Kieran Creaven at it again..

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290877#Comment_118290877

So you are happy enough for them to do it but it is just the video that offends you?

They didn't screw anything up because without them Creaven is still walking around abusing kids.

Which is the greater evil?

1. A group of guys making a video OR

2. Kieran Creaven raping children?

I think we need a bit of perspective here. If a few guys publishing a video gets perverts off the street then I am all for it.

I assume you object to Panorama and Prime Time Investigates aswell?

I can't help thinking that people are more annoyed here that it is working class people (with actual accents ewww) doing these deeds than anything else. If it was a group of journalists with D4 accents they would be getting praised from all sides (and rightly so).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291719#Comment_118291719

It's not the video. It's the rules around evidence and arrest.

These people do not understand them, nor how easy it is for someone to get away with a crime because of some technicality.

That's why, once they have identified someone they believe to be a paedophile online, it is then that evidence should be brought to police, who will then go about collecting evidence and arresting people correctly.

I couldn't care less what background any vigilante comes from, I am 'working class' myself.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291762#Comment_118291762

The caught Kieran Creavan. How many times does it have to be said. Nothing else is relevant and if they do nothing else for the rest of their lives they have still helped countless children.

The rules around evidence are irrelevant as he was convicted in both Ireland and England.

He didn't get away with it because of a technicality.

On that basis they must have done everything right so maybe they are not as ignorant in the arts of evidence gathering as you are assuming. Working class people can be intelligent too.

Again, and I am repeating myself for the third time now, the police could easily have done the same thing but didn't. Therefore the police do not have the resources required. Thankfully for the safety of 100s of children these groups go do something about the issue rather than hand ringing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291821#Comment_118291821

I don’t know if you’re missing the point or not but if so

the point isn’t they did or didn’t catch him that’s indisputable however they could have handed the evidence to the police and done without the sting. They didn’t have to meet him, video tape it in order to mail him. The fact that he spoke sexually with a kid and arranged to meet them (going as far to fly to England) would be enough for an arrest.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291821#Comment_118291821

How many have they caught that did get away on technicalities?

What is your obsession with working class? I myself am working class. It's nothing to do with intelligence, it's knowledge of the law. Two very different things.

osarusan

These are the kind of spoofers we are dealing with.

Yes, they get it right some of the time, but they also get it wrong some of the time and don't give a **** either way as long as they get their publicity.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-43049316

The PPS assistant director told the BBC there are serious concerns about the methods used by the groups. "Inevitably the cases we are receiving are compromised for a couple of reasons," she said. "The first is the way the evidence is actually gathered by these individuals. They are essentially running covert undercover operations, which in the normal way would be conducted by police, that would be subject to very strict legal regulation and control, but those controls don't apply to the hunting groups. "So that immediately causes difficulty in relation to the integrity of the evidence and the way in which the inquiries are conducted.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/25/vigilante-paedophile-hunters-online-police

The Daemon Hunter vigilante who targeted Peter in Staffordshire used the slogan "Public against paedos". He pretended to be interested in his target on an adult dating site and they arranged to meet in a branch of Costa coffee. Peter thought he was meeting an 18-year-old, and insists he is not a paedophile or child groomer. Only when he was waiting in the cafe did a text come through saying "she" was 15 and that he immediately got up and left.

It was then that Daemon Hunter accosted him in the street, accused him of trying to meet a 15-year-old for sex, and chased him through town filming him. Peter told the Guardian: "He said: 'I think we need to talk because you're a **** paedophile.' I said: 'What do you mean mate? She's 18, that's what I was told. I've just had a text message up there saying she's 15 and that's why I've walked away.' Next thing I know he got his phone up filming me, calling me a paedophile, asking her age. I was shocked. He started shouting I was a paedophile in the middle of town. I thought 'I am going to get a kicking here' so I just legged it.

"Within hours, the vigilante uploaded footage of the sting on to the internet along with Peter's mobile number. That night his phone was jammed with abusive texts and voicemails, which he said included death threats.

So he fled north in his car, only returning when he thought the worst was over. Later, he said his house was hit with bricks and that his wife tried to kill herself with an overdose of pills. He was so scared he was reduced to hiding in a cupboard when the doorbell rang.

Staffordshire police reviewed the evidence and concluded there was no case for any prosecution, but the damage was done. More than 5,000 people viewed the film and Peter has now moved to the other side of the country, cut off from family, friends and work.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292016#Comment_118292016

Dunno. You tell me. It was you that raised the point that they are tainting cases. The burden of proof is yours.

The working class issue was raised by others on the thread calling them low lifes, ner do wells etc.

Galwayguy35

I wonder how many years of his 10 year sentence will Creaven actually serve?

The worrying thing is he probably still has money because he was in a well paid job and chances are he will leave Ireland when he is let out and could disappear to some Asian country where nobody will know who he is.

Munstergirl854

A bit odd that Tracey Piggot gave that interview to Prime Time saying she had no clue as his colleague..I wonder was it just damage control for RTE as they had to address it somehow...

Media is hot on this topic especially with the Ghislaine Maxwell trial,me too movement etc...

They must have read the room.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292427#Comment_118292427

Its usually automatic 25% off, if the prisoner behaves

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292406#Comment_118292406

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-43049316

There's 110 alone

There are laws, rules and procedures. The rule of law is there for a reason. To maintain a civil society. Otherwise we might as well progress to putting a tyre around their neck, filling it with kerosene and lighting it as they do in parts of Africa

Vigilantes are never a good idea in any circumstance I would argue. They've got a Salem witch trial tinge to them.

We have laws and procedures for a reason. You cant take the law into your own hands as the old saying goes. If you do the boundaries of what's right and wrong get left to individuals.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292466#Comment_118292466

They caught Kieran Creavan.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292514#Comment_118292514

A broken clock is right twice a day

You keep using that argument. It doesn't make it right, nor does it counter my argument. We don't have a "by any means necessary legal system".

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292444#Comment_118292444

So chances are he could be out in just over 7 years.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292548#Comment_118292548

So are you claiming that he is the only one that was caught by these groups?

BlockPartee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292427#Comment_118292427

Hopefully the bill will be passed to prevent Creaven and other sex offenders from travelling to these child sexual abuse tourism countries. I feel sick knowing there are 4.5 million children trafficked across the world.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2018/28/

"In 2017 it emerged that some 700 to 800 Australian male convicted child sex offenders were travelling annually to countries in South-East Asia such as the Philippines, Cambodia and Thailand. Following the revelation, the Australian Government acted by passing the Passports Legislation Amendment (Overseas Travel by Child Sex Offenders) Act in 2017. It was introduced in the Australian Parliament on 14 June 2017, passed by both Houses on 20 June and received assent on 26 June 2017"

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292466#Comment_118292466

Vigilantes only ever rise up and exist due to the fact that the 'authorities' have either neither the resources or the inclination to do the job that they are supposed to be doing. This is and has always been the case. It's the exact same with this case.

Pointless blaming the Vigilantes. They are nothing but a result of shoddy management. The same shoddy management that oversees the "laws, rules and bureaucratic procedures" that can also get it utterly wrong, just like the Salem Witch trials, just ask the Guilford Four and the Birmingham Six.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292602#Comment_118292602

No im not. You can't take the law into your own hands especially when you have no skin in the game.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118290975#Comment_118290975

Because they get lots of likes, views, compliments, nice comments & are called legends and diamonds. Also, people like to see the squirming perv's emotional waterfall throughout the interview... starting with indignant denial, then pure horror when evidence is shown, feigned sickness, shock, anger... will the fight or flight? They also seem to get other decoys contact them during the live video to say they also have the perv's grooming them.

Basically, they feel good doing what they're doing. They're facing evil (albeit one that doesn't hit back usually) for the good of the children, they hold the higher and complete moral ground and they want people to know.

Aside from all that, and thankfully, peadophiles are being arrested because of them.

They have the worst names ever. Cobra, Scorpion, wolf pack, dark justice. 😬

archer22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289600#Comment_118289600

Most of them have girlfriends or even a wife there that they met on legitimate dating sites and are perfectly innocent people doing no harm to anybody.

"rampant industrialised child sex abuse" utter nonsense!...a few hundred scumbags operating in dark corners is not "industrialised child sex abuse".In fact you could live your entire life in the Philippines and not encounter this activity, those who do find it are those who go to a lot of trouble to find it.

And its not tolerated there either, those scumbags who are caught by the Philippines Police and brought before the courts can forget about their "human rights".

Lets not slander an entire nation of 110 million people because of the actions of a few criminals with no morals...same for the people who go there.

Yakov P. Golyadkin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292555#Comment_118292555

Six and a half as per RTE last week, I'm not 100% sure but iirc he's been in prison since his arrest so that time is taken off the sentence in addition to the aforementioned remission.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292670#Comment_118292670

Well, the sentence starts from the time he went into custody, so not really taken off, but remission of 25% is very high.

Yakov P. Golyadkin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292686#Comment_118292686

Yeah, 'taken off' wasn't the right expression.

Apparently the remission is to encourage good behaviour in prison - Don't do anything too bad and you'll get a quarter off. It really should be reconsidered.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118291867#Comment_118291867

Indeed, what is the point of the live streaming on Facebook and then leaving the video up there? It seems the very raison d'etre of the vigilante groups is this part - they're doing it for the 'likes' and comments on social media and the adulation of their fellow chavs. Why would it need a live audience?

Also, there is a big risk of innocent people being labelled perverts online and with absolutely no comeback against the vigilantes if it happens. Trial by social media and long before the police have even have had a chance to investigate.

osarusan

Not only is there a risk of innocent people beling labelled paedophiles, but there's also the risk that actual paedophiles get away with something because these hunters don't know how the laws and courts work, and they get off on a technicality. There's also the risk that after being confronted, they head home and delete crucial evidence off their devices.

No doubt they can get good results, but they get bad results also.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292678#Comment_118292678

Why don't we just shoot them on sight? We will both agree that the world is better off without people like him. So why bother with the law at all?

Of course I don't want scum like him on the street, but i dont want vigilantes either.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292845#Comment_118292845

Shooting them on site is not something I would personally advocate but it would be the desirable outcome for a good portion of people.

My point is that vigilantes are by far the lesser of the 2 evils here. And at the risk of repeating myself for the 4th or 5th time they would not exist if we had an adequate police force.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292670#Comment_118292670

So he will be out when he is in his mid 60s, still not an really old man and the time he was locked up is nothing compared to the life sentence his victims have to endure.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118292873#Comment_118292873

Yes. I understand your argument and you can repeat it again if you wish, but it doesn't make it right.

By that logic, Paddy Jackson should have got some mob justice because in the eyes of many the Justice system failed.

You can't shoot Creaven when he's released because the justice system failed us by letting him out after 6 or 7 years.

Pawwed Rig

Paddy Jackson was found not guilty. Don't see the comparison. Also we are not talking about mob justice. We are talking about a sting operation where no one was hurt and a person was handed over to the police