Why do Landlords feel entitled to rent increases?

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207745#Comment_118207745

I am not saying FF/FG are not to blame

I am just saying the issue will not be resolved at the moment because the opposition want the housing crisis to stay as long as possible because it helps their chances to get into government. Hence why they object to every housing they possible can. If they can block it they will and they will continue to do so while everyone doesn't say anything.

Central Bank fell asleep at the wheel and hence why you had a crash with people having mortgages way above what they could pay, this nearly crashed the entire banking system in Ireland. They haven't made it difficult, they have made it the way it should have been all along. 100% mortgages should never have been an option for anyone.

If you want change and change quickly, then any houses been built should not be held up by any government party because of political tactics.

Lia_lia

We’ve been in our rental house for 8 years and our landlady has never raised the rent. We are paying well below market value. So grateful as it’s allowed us save for a deposit to buy our own house.

jface187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208515#Comment_118208515

I'm so happy for you. I wish there were more people like this.

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208869#Comment_118208869

Why? when landlords couldn't let properties and struggled to pay mortgages I didn't see tenants all over Ireland coming together to help them out, that was only a few years ago.

Now the tables have turned and suddenly landlords are supposed to help out tenants? who at every turn will try screw over the landlord anyway.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208515#Comment_118208515

That is great for you and I am sure your LL is happy that you are there. However you said that you are saving for a deposit and so will move out. The next tenant (who could be an absolute gowler) will now benefit from your good tenancy. The LL has let themselves get into a position that they may now be stuck with a problem tenant paying a bargain basement rent.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118206607#Comment_118206607

I find it hard to believe it wasnt actually designed to get rents up and REITs in and a nice tax wedge for revenue in at the same time, while proclaiming they were doing it for the common man.

Kind of like electricity prices had to increase to get outsiders interested and then they kept going up.

Back when they brought in rent controls it was as obvious as the nose on your face that it was going to drive rents up. There were hundreds of studies from places where rent controls came in that prices only go up.

They had lots of opportunities to reverse it, but hammered more nails in to get rents up again.

Total farce and a total hoodwink of the Irish tax payer.

rightmove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118205351#Comment_118205351

I very much doubt your pushy LL story. The only push at the moment is for to resign from being LL coz its not worth it. You need a bit more than unsubstantiated "Ive seen" stories

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209683#Comment_118209683

not only that you can be sure that landlord has no sinking fund for major repairs on the building. When they bring in a new rule on standards the landlord won't be able to rent it out without a massive cost. To an extent landlords are lucky there is a housing crisis as it stopped the govenrnment bringing in a minimum BER rating for rent as was their original plan and on the back burner at the moment. I have external insulation and triple glazing on a property. That is better than my own house.I am actually lucky a tenant is leaving as she finally got on the housing list where she is due a property now only been there 35 years and pays below half the market rate.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209957#Comment_118209957

Its the truth. Take it or leave it.

This is a pseudonymous message board, not an RTB investigation.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118208869#Comment_118208869

Landlords who shoot themselves in the foot and forever devalue their own property by not charging the market rate?

I know that sounds awful and I'd love if people could have lower rents, but sadly, the way the government have put rental increase caps in place, it's impossible to 'be nice' as a landlord at he moment without severely damaging your own financial position.

jface187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209200#Comment_118209200

You seemed really triggered by the fact I'm happy about this is situation. That a Landlord and tenant have mutual beneficial relationships and how I wish this was the norm for everyone. Very odd reaction.

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135277#Comment_118135277

Renting privately ought not to be a strictly temporary arrangement for most, as you suggest. People's financial circumstances differ. Some are in poorly paid employment, some are unable to work due to illness and there is a general shortage of housing. Take the HAP. Are you aware that the average waiting period for a single person with no dependants to secure council accommodation is twelve years? Why would any private landlord have reservations about accepting HAP tenants? They would not be losing out financially compared to tenanting those working full time and the system for weeding out potential troublesome tenants is more strictly enforced by the local authorities these days. With regard to property the Irish are greedy and have this obsession about owning their own homes - in stark contrast to continental countries. Ultimately, it is this demand for a non-existent supply that drives up prices.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210729#Comment_118210729

I suppose it's the way you're blatantly skipping over the fact that it's really only beneficial to the tenant, the landlord is losing money and in future, won't be able to raise the rent higher than the yearly cap - meaning the property will forever be stuck lagging far behind the market rate as a rental unit and will lose value as a result.

jface187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210818#Comment_118210818

We don't know the situation. But the OP & LL are happy. Surely we can all agree that a situation where a tenant can pay the rent and save money for a deposit plus the Landlord is happy, is something that we all want to be the norm?

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210764#Comment_118210764

In a perfect world you are absolutely correct however where a HAP recipient defaults and you get an order against them they are less likely to have any assets of significant worth to give a sheriff also the local authorities during the last downturn reduced the payments without notice a couple of times and effectively told LLs to FO.

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210729#Comment_118210729

Triggered? seriously

Just pointing out when landlords struggled I didn't see any tenants creating a thread offering to give them more money. Now the tables have turned it seems tenants want landlords to reduce rents to suit them. Nothing triggered about that.

As people pointed out above the LL with the reduced rent is just going to end up at a loss at the end of the day, I am sure the current tenant who is gaining from the reduced rent won't offer a penny to help them out either.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210852#Comment_118210852

Of course, nobody is disagreeing with that. However it's a pretty uncommon situation - for 'more' situations to arise like this (which you'd like to see), most landlords would have to take a financial hit, basically redirect their income back into the tenants bank account instead to help them pay for a deposit.

If that's what a landlord wants to do, fair enough - it's not really how businesses function and stay afloat though.

spaceHopper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210764#Comment_118210764

I've no problem if a tenants circumstance change and they need to apply for rent allowance or HAP, it's just that using private rental accommodation for social housing is broken, it bad value for the state and tax payer and it insecure for tenants. It's causing more problems that it solves, we should have restarted state backed building of social housing 15 or 20 years ago.

Lots of LL's have had bad experiences with HAP and social welfare tenants, look at it another way, if it was such a great experience they wouldn't have to legislate to make it mandatory.

The average waiting period is my concern as I said renting should be short term in nature, there shouldn't be a long waiting list. All the private LL's in the country isn't going to fix it. The root cause is not enough social housing and that's what needs to be fixed.

There are plenty of threads here where HAP and council tenants have stopped paying and the council won't deal with the LL. Also a few where the council rented a house from a LL then as soon as there was a problem the council walked away and left the LL to deal with the tenata when there was a contract between the LL and the Council and not the LL and tenant.

With stories like that if I didn't know the tenant I wouldn't risk it.

Our obsession with home ownership come from our history, a lot of families suffered at the hands of English LL's and it's lead to a desire to own a home nobody can evict you from. Also renting in the EU is properly regulated, the way it's gotten so out of hand here is down to our government and I'd never advise anybody to rent for life, it's to risky

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118210764#Comment_118210764

You aren't aware of landlord's experience dealing with state payments. If the tenant decides not to fill in the paper work along the way the rent stops getting paid. The tenant doesn't care as they know how hard it is to kick them out and drag their feet just to annoy the landlord. They have done this to elderly relatives who let them do what they liked. More than once to more than one landlord.

When rent dropped the government reduced HAP and made landlords accept it even with signed leases. Then they capped rent increases while increase taxes and expenses. Why would any landlord trust the government on state paid rent is the real question?

Does any of that let you see why a landlord wouldn't want HAP?

rightmove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209994#Comment_118209994

I leave it so. 😏

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211574#Comment_118211574

Grand but I'll just point out that people share personal anecdotes on these boards all the time.

You accuse me of fabricating and ask for verification because it interferes with the group sulk about how all landlords are hard done by.

rightmove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211597#Comment_118211597

you protest too much. I knew it was a porky to start with

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211610#Comment_118211610

I am continually protesting because you are continually calling me a liar, which I'm not.

Stop replying to me and I'll stop replying to you.

"Why do tenants feel entitled to a property for a cheaper rate than others are willing to pay for it?"

FTFY

jface187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211094#Comment_118211094

There is plenty of threads on here about Land lord problems. The OP and I are in similar situation.

I'm able to have sympathy for a LL losing money over time, but I have more sympathy for someone like myself on the verge of being homelessness.

I think as a society and by your posts you see nothing wrong with that. You Clearly have a capitalist, negative outlook on life.

Lia_lia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118209683#Comment_118209683

Very good point but this house needs some structural work done to it and I wouldn’t be surprised if she does some renovations at the same as she has a few builders in the family. Thus meaning she’ll be able to up the price once we go.

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211444#Comment_118211444

... but the tenant is required to submit the required paperwork in advance of being approved and, therefore, before any payment is received. Is that not the case? The landlord must also provide written proof of tax compliance and registration with the RTB. It is curious that the HAP is paid to the tenant who then passes it on to the landlord as part of the monthly rent rather than directly to the landlord. If that were the case the system would surely be less open to abuse by unscrupulous tenants.

Mad_maxx

you almost make it sound like a " capitalist outlook " is a bad thing ?

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118211912#Comment_118211912

Why do you accuse of of having a negative outlook on life?? because I am not telling you what you want to hear?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215175#Comment_118215175

It depends though.

'Market rent' is skyrocketing because of a supply shock yet some posters are implying that rent inflation struggles to match other forms of inflation.

With the exception of this year's energy prices, which may not be repeated year on year in the future, I don't see it.

So are we talking about reaping the maximum profits from a supply shock, way over and above wage inflation?

Because if so I fail to see why LLs should be the focus of intense sympathy, as they seem to be on this forum.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215279#Comment_118215279

landlords have to maximise rent , the sector is highly regulated and biased towards tenants in terms of rights so if they encounter a rogue tenant , they face years of zero income at all

a landlord needs to build a war chest while he or she can

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118213981#Comment_118213981

it is not like it is a once off they have to do the forms every year. Whether you want to accept it or not HAP and all other rent payments are more hassle for landlords. You also ignored what they did when rents went down. Landlords don't want it for many reasons and you also wonder why they don't like it. You got answers and obviously never ever dealt with it yourself so as the people providing rentals are telling you it isn't all great like you think. That is it

Blue4u

I was just driving yesterday and a Dublin bus pulled iup beside me. Huge ad in the bus with "Do you have a bad landlord" or something similar. Then a load of items a "bad" landlord might do with information on how to report them

Now has anyone ever seen something similar for a landlord?

At this moment the tenant has all the power and the LL none, plus the public seems to think they have the right to treat LL like dirt. Good on any of them who can make a few quid

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215373#Comment_118215373

The sector is biased towards large institutional investors who can borrow at 0% finance, operate at thin profit margins due to their scale and absorb shocks like the occasional bad tenant. Plus their tax advantage.

(A normal tenant just doesn't need the level of protection given to dishonest problem tenants.)

But these wealth consolidation schemes and deliberately pushing small players out of the market is standard Yankee capitalism, taking place across multiple industries.

That is what FG and FF are all about.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215512#Comment_118215512

If you break the law and exploit people you are bad. Many tenants lack the experience and confidence to stick up for themselves

When did the public treat LLs like dirt? I don't see what hurt feelings have to do with price gouging.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215521#Comment_118215521

You give FF and FG far too much credit if you think they planned or could pull off something like that , the large institutions as a factor are a legacy of the crash where we were begging for someone to enter the market , certainly overly favourable carrots were offered .

the onerous conditions heaped on landlords are due to pressure from NGO,s , media and various left wing activists

both combine to give us the mess we currently have

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215574#Comment_118215574

When did the public treat LL like dirt? just look at the press, just look at the some of the "TD's", look across social media etc.

Nobody is price gouging. The rent is at the rate based on the market. Tenants wanted all the right, they got them but forgot that meant most LL got screwed over and left the market. You can't have rental properties without LL.

Now you have a rental market which hasn't enough properties for the people looking for them, supply and demand.

Everyone told tenants and everyone else for years all the new regulations been forced on LL would drive them out of the market, it happened. Crying over spilt milk comes to mind.

As I said when LL had it rough for years and struggled to pay the bills I didn't see everyone runnig around to help them or set up organisations with advertisements on buses. Did you?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215579#Comment_118215579

FG and FF didn't favour corporate capitalism by accident.

Or if they did are they going to reverse course now that it's obvious what's happening? Or are left-wing activists twisting their arm?

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215521#Comment_118215521

The big companies are not pushing out the smaller players. The Irish tenants are the ones pushing them out. If the "normal tenant" didn't want all the new regulations then why did they call for them and have TD's jumping up and down for years looking for them?

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215618#Comment_118215618

there is a place for institutional investors in the market , the likes of Germany has them , there is also a necessary place for small investors and REIT,s etc dont want to own property in Clonmel etc

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215618#Comment_118215618

One of the main finding out of the crash was Ireland didn't have a large scale rental system like most other European cities. The recommendations from Central Bank, ECB etc was to put that in place. Which is what they did.

At the same time you had the Irish tenants demanding all sorts of new regulations so they could do whatever the f**k they wanted without getting thrown out. Cue People before Profit/Sinn Fein etc all runnig around demanding these with the backing of Irish people. They got these given to them.

FF & FG gave the Irish people what they wanted

jrosen

Landlords are operating a business and will take full advantage of the supply V demand when they can. The market will change at some point forcing rents to fall and landlords will have no choice but to follow suit.

There is no incentive to keep rents low for your tenants. You are effectively screwing yourself over.

growleaves

FF and FG were the unwitting servants of PBP/Sinn Fein who represent the people?

I presume you'll still be voting for these FF and FG TDs who brought in this legislation then? They don't bear any agency for the laws they've brought in?

As I said most tenants want some protection from huge price shocks, stolen deposits etc - most ordinary people have too much self-respect to be a dog-in-the-manger not paying any rent. Do you really disagree?

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215718#Comment_118215718

Did I say FF & FG are the servants of PBP and Sinn Fein?

I pointed out earlier during the biggest increase in homelessness and rents in Dublin, Sinn fein ran DCC and ran it into the ground. Building no properties and to this day will reject any housing when possible. It is not in SF interests for the housing crisis to be resolved. During that time DCC rent arrears built to over 33m. That 33m could and should have been used to build houses

I don't know who I will vote for next time, it is 4 years off and a lot of water to go under the bridge by then.

Not sure what the last paragraph is about as it doesn't make any sense. You have yet to discuss any of the points I made which I guess you realise are 100% correct. if the best you can come up with is pointing at FF & FG and thinking they are the root of all problem I think are sadly mistaken. Yes they have some of the blame but plenty more issues. Lots sitting with the irish tenant themselves

growleaves

Let's recap what we've learned.

Right so the media, NGOs, left-wing activists, PBP, Sinn Fein, DCC and the Irish Tenant are forcing small LLs to rent to problem tenants who won't pay - pushing up operating costs in lieu of reserve capital.

FF and FG are passive bystanders both in the past and the present. All they do is write and enact legislation but they aren't the source of it. Nor are large institutional investors who stand to gain the most.

Small LLs have taken their ball and gone home but the ones who haven't should ride the supply shock as far as it'll go, it's what they deserve after being given poor treatment. Except they're only doing it to cover operating costs.

Do I have that all correct?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215881#Comment_118215881

Only in your mind.

jface187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215230#Comment_118215230

No. Your posts point to you being older, home owner and/or maybe a landlord?I could be wrong.

You paint a picture in your posts of someone very defensive and worse case scenario in your own head.

When I congratulate some for saving for a deposit because LL kept rent reasonable, you seem enraged by this idea and painted a picture of a LL not getting maximum profits and how awful that is.

You come across very much a capitalist and not much empathy for people being homelessness.

People like that just have a negative, I'm all right jack vibe to them. Just how you come across to me.

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215899#Comment_118215899

I am not enraged by anything as you keep suggesting. I have just provided an explanation. One which you don't like so you post the garbage above.

I don't know you to make any personal comments.

jface187

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118216311#Comment_118216311

I don't know you either and as I said it's a vibe I get from your posts.

You haven't really provided an explanation. You just keep saying LL should get maximum profits because they can. As to the original posters point we need laws to stop massive rip offs from LL. I know sentiment on here is that LL are the victims and tenants are to powerful. I feel as a tenant, I have no power and at the LL mercy, who will keep increasing as much as they can.

Maybe smaller LL have it tough compared to the big boys, that a point, I'm not sure on. Smaller LL might be getting out now due to red tape or the massive profits they can make selling. Either way no LL is facing homelessness at the moment.

Blue4u

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118217073#Comment_118217073

I suggest you actually read people posts. If you feel you have no power then you are wrong. The regulations and laws are all with the tenant and I posted above an organisation for tenants who is advertising on buses.

Laws are already in place to stop "massive rip offs from LL".

You keep throwing out homelessness, not sure why but I expect you are hoping for a reaction. I think you actually don't understand the issue in Ireland and I doubt you ever did anything to help the people in those situations.