Would you self-pay for an operation?

Gael23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118191398#Comment_118191398

Depends on the specific policy. I’m with Irish life too and I’m covered for 50% of the cost in the Mater Private but there are loads of other options. You’ll also notice that certain policies have a co payment for some orthopaedic procedures but you’d need to give them the specific details to be sure.

I see my health insurance as one of the essential bills I have every month

Thoie

Check to see if your consultant from the Mater has rooms anywhere else, for example in CUH. Many of them practice in multiple locations. If (s)he has a private practice in CUH, you could see them there, and you might find that your VHI covers you for being a private patient in a public hospital.

I can't remember the exact details now, but I had a fairly large surgery a few years back (not spinal), which was mostly covered by my health insurance. I was in hospital about a week, and I remember that the "amount due" (of which I only paid a fraction) was in the region of €30-40k - I was gobsmacked by the cost of it. There was a nightly rate for the bed, separate costs for the use of the operating theatre, costs for everyone who saw me (surgeon, anesthetist, random bloke passing down the hall), every drop of blood they took, and processed. It all added up rapidly.

I also needed to go back to outpatients regularly for a few weeks afterwards, and it turns out my health insurance didn't cover that, and that came to about €100 a pop each time as well.

Fionne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118192123#Comment_118192123

The guy I saw in the Mater doesn't work anywhere else unfortunately, that's why it was possible to get an appointment to see him and not the ones also working in other hospitals.

The Mater is €1,000 per day just for a bed so yeah, I'm terrified of what the whole operation might cost as it's a 5-6 day stay even if all goes well. If I was unlucky enough to have complications and have to stay longer or need further treatment...god knows. All quite depressing.

apache

My insurance only covers 70% I think of the Mater Private. It must be expensive.

Jessieb99

Hi I’m just wondering how you are getting on and if you have gotten to see anyone since ? I’m waiting on a call to cork myself to see a consultant as I have a spinal stenosis now also , hope your ok , Joanne

sharon.1969

Hi i dont have the same problem but i appreciate any feedback on my problem. I keep hitting a wall when being referred to a consultant for review on what I need going forward for my knee injury (operation or just physiotherapy) all the consultants so far need health insurance which unfortunately I don't have but I am willing to pay myself for the 1st step, to get a consultation on what I need. Can anyone point me in the right direction to a consultant who takes direct payment for same. Thanks

Fionne

I still haven't seen anyone. I asked my GP in October to refer me to someone my health insurance would cover me for. Finally, 4 months later, and after me having to ring, email and even go into the surgery, they tell me the letter was sent 2 weeks ago now. I was ready to go and stage a protest by that point because a letter takes a minute to do and they took months to get around to it. Until I hear from the consultant I won't even fully believe that they've sent it as they seem to be incompetent, almost every time they send my prescription to the chemist it is missing items or has items on it I didn't even ask for. I've no faith in them anymore.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118772256#Comment_118772256

Have you had an MRI scan done 🤔 I've quite the experience of a knee issue, I'm happy to share.

apache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781791#Comment_118781791

Could you change GP?

Although I don't know how easy that is. Looking in to it myself.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782069#Comment_118782069

Very difficult at the moment , few GP’S taking on new patients and if a medical card holder all the more difficult, involving a protracted administrative process.

Personally speaking, I would sell car and anything else to find surgery in the Mater Private, where a legendary spinal surgeon operates. Can’t recall his name, but I was in a rehab centre recovering from a knee replacement where I shared a room with a lady who had recently undergone surgery for a very complicated neck spine issue. She was jubilant in that she woke up free from the website intolerable type of nerve pain that had been affecting her. Now I know with lower spinal surgery you have to wait to find that improvement as the weight of your body is upon recovering inflamed tissues.

Aldo, be careful which surgeon you choose when it comes to spinal surgery. I worked with someone who had spinal fusion, and it turned out a disaster as the wrong size screws were used which pressed into his spinal cord, causing great pain and compromise. This was discovered when instead of improving in the rehab facility he got much worse, and it was discovered a screw was pressed on spinal cord, and in spite of emergency surgery he never properly recovered, and one leg was both agonising and wouldn’t reliably hold him up. Other aspects were affected, as can happen in lower spinal issues. The surgeon had been more practised in operating on children, it seemed. It was through the public system, where another surgeon had refused to touch him because of his complexity, and he sought a second opinion and that surgeon was willing to try and help him. It might have worked except that inappropriate screw size was used for him.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781791#Comment_118781791

Your GP practice sounds exactly like mine! I’ve been quite cross with them on occasion and have been told “NO need to get like that!” They would drive you insane at times, especially the admin staff and the two female doctors who seemed to come from a mould of what I can only describe as “fussy indifference”. They seem to hate being GPs, as another patient in the surgery said to me “a pair who went into medicine purely for social status, no people skills”. However the original senior partner is a really nice and helpful man when he is on duty, but he seems less and less so in recent years.

mct1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118781791#Comment_118781791

I've needed several (private) referrals in the past few years and I always ring the consultant's secretary to check they've received my GP's referral and enquire when my appointment might be, similarly for scans, Xrays. I'd do that if I were you - it would put your mind at rest anyway. I do trust my doctor but as a retired GP I know how referrals - which are almost always done electronically now - can sometimes get overlooked or buried. Practices have been up to their eyes with Covid, vaccines and backlogs and unfortunately this means that sometimes a patient just needs to stay on their case.

You can ring the hospital switchboard and ask for the consultant's secretary or find their number on the hospital website. I hope you get some relief soon.

apache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782151#Comment_118782151

What's the reason why it is so hard to change GP?

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782497#Comment_118782497

Numerous

Firstly the lack of GP's

Secondly, most practices full

Thirdly, all extremely busy.

In relation to Medical Card Holders.

Generally Medical card holder are assigned a GP or GP has assisted in applying for the MC.

To Change existing GP whilst a MC holder , the process involves applying for a move through the HSE and there is no guarantees there's another GP either willing to take on a new MC patient or indeed there's even one available on the panel within a geographical location of the patient. Whilst the MC can in certain circumstances be used in out of hour services , Hospital visits etc, they are generally assigned for usage by a nominated GP, indeed MC have the name of the GP assigned on them.

This is the simplified version but if your a MC Holder (I am) it is not straightforward moving to a new GP , thankfully my own, generally excellent.

apache

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782573#Comment_118782573

I see. I think it's hard enough to change GPs also if you're paying. They are all overstretched.

_Kaiser_

Got a cataract removed up North at the start of last year under the Cross Border scheme (got in just before the effects of Brexit took that option out) having been told it could be 6 years on the waiting list (no insurance) and having already waited 3 of those.

Cost me about €500 net by the time I was done. Very efficient and helpful team that run that section. Had the money back in about a month after the operation.

Mynydd2

I've self-payed for an operation for my daughter. Not sure how feasible for you, but some corporate policies waive the waiting time. Mine at least does, not sure if it's company-related (multinationals tend to have this) or not. Maybe enquire about corporate policies, they are available to the general public.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118787662#Comment_118787662

It really is and the old saying , Private is faster is really no longer the case in certain disciplines. I think the shortage of GP's and indeed specialist consultants, coupled with increased workload is having a real impact on both private and public patients.

Jessieb99

Hi just to let ye know Pr o Sullivan is not retired thank god as he’s operating on my tomorrow morning, please get this person to get her GP to send her referral to him as she is in a bad state with pain,

sharon.1969

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782028#Comment_118782028

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782028#Comment_118782028

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782028#Comment_118782028

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118782028#Comment_118782028

sharon.1969

I have had the MRI done which i paid for myself in Clane hospital. Now i just need to see a consultant tha takes paying customer for his opinion on what needs to be done. I dont mind paying for the consultant but then going on the waiting list to get the procudure done if that make sence

Dempo1

So a curious update. Having had an MRI done in a public hospital, June 2021, results were a mixed bag , register 99% sure osteoarthritis evident , there was issues reading and accessing scans due to cyber attack . Some weeks later letter received by my GP saying wear and tear evident but nothing conclusive.

Pain in left knee and side excruciating for a number of years, gradually worsening before MRI . Prior to MRI it was thought I might have torn ligaments, went for physio but it actually made situation worse. So my GP early in 2022, decided after a number of failed attempts for an update from hospital to seek in writing a face to face appointment, this happened today.

So first I was greeted by a request for for another X-ray on the knee before seeing registrar. I knew full well what this would show, wear and tear under knee cap. The examination followed but much more thouragh , Doctor clearly saw I was in pain, did a few nerve and movement tests etc . Immediately suspected there is something further up, possibly pelvis or back actually causing the chronic pain in my knee which included pins and kneedles and stiffness in entire leg when I lay down, pain has also spread to hip but not as bad as Leg. Second X-ray done on pelvis area , some wear a tear but doctor now convinced there's an underlying back issue all along which has been the cause of chronic pain in my left leg for a few years now. To be fear my pain was always in my knee and leg , it never dawned on me it could be a back problem.

Now he's requested a full MRI on my back which will take a few weeks to get done. I'm still baffled as to why my knee and leg in constant pain and just a slight pain in hip and lower back area. Doctors believe it's primarily because the knees support a lot of body weight.

So still none the wiser but hopefully a full back MRI might give an answer finally and almost for years into this Journey now.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118819195#Comment_118819195

Has your GP seen MRI results or a specialist to determine what has been found 🤔 based on those results you will still need a referral , I believe from your GP , wether it be to private or public consultant. If you actually have the results, images , I would think public or private would take the same amount of time albeit a private operation, if required may be faster if private but very expensive.

sharon.1969

Yes my Doctor has sent a referral after the images of scan did show a tear in the knee but unfortunately when I ring to see has the Department in Tullamore received the referral they tell me not yet so I seem to be going around in circles.. referral sent a few times to Department but each time they say not up on system yet and that there is a backlog... so could be 1.5 years before I even get a consultation publicly... and that's even without anything being done. Seemly you can't pay to see a consultant private and then go public for the operation... its one way or the other. This is why I asked if anyone has been able to do what I am trying to achieve to pay private for consultation and wait to go public for operation?

On the public vs private argument, I had horrendous waits as a private patient to see an ENT. I have issues with an ear that crops up once in a while (due to surgery I had a long time ago). I needed access to someone who could do a slightly complicated micro suction and cleaning job. Audiologists wouldn’t touch it as it’s too complicated. Took 4 months to get an outpatients appointment and I’ve on of the highest VHI plans.

I was considering going to the continent and presenting in A&E as it was ridiculously painful.

The Irish healthcare system just doesn’t work. It’s literally dangerous at this stage.

phormium

I would also understand that you cannot privately go to consultant and then based on their findings go on to public list for the treatment, it's one or the other. There used to be some way of doing this but it results obviously in people 'jumping' the public queue so think that loophole was sealed off few years back. This used to be a subject of discussion a lot online in various places.

As for the knee pain coming from somewhere else this is I would have thought fairly common too, referred pain especially from hip. I know when my father had a problem with what he thought was his knee doc discovered it was a hip problem he had, he needed a hip replacement, he never so much as had a twinge in the hip!

That said I can see how you would be driven to pay for an op rather than wait when in pain but I'm not even sure if hospitals would allow that option unless you have a fairly hefty bank balance as the risk is complications. What should have been a routine hip op for my father with a 5 day stay turned into a month in hospital with 2 further surgeries and a bill of over 40k many yrs ago, now he had health insurance but that was the cost back then to VHI

It's hugely depressing to be living with constant pain and the delays in the health service, unfortunately I don't know what the answer is, the cataract set up the Healy Raes have going on is great but don't know if that translates in any way into the type of treatment you need.

PS found an old discussion on it on AAM https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/can-i-see-a-consultant-privately-and-then-go-public-for-the-procedure.192547/

PoisonIvyBelle

Hey OP. I've mostly self paid for my consultant appointments and procedures so I can hopefully help a bit. I think this will be easier to arrange than you think.

My dr is good but what I did was went in with a list of surgeons I'd found from my own research and then he offered suggestions too and we chose one out of that which he referred me to. He can't not refer you but if he does then just go to another doctor. I then called them to see what the average waiting time was for an appointment. You could even do this in advance before getting the referral sent. My most recent referral was a few months ago and my appointment is next week after about a 3 month wait (orthopedic surgeon). I've never been waiting longer than that for private.

PoisonIvyBelle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118860491#Comment_118860491

I've been able to do the private/public switch for things like getting a consult and then being switched over to the consultant's public service. I think it depends on the consultant. But the problem is you still end up with public waiting queues.

Fionne

I have an update - I have an appointment (finally!) tomorrow to see a consultant neurosurgeon at the private clinic in CUH.

Having asked in October for my GP to refer me to someone, it took until July for it to be done properly (he had referred me in February but as a public patient, NOT what I asked for).

I'm petrified. No matter what I'm told, it's gonna be hard. If he says he can't/won't do anything surgical to help, then I'm doomed to this state of constant pain I've been in for 14months now.

If he says I need surgery.....well that's just terrifying.

Anxiety is through the roof just thinking about it.