Thoughts on this letting.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096625#Comment_118096625

If the HAP inspection found things not in compliance, and the landlord didnt sort them, the council can fine him afaik. If he cant afford to get the work done then he probably has to sell or ask tenants to leave as it's probably illegal to rent as it is.

What happens then, can tenants stay in a non-compliant/unsafe property or does the landlord get a certain amount of time to do the repairs?

What were the works to the garden that weren't done? Is it a front or back garden or both? If it was general maintenance and tidy-up and the lease says it's the landlord responsibility then he should have organised regular maintenance. The RTB website says a tenant can organise repairs / maintenance that are the landlords responsibility and get a refund of the cost from the landlord. Presume tenant would agree to deduct it from the rent and send a receipt.

Otoh, if LL said something vague at the start about hoping to do landscaping works at some stage and didn't do it, that might be different as it may have been a 'nice to have' but not a specific term of the contract.

As regards the notice to quit, it must be on the official form plus a statutory declaration when selling or its not valid. RTB now need a copy also. The LL sounds like he doesnt understand his legal obligations if he gave 160 days notice then tried to change it.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096718#Comment_118096718

Just reading back over this.

Seriously, why would anyone put themselves through all the stress and grief of going through the courts? Any court case is enough to really damage a persons mental health and causes huge levels of anxiety. What happens if the tenant loses the case and ends up with a big legal bill? Newspaper reports, case appearing on google from any name search, RTB case reports, etc etc, all because the grass wasn't cut? It's a bit extreme imo.. would the mediation service be an option to come to an agreement that suits both of them?

purpleshoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097844#Comment_118097844

Unlikely that they have even thought that far ahead. It has become all too common in Ireland to default to being the victim.

Even if the tenant has a justifiable grievance (Right now I suspect they don't) the manner in which they have now escalated it is over the top. The cherry on top is threatening the LL that they will report them for harassment.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096718#Comment_118096718

The very reason many landlords are selling up and very few new ones are entering.

Thats exactly why we have a rental crisis in this country.

PalLimerick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096767#Comment_118096767

She didn't wait 4.5 years. She is chasing the landlord since she moved in the landlord failed in his duties for 4.5 Years. In all my Years of dealing with Threshold on behalf of Tenants I have never been advised to foward information as in to advise the Tenant to stop paying rent.

PalLimerick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118096983#Comment_118096983

How will he afford the legal route then, the landlord is a big company owner.

PalLimerick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097033#Comment_118097033

No the outside is not a case of the grass not been cut. It's that bad there is no grass, only mud, wild weeds, rubble left over from a previous job. Old appliances left from I assume previous tenants. Uneven dangerous concrete slabs.

PalLimerick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097062#Comment_118097062

A real big job. Total outside front and back needs to be done. Definitely not a case of cutting the grass. If I say too much on here I might identify the landlord or tenant. That I don't want to do.

PalLimerick

Thanks for all the comments, good, bad and indifferent. I have not posted the real date of the rtb case for privacy. But when it goes ahead I will report back here with the outcome. Thanks to all.

PalLimerick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118101644#Comment_118101644

Why, because people exercise their legal rights?

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118121358#Comment_118121358

No, because of the one sided rights and the effort and cost involved for landlords to exercise their own rights.

PalLimerick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118121463#Comment_118121463

If the girl in question goes through the legal route, she will have the same costs as the landlord. So it's not free for the tenant either.

PalLimerick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118097987#Comment_118097987

Do you see any issue with a landlord issuing a notice with 160 or 180 days (I'm not sure which amount of days, but it is one of those numbers) to vacate the house. Then 50 odd Days in to the notice texting the tenant saying they've had enough time he wants them out. That is harassment, hence the threat to get the Gardai involved.

On what basis do you suspect the tenant hasn't a justifiable grievance?

sportsfan90

OP was the property/garden failing to meet HAP requirements at the time the lease was started? Honestly I’d be amazed if this was allowed.

But if so, I don’t understand why HAP allowed the tenancy to begin in a property not meeting their standards?

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118121622#Comment_118121622

Simpler example.

Say you had a business where you made €100 per day and did 8 hours amount of work for that every day.

That business is going fine for a few years. You do your 8 hours and you get €100 every day.

So imagine one day the law changed that you cant increase your prices by more than €2, but suddenly you had people not paying for the goods you made and your costs went up.

You would try and get over the hump for a while, but you are on a loser.

Then add into it that you now have to put in loads of effort and cost to chase people who wont pay, but still you can only increase your prices by €2.

Then add into the mix that you have had enough and want to sell your business. but one of your customers decides they want you to keep your business open for them because they can get what you produce cheaper than the shop next door.

So now you have to go to court and jump through hoops for years to just sell your business. Its no longer the 8 hours for €100 simple business model anymore. you want out.

Can you see how the hassle and the potential minefield of RTB, courts, sheriffs etc, might make your once attractive business unattractive.

Well thats whats happened to landlords. Its also happening to Doctors and nurses too, but thats beside the point.

C14N

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118121698#Comment_118121698

To the best of my knowledge, the council will virtually never assess a property for HAP before granting the money. It will usually take months after the tenancy has started for an inspection, and then they are given additional months to remedy the problems.

The One Doctor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118095602#Comment_118095602

Myself and my family are in receipt of HAP.

First rule of HAP - maintain VERY good relations with the LL.

HAP is very tenous - we are dependant on both the CC AND the LL for a home. When we moved in, the CC had a survey of the house done and a load of improvements were necessary to bring it up to spec, however the house has always been perfectly livable for us, so I ignored the list.

If internal maintenance needs to be done - I do it.

Whenever we needed anything comfort based - mattress, hoover, sofa - we bought it ourselves (having told the LL first of course).

Of course the LL has done things like replace the dishwasher and bring in plumbers, fix the roof flashing etc.

It's utterly critical to keep the LL sweet.

This tenant has rocked the boat and pissed the LL off.

The tenant will end up evicted.

Asking for money for an unused portion of the garden? That is taking the piss and throwing it on the fire.

purpleshoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118121348#Comment_118121348

Oh wow!! You are advising them! I thought you were only a concerned friend/family member etc.

I view you have been a real liability to the tenant here. Reading your post above gives the impression that you operate in this area in some sort of professional capacity. It is concerning that you posted this on boards.ie to solicit feedback. Despite what you think, it is clear you don't have the skillset to navigate these challenges.

It will be interesting to hear the outcome. If the tenant is evicted will you take any responsibility for that? Or will you just double down on your existing opinion of the LL?

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118121358#Comment_118121358

Agree the tenant should have got 180 days notice if they're in the house 4.5 years so the LL can't change the NoT to 60 days because he feels like it. Was the problem about the lack of garden work only raised because of the termination notice as it wasn't such a major problem up to now if tenants were still living there? Either way, LL should have got it sorted if it was in the council report.

Tbf, the tenant has a valid grievance about the 60 days, but the LL will probably want them gone after an RTB case and will make sure every notice is correct in future.

PalLimerick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118122845#Comment_118122845

Where did I say I work in this field as a professional? You appear to be taken my posts very personal. You've answered none of my questions I asked you. Granted you're not obliged to but its courtesy to do so.

PalLimerick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118123076#Comment_118123076

The notice to quit was only issued when the tenant put their foot down about the work. The case wasn't opened because of an eviction notice.

PalLimerick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118122345#Comment_118122345

I'm not a renter myself but no way would I walk on egg shells as to not piss off a landlord. They're landlords not God. And I most definitely wouldn't be carrying out the landlords obligations. But each to their own I suppose.

PalLimerick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118122276#Comment_118122276

That is correct.

MBE220d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118121348#Comment_118121348

What exactly is your role in all this, who do you represent if you're dealing with Threshold, Threshold is not going to talk to you about someones else business so it's definitely not in a provisional role or you wouldn't be on Boards.ie looking for advice.

But I suspect it's the usual local busybody know all out giving advice on how to screw some landlord for money or hope to get evicted so they are bumped up the housing list.

MBE220d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118122345#Comment_118122345

You sound like an ideal tenant, but don't be afraid to ask for a few basic requirements when needed, don't forget a landlord needs a good tenant also and will try a keep them as long as possible, so it works both ways.

Furze99

In terms of the real world, I think this tenant was foolish to let it get to this. If the back garden needed tidying up and they were otherwise happy with the property and rent, they should have rolled up their own sleeves, got a few friends into help if needed and tackled it. Life is tricky enough without getting into rows like this. A while since we rented but when we did, I cut the grass regularly and kept the place tidy. When a shed on the site was damaged in a storm, I let the landlord sort that out.

purpleshoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118123338#Comment_118123338

You do say

”In all my Years of dealing with Threshold on behalf of Tenants I have never been advised to foward information as in to advise the Tenant to stop paying rent.”

If you are saying you are not a professional, are you saying that Threshold ignore GDPR?

Also, are you saying that Threshold assume a LL to be guilty until they are proven innocent?

Bass Reeves

I am a small time landlord( two properties) and have read this whole thread. OP first off yes the tenant may well win there case at the RTB. However the compensation will not reflect the full tenancy I think. The reason being there is a duty to minimise the loss in any compensation case this would have entailed enforcement earlier than nearly 5 years into a tenancy.

Now if the RTB give a judgement you have to enforce that judgement. The LL can appeal it to a court which will delay any award by years.

Even if they win that award the LL could just refuse to pay and they have to collect.

In the meantime the LL has instigated eviction proceedings, yes they may be invalid now but he will get the paperwork right sooner or later.

If you friend at any stages stops paying the rent he can then use the non rent payment process to evict. It a case of heads you lose, tails he wins.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118123364#Comment_118123364

Nobody is asking a tenant to walk on eggshells. But a little bit of respect goes along way. You have not given the complete back story. Was the LL aware of it being s HAP tenancy at the he start?, Was he aware of the process and the council's involvement as well as regulations regarding housing standard. Is the rent at near the market rent for the area. I am not saying this is right but some LL's consider this an imposition on there rights rightly or wrongly.

As One Doctor says a little give and take goes a long way. Would it have been inconsiveable that your f iend might have got a friend with a trailer to move all the dumped appliances to a recycling center, it costs nothing. If you are paying for bins smaller item can go in the recycling bin. Could she have arranged for a few make relatives to move any rubble into a corner of the back yard. It amazing if a landlord sees a tenant making am effort to look after a place what it might urge him to do.

Your friend shod have remembered that rights are all very well but I'm the present market LL have the choice of tenants.20+ people viewing most relets and LL are less likely to allow HAP just because of that.

Rights are not guaranteed to keep a roof over your head.

mrslancaster

....

Thomas

The Tenant may be in the right here and the LL may well be neglecting their responsibilities.

Going formal though, her name is on the RTB disputes database for all to see. When she’s going for her next home, what prospective LL will take her on if they have 50 other applicants for a property as soon as they see her name there during vetting? Whether she’s in the right or not, I hope she’s not messing up her future.