Argument last night

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118119392#Comment_118119392

Ha. Well, Maradonna learned how to play football by kicking a tennis ball around. QED.

Joking aside, yeah they are imperfect, but they are a compromise (tho I wasn't joking about it improving me 'real' pool game, such as it is).

joeguevara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118119285#Comment_118119285

To be fair the biggest issue in this whole situation is that when the baby poop hits the proverbial he wouldn’t have paid for the nappies and would have paid for the pool table.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118119679#Comment_118119679

Yeah, fair point.... But I remember when them 6ft snooker tables (probably similar to the sort of table you have) were popular - neighbours had one, but it's not the same as playing on a proper solid pub pool table, as those lightweight pool/snooker tables don't have any slate on them.. Never played (don't think anyway) on a 5ft, but if they're anything resembling the 4ft little table we used to have, with balls little bigger than marbles; then it's practically zero fun or entertainment.... Balls so small, it's almost impossible to get any action on the cueball, and don't get me started on the black rubber cushions that aren't even covered by felt 😅

Glad it works for you though... Playing under 'tougher conditions' is always an asset, when you eventually get to a 'level playing field' haha 😊

Idle Passerby

Keeping tabs on whose paid for what when your married with kids seems like needless hassle but each to their own.

Taking the separate finances into account, If you can't afford to help your wife save for your new baby, you can't afford toys for yourself. If she has enough left over after putting some aside for the new arrival why shouldn't she get a new phone? She can afford it and it has no impact on you or anyone else so what's the issue?

She's also buying things with her money you can both enjoy together, I would have thought that's a nice, thoughtful thing to do.

You want to spend money you apparently don't have on something that takes you away from helping her when she's got a newborn and a toddler to look after. Your effectively turning a room in your house into a place you can hide from her and the kids. I dont blame her for putting her foot down.

Who makes this ***** up?

It's like something that you would read in The Sun newspaper while sitting on the bog!

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Oscar Madison warned for Breach of forum charter.

Big Bag of Chips

@Oscar Madison you've been given a warning, and your subsequent post was deleted. Please do not troll the Personal Issues Forum. Due to the sensitive nature of posts here the forum is heavily moderated.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118120636#Comment_118120636

Absolutely not trolling!

I put up an opinion and I get this s***e!!

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Oscar Madison warned for Breach of Charter and off topic posting. Please do not question a moderator's action on thread. PM if you have an issue.

Think most of the replies are way too harsh on the OP tbh.

Leaving aside the specifics of the argument, when one partner controls the finances rigidly that can easily spin into an abusive relationship. The OP has said several times that he doesn't feel listened to when he wants to make purchases, whereas the wealthier partner gets to buy what they like. That can easily be a corrosive dynamic.

we don't really know enough about the size of the house to dismiss how feasible losing one room to a pool table would be, or why with similar wages the OP can't save more but fundamentally the OP needs to communicate to his wife that he doesn't feel listened to.

With a second kid on the way, the lack of communication is only going to get worse with lack of sleep and overall tiredness so you need to be careful how you address this issue but you do need to address it.

fatbhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118117762#Comment_118117762

100% agree with this. Mods, whatsuppppp

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Edit Warning given for breach of forum charter - no advice offered to the OP and discussing moderation on thread.

HS

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058216255/argument-last-night

Hi OP,

I have virtually the same arrangement as you,

My better half earns 20% more than me, while I work longer hours, have a more stressful job with deadlines and projects I often work in the evening after kids go to bed, and I have to commute between 1 and 2 hours a day depending on seasonal traffic, where my partner has a 10 minute stroll to work as we chose to locate ourselves close to family instead of close to or halfway to my work, and I also do on call regularly after hours so evenings and weekends are impacted and leave me very little in the way of me time.

I mind, or parent as someone else called it! :), our small children in the morning before I leave for work, I get up early, lift them out of their cots, make the porridge, get them changed and dressed and fed and keep them entertained until my better half has had a shower and breakfast and is ready to drop them to creche (5-10 minutes each way in the morning).

I collect them after work every evening unless I get caught to work late I take care of them until the dinner is served (usually we prepare dinners at the weekend and microwave them during the week), and then we both put them all to bed, taking turns to stay up with the eldest to read books and do a tuck in a bit later than the others.

Then I tidy up the living area while my partner will watch tv or do exercises and then go to bed early (as I do the late night bottle feeds before I go to bed, I don’t get up with them if they wake during the night, one of them would usually wake in the early hours and need to be shushed and cuddled for a minute to get them back to sleep, but it’s getting less frequent lately) so I go to bed later and get up earlier than my partner so my partner gets to sleep in a bit (with a mid-night disruption usually) but to be fair does need the extra sleep after a year or so of sleep deprivation.

We split the mortgage, bills, childcare, miscellaneous household purchases, 50/50 down the middle for everything to do with the upkeep of the house and the children.

I pay the family health insurance myself (work benefit), and we both pay a shared life assurance policy.

So, I’m sorry for all the preamble but just to give a flavour of life after small children and when more babies come along.

I would not normally have any free time for myself except if I arrange a relative to help my partner mind the children for me for an hour or so on a weekend.

I wouldn’t have any free time to play pool even if I had a pool table in the house (we have a tiny semi-D so never a runner!) and the noise at night would definitely wake either the kids or my partner as noise travels through the downstairs ceiling.

In terms of spending money; after child care and a car loan (on a second hand car) plus driving expenses (tax, insurance, tyres, fuel, NCT, annual maintenance service), mortgage, bills and the almost regular house purchases and repairs of things such as shower breaking down, boiler maintenance or repair, chairs and car seats for the children, I’ve also had some costly medical issues lately, etc there is always something extra that must be budgeted for or springs up at the end of each month so I haven’t had disposable income in about 3 years.

I can’t afford to spend on clothes, or dinners out, I gave up drinking (staying in and going out) when the kids arrived, I don’t smoke or have gambling issues etc.

I’m literally going month to month and clearing my full wages with barely enough to spare to pay for my lunches in work, sometimes I have to bring in my lunch as my bank balance would be spent and my credit card would be already feeling the pinch.

Please don’t read this as a sob story, as I am a very lucky man, I am a dedicated husband and parent to wonderful healthy children, I have nothing but pride and appreciation for what we have, my parents, brothers/sisters, and their kids and my in laws are all in great health thankfully, so life at the end of the day is a joy and a privilege each day, I’m not complaining, just being real about the commitments and expense that comes with family life.

The last thing I’ll cover is spending money on yourself,

My partner has disposable income, I do not at the moment, and will not until the kids are all out of childcare in a few years.

If I needed something my partner would offer to pay for it and I’d pay it back gradually (add it to the mountain!). I have always owed money to my partner for the past few years, and it will eventually be paid off in another few years if things go my way, but I will never take and spend my partner’s money and write it off. I just can’t do that, it wouldn’t sit right with me.

The way I see it, had I had worked harder in school and college and done a better course and a better grade I would have a better job now with more spending money, so I see that as my own life choices that I have to accept the consequences of now, I can’t afford to go back and retrain at this point so I am where I am for the long haul and have made peace with that.

My advice to you is this; have a conversation with your partner and be completely transparent with your finances, explain that you would like to use some of your own disposable income to pay for something that you feel you will get the use out of and enjoy, and work out with your partner if the pool table taking up the room is the real issue, or if it is a fear that you might not help as much, or that you might have friends over drinking and smoking in the front room all the time, or some other reservation she might have.

I know in my case I gave my partner as much leeway as possible when she was pregnant, there was nothing I’d question as she was so stressed and worn out that I would let her decide whatever she wanted and go along with it and maybe in subsequent years when things settle down to normality would I circle back to something I might want that she didn’t want at the time.

If it’s something I want for myself and we can pay all of the normal commitments together and I’m paying her back the agreed amount so she’s not under any pressure, I will pay for the thing myself, but if I were trying to take over a room to myself I wouldn’t have the spare space in my house or shed anyway, non runner, but even if we had a spare room, I don’t think I would be right to say I’d take the room for myself until we had the money to renovate the room unless she was in full agreement. It wouldn’t be worth the agro.

I hope my little rant helps you some bit, perhaps not!! :)

Best of luck and keep talking to your partner, openness and transparency with some appreciation for their point of view is always the best approach in my view.

galwaygirl76

This might go against the grain but... I'm also a woman. My partner and I kinda manage our own money separately, we're not paranoid, it's just the way we are. We pool (pardon the pun) together for necessities like mortgage, bills etc.

I personally would be fine with you buying the table, as you said you're home all of the time, rarely go out and just want something for a bit of enjoyment. My partner and I have the same agreement, if he wants to get something random, why not I say. My argument is he could be p*ssing it up in the pub every night which a lot of guys do, so if you aren't that kinda guy, want something to break the monotony at home for a bit of headspace, even if money is a bit tight, I say go for it.

If I was a wife with a new iPhone or buying stuff that made me feel better then it should go both ways. I think this just needs to be a very calm discussion to help her understand where you're coming from.

Good luck with it.

sheepondrugs

With 2 yr old and a baby on the way that pool table is just going to be a dumping ground/changing station/large ornament very soon. I can already picture it piled with clothes, cots , toys etc

The average semi d has 3-4 rooms downstairs so to use up one for a pool table is crazy. And I love pool. But these things are a bit of craic for a while then usage ineveitably tapers off.

AmberKat

I think people are forgetting that with a baby on the way it's highly possible that when on maternity leave there will be less money coming in. So while €500 might not seem like a lot, to some people, it's better to have it in cash than a pool table.

You can't compare the iphone and pool table on cost alone, without considering their full impact. Changing the purchase to a furniture or a bike, changes the discussion. Context is everything!

The priorities they are putting on things is also important, wife seems to have bills, necessities, saving for the future and then luxuries covered but OP wants to skip saving for the future and spend on a luxury.

If money is tight and going to be tighter when she is on maternity leave neither purchase is financially sensible. But maybe the money was spent on the phone before she knew she was pregnant we don't know.

If your wife only earns slightly more than you but is doing the majority of the saving then I can 100% understand why she would be frustrated that you can't find the money to save for your future together but you can find it for a pool table.

She is probably just worried about how you'll both pay for everything when the second child arrives. Sit and talk to her, agree a plan and what your priorities are as a family unit. Part of this should what luxuries each of you want and why, as everyone deserves a bit of a treat.

Nekarsulm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112369#Comment_118112369

Forget buying a pool table for the house.

On your walk with your son bring him to a pool room and a a few games in peace.

Patches oHoulihan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118112369#Comment_118112369

And so you should be. Your kids are your kids and you should want to be there for them.

You can't use fatherhood as an excuse for buying a pool table.

I think you need to mature a little. Both of you. On the money front. You are are family now not a pair of house mates.

You won't have time for pool with 2 kids anyway

skallywag

OP, I think that you are getting a really hard time on this thread.

A lot of the criticism aimed at you must be coming from people who have no kids themselves, or who just happen to have an axe to grind for one reason or another.

Unless the room has been already earmarked for something else then I would say by all means get the pool table. I would pay no attention to the 'sure you won't have time anyway' or the 'your poor wife will have to put up with you playing' etc' arguments. When we were expecting kids we frequently encountered the exact same mantra from others, but guess what, you can actually still have hobbies / interests / friends etc. while you have kids. In fact I would actively encourage you both to do so.

Sure, things will not always work out as you plan, and you will find yourself having to spontaneously change plans and cancel (or abandon!) a game from time to time due to the kids, but that's just going to be the haphazard nature of things anyway now with a couple of small kids in the house. If it is something that will help you relax from time to time, and there are currently no other plans for the room, then I see it as positive thing. It is very important to keep outside interests going as much as as is still possible, as much as for your own mental health as anything else. In the same sense I would think it just as important for your wife also to have such outlets.

It is also not as if you are planning to bolt it to the ground using steel and concrete. If it does happen to turn out that the room really needs to be otherwise used, or if you find that you have no time for it etc. then just simply get rid of it.

rolling boh

Besides the room maybe the wife is afraid the room will become a lads room pool is surely best played with two people kind of boring playing on his own . If pals start coming over with drinks etc it might get messy .

Big Bag of Chips

A number of off topic and irrelevant posts deleted rather than handing out cards and warnings. All posters unfamiliar with the standard of posting expected in the Personal Issues Forum are asked to read The Forum Charter.

Due to the nature of posts here this is a heavily moderated forum and breaches of the charter regularly result is warnings up to and including bans.

Jequ0n

….

Neyite

Firstly, can you rule out that she freaked because she's already ordered one for your Christmas for that room and if you go buy one now, it'll ruin the surprise? My BIL is a divil for that - getting himself a new hankered-for gadget in the Black Friday sale that his wife already has got him for his Christmas. So, just in case, maybe best to hold off until after Christmas?

But if I'm being overly optimistic here - When you get into the realms of home ownership and shared parenting costs within your relationship, all income is family money and there should never be a situation where one partner has lots of discretionary income and the other has far less. Whatever way you want to set up your income and outgoings in a way that suits best, ultimately it should be fair to both and have priorities you both agree on.

In your case, it's about priorities really - she's focused on the money being put towards the kids, you want something nice for you and where those both land in terms of priorities for you needs to be discussed. Myself and OH are similar - he wants a massive fish tank, but for now, our priority needs to be things like getting an electrician to sort out a few bits, or other essential housey things. So he'll be waiting a while for the tank. But he's happy to wait to get the setup he wants rather than the small one we can afford right now. When we moved, I finally got my dream of a sewing room. But as it also doubles as his workspace working from home now, I needed to ensure that my hobby only takes up half of the room and give him an appropriate office space.

The other thing might be that she's not keen due to timing - having your mate Dave stroll past her to the fridge for a beer when she's getting to grips with breastfeeding could be an issue? Or just worried that you'll have people over until the early hours keeping her/babies awake?

So is there room for compromise here? Like, she may not be keen on losing a room in the house to a pool table but would she be up for you doing a man-cave in the garden and if so, while you might need to park the idea for a few years until you've the money for the shed, but maybe you could plan a better set up (a bar/keg /tv to go with it😉) if you did?

I do think that while it sounds nice, other posters have a good point about the kids being older - a nice pool table would get destroyed with kids, and add into the fact a toddler dropping a ball on tiles or lobbing it at a wall/window/lamp is almost inevitable.

So I'd just talk to her first - find out what her reasons are for not being keen on it. That is, unless you are getting an awesome Christmas present??

The pool table is an investment in you alone, occupying one substantial room in the house. The hotel night would be intended by your wife as an investment in your relationship. She is otherwise focussing in investing in your and her children. Do you see who alone gets the benefit of the pool table?

I’m not saying you don’t deserve to have something nice for yourself, but just for one moment turn around the argument to put yourself in her shoes. Supposing she were a bit of a table tennis enthusiast and decided to take over that room to install a table to play with her buddies, and she got to the idea in before you mentioned the pool table and said she really would like to have it there for the next few years. How might you feel about it? Would you say “go ahead honey, you deserve that, I’ll allow your wish to be my priority”? This is the type of question you have to ask yourself and you have the answer.

Whatever you negotiate, don’t let a pool table or anything like that come seriously between you, your wife and your family. You are all too important together to do that. I do hope you can get out and about a bit for your pastime, you deserve your leisure as does she.

riclad

It sounds like your working part time your wife is working full time so she has a right to buy an iPhone you don't go out much your wife wants to go away for a night to a hotel I think you should simply say I'd like to buy a pool table how do you feel so you think it's selfish or rude for me to do so try and be calm about it

So you will soon have 2 kids

I think it's a bit strange to buy a Pool table that takes up most space in the front room

Unless the house is very big most people have a sofa tv chairs in the front room couples would spend most of the time in the front room maybe watching TV using a laptop eg the living room is the main room used

Unless you have another large room like a lounge it seems strange to me

I know some people have chairs in the kitchen another TV pc etc

Maybe she thinks she will be left alone while you play pool with friends

just as she will need more coparenting help when the baby arrives I think you can afford to buy a table as you don't go out much

A Pool table is not like a pc games console it'll take up most of the room it sounds like the room is not being used much right now for some reason

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118142175#Comment_118142175

Maybe the wife plays pool and the OP hates nights away in a hotel? You make an awful lot of assumptions in your post. Maybe the OP wants something in the house for the 2 of them to do in the evenings together that isn't sitting in front of the TV?

We had a pool table at home in a room that wasn't used for anything else. It was used by everyone and we had some great family evenings there. Meant people are sitting round and talking rather than just watching TV.

Why do so many posts here assume that women don't play pool?

notAMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144466#Comment_118144466

The assumption is that this particular woman, the OPs wife, does not play pool, because she said she doesn’t want a pool table.

Reasonable enough I think…

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144492#Comment_118144492

The vast majority of posts on this thread are based on nothing but assumptions, many of which the OP tried to refute.

While a different perspective can often be useful there has been a whole gang of people here who seem very certain to know what the OP’s wife really thinks and meant, which is simply not true.

The only thing he can do is to talk to her to find out what the real issue is, if money was just an excuse.

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144492#Comment_118144492

Not wanting a pool table in your house does not mean you don't play pool. I don't want a snooker table in my house but I do play snooker. A lot of posts have said the only way he'd use it is by inviting friends over. Maybe he'd like to play with her.

Again id say the wife should be clear on what her argument is. If its OK for her to spend 1000 euro on a phone and a few 100 on a hotel night away then I'd say money isn't the real issue. If she is afraid of losing the room then she should say that. If she is afraid of losing connection with her husband because he spends his free time playing pool then she should say that.

The OP already does most of the household chores and 50% of the parenting tasks so people saying she is afraid of being left to do everything alone dont really have anything to base that on.

Deregos.

Was in a similar position many years ago, thinking back now I realise it was actually a bit of peer pressure from my mate's who first made the suggestion. I felt that I bowed down to my wife at the time for the sake of peace but looking back again, I should never have been put my friends interest above that of my wife and children in the first place.

Wonder if the OP has any mates on his side egging him on?

I'm with my wife 30 years. I don't know how much she makes, I don't care. We have separate accounts and joint accounts, she happens to pay for a lot of things for the house, I happen to pay for the mortgage, but that just happened organically rather than by arrangement or agreement. I just regard everything I have as hers and vice versa. If we're, say, staying in a hotel, and paying, it's whoever has their wallet out.

Maybe it's a generational thing, maybe our financial planning isn't great, but I find all this "she earns 15% less than me but I pay 30% more of the crèche fees" all very cold and clinical. Almost like preparing for the divorce and financial split during the marriage. I can't remember a row over money.

As for the pool table, it takes up a room, I'd let it go, there are more important events in your future.

Keyzer

She's right on this one hombre... If money's a little tight and she's doing the majority of the saving then its a bit of a slap in the face to rock in with a pool table....

LillySV

Ok haven’t read anything other than the first few comments in this thread so maybe all is solved and I’m late to the game..???

anyways just writing to say that a pool table left in the house we were buying was a main condition of sale! Was really good expensive one..: great novelty … took up most of one room but what harm… I’d play it every nite … then after a couple of weeks we found that the joys of playing it was gone … no one had any real interest and it was being used to leave clothes and other crap on…. A dirty dumping ground ….in the end we sold it and got another big room back … less of a mess to look at … best thing I ever did! The novelty of owning one of there lad wears away quick ….