thought they were doing slaves a favour by putting a roof over their head.

Why not laud the likes of the Cadburys who went out of their way to actually improve the lot of their workers not treat them like sh**.

At least Gates and Zuckerberg are founders, major owners and CEOs (well ex in Gates' case) of organisations that look after their staff fairly well.

thegetawaycar

While they have huge fortunes a lot of the "wealth" Bezos and Musk have is linked to the share price of their companies.

Dividends should be taxed like normal income and then at least they would be paying tax based on the money they have access too.

Realistically, Musk can make his wealth plummet with a stupid tweet, (see the stock price after some of his brain fart tweets before) and if you were to tax wealth based on stock owned well then what would happen if the company went tits up? They get money back/tax break?

It's like the comments on millionaires in Ireland, there are loads due to the fact their house has multiplied in value but realistically for some, if you were to tax it they'd be forced to move out of their home and sell if they were to be taxed on wealth. Obviously there are exceptions and some with **** loads of money but the whole wealth talk is just fictional money especially in stocks when it's so volatile

CalisGirl

Legitimately using existing laws to avoid unnecessary taxes is smart not immoral. Folks aren't going to pay extra taxes because it's the "right" thing to do, but rather because they're legally obliged to. However, wealth taxes on the billionaire class are needed because the existing wealth distribution system is not working, especially in US. For 10% of people to hold 70% of wealth and of that 1% to hold 32% of wealth in the US (see statista 2021), something is seriously wrong. I wouldn't see that as taking the money of others, but rather making the system work more fairly for all.

If massive wealth inequalities are allowed to persist in society, it can lead to civil unrest and other negative effects which is why it's something that needs to be addressed. My personal opinion is that the income inequalities in US is one of the reasons Trump was elected. People can see existing system isn't working and it was a desperate attempt to change.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118113655#Comment_118113655

Where did I say that?