Kieran Creaven at it again..

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118336032#Comment_118336032

I don’t think that manslaughter case is really comparable to cases which involve systematic planning and grooming. There also doesn’t seem to have been a paedophile angle.

I agree that Creaven has shown that he is not fit to live outside confinement and should be locked up.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118336807#Comment_118336807

Yeh fully agree with most of that. At the end of the day it's always the victim who is left short when it comes to justice. Nothing can bring back a child or restore innocence etc but some of the custodial terms are farcical. Just another kick for the victims or families. Just read up on what the hurler did and how he went about it. Thought he may have just sent a photo unwittingly to a female. Looks as if he were fully aware of age and it was proper attempt at soliciting images of a child. Disgusting.

BlockPartee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118337388#Comment_118337388

Do you have a source? How many other predators are lurking online never to be caught. I say well done to the paedo hunters.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118337388#Comment_118337388

Strictly speaking he didn’t send any pictures to a teenage girl but a group of adults though, but I hear what you are saying.

There is something very thuggish about the group though. They could simply let police handle the whole arrest and questioning without the videoed confrontation, but then they’d lose out on a heroic video to promote themselves.

I am sure the police would prefer to catch him off guard without having had the additional thinking time to try to get his story right. This will, one day, backfire.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118339523#Comment_118339523

Not to mention microwave his harddrive.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118339523#Comment_118339523

Just the same point repeated over and over. Creavan is off the streets. This lad is now off the streets and on a radar that he wasn't on previously. The videos seem to be what people are worried about while children are being raped

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340288#Comment_118340288

He should be investigated, but not judged by the public before evidence has even been evaluated.

Yes, the videos are a bad precedent and of course worrying. I take it all you have never been accused of a crime you didn’t commit?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340288#Comment_118340288

That wasn't about Creavan. It was about a different infividual who was given time to destroy evidence that might lead to said kids being made safer, but hey - if you think it's more important that a vigilante gets an ego boost, that just you.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340416#Comment_118340416

Why are you so upset by paedophiles being caught? If it wasn't for these groups more children would be raped. But hey video something something. Some very strange attitudes on display on this thread.

Saving the kids is number 1. Everything else is secondary. If the police were doing it then there would be no space for these groups

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341437#Comment_118341437

Are you saying that if a crime against a child or teenager is suspected every means should be deemed legal and, executable by anyone?

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341530#Comment_118341530

Where did I say that?

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341717#Comment_118341717

You didn’t, hence my question. It was based on this sentence: “Saving the kids is number 1. Everything else is secondary.”

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341732#Comment_118341732

Ok so a equally valid leading question would be whether you rather kids being raped or guys putting videos of sting operations where they have clear evidence of guilt.

You can only choose 1.

As I said bo one wants vigilantes but where Gardai/Police are not in that space then I am glad someone is doing it as the alternative is too tragic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341437#Comment_118341437

This man lived in wexford.

Is there some reason that this group didn't forward any evidence of a crime to the police? Even when they confronted him, he wasn't going to meet any child, he was going to a match. As far as I am aware, there was no suggestion of there being a meeting.

So, if a crime has been committed, then why didn't they go to the police with the evidence?

Do these groups do this with men worldwide? Are they going online, pretending to be children and engaging men in sexual talk? If these men are from different countries, then what is the end game?

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341761#Comment_118341761

But there is no “clear evidence of guilt” until this has been declared by a court.

The videoed material is nothing but allegations and accusations. There is zero benefit in uploading this, when they could just forward their findings to the police.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341816#Comment_118341816

just on the question of whether they’re engaging men (or women) in the conversations- there can be no conviction if YOU approach the suspect because it’s considered entrapment. They have to come to you.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341437#Comment_118341437

Strawman Arguments. First, the argument that I'm in upset at pedophiles being caught; second, the argument that I'm against the groups (I've said several times I'm against the confrontations).

I've explained in the post you reply to exactly how these confrontations undermine inveatigations and put the kids at risk.

MarkEadie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118341902#Comment_118341902

Pawwed Rig we are against THE STREAMED VIDEOS. Not sure why you have such a problem grasping this.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342356#Comment_118342356

The point I am making is which is the greater evil? A streamed video or a child being raped? If a streamed video is required to stop a child being raped would you still be against it?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342369#Comment_118342369

That's the porblem: it's not. You're just using it as justification for validting the viglantes' ego.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342413#Comment_118342413

If validating the ego of the guys who do this is the price to stop a child being raped are you against this?

Again which is the greater evil?

If the videos are the 'payment' these guys need it is cheap price to pay for society as compared to the cost of a Police operation (which seems to be outside of current budgets or else there would be no space for these guys).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342369#Comment_118342369

And what does the video of the wexford man do?

What did their 'sting' operation achieve?

MarkEadie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342369#Comment_118342369

You're going to continue to present a false argument no matter what anyone says to you. I wonder how far this logic in your head goes. If they beat up and killed the guys they capture (with extremely flawed methods and they have no proof at all that it's the same person who sent the messages) I'm guessing you'd be fine with that, "or would you rather a child was raped" etc.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342443#Comment_118342443

So do you only condone these types of vigilance if it refers to children? Or any crime? Where do you draw the line?

And what happens when the heroic vigilante group turns out to be wrong about a case? Who is then held accountable for a life having been destroyed?

Or when some associate of a perpetrator sees the video and deletes evidence, which leads to a guilty person walking free because of a lack of evidence?

To answer your question: a crime is a crime, it is irrelevant who the victim is. It should never give people the right to compromise a case by publishing details online before the matter could be dealt with by authorities.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118342443#Comment_118342443

I've answered all those questions in my last two posts: it's not because it doesn't, you don't have to actually have either evil, and police operations aren't helped unless they actually go to the police with the evidence so they don't inadvertently get in the police way.

Lads I think it’s safe to say y’all will never agree either way on this, but for myself I can definitely appreciate both sides of the argument, but in general I think it’s best to leave police work to the police.

do the police catch every pedo out there? No.

do these guys? No.

They’re existing or not is almost an irrelevance and in some cases, I’m sure, a detriment.

ask yourself this: if they’re so invaluable in catching predators, why don’t the police associate with them?

Garibaldi?

The self-styled paedophile hunter groups emerge as individuals with serious personal issues. The Garda Síochána is the body charged with the enforcement of law and order in this democracy. No individual and no group of individuals has the right to take the law into their own hands.

Can I ask a question here, maybe to break the impasse on the predator hunter thing but also quite a serious question - just so I get this straight.

There are millions of book face profiles. How could a predator from Ireland land on a UK based “sting” account?

Statistically it’s lotto numbers sort of success that they would land on such a profile? I’m just trying to figure a few things namely:

Are the predators targeting 100s or 1000s of minors?

Are there 1000s of Ireland based predators active on book face right now?

Do these predator capture groups target male accounts in general in the hope for a “bite” ?

Somethnig else?

Id like to understand the science and statistics behind these live stings just to try and get a handle on what exactly is happening. I’ve seen some of these sting videos in the past and in fact in the early days, a guy in the UK committed suicide a few days later as a result.

I always thought these were one off encounters or attempts and in fairness the courts dealt out punishment with that in mind, but after hearing about Creavan and what he did, I really do wonder just how many “attempts” a predator will try before they’re caught by these groups. Like I say, the number of profiles out there in UK and Ireland of that age group are in the millions

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

As fsr as I know, they pretend to be kids and wait until the pedos make contact with them. How long they have to 'fish' for is anyone's guess. Grooming can only be called if its the pedo making the moves. They (the pedophiles) definitely have to propose meeting up or its textbook entrapment and the vigilantes are in the wrong.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118343516#Comment_118343516

Yeah, they just make profiles with fake photos and whatnot they CANNOT be the first to contact and generally in the less **** versions (TCaP being my go to example) it’s the predator making all the suggestions where the decoy is usually answering very.. vaguely I guess? They have to be very careful not to say anything that could be looked on as entrapment or the whole things out the window